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russian armor

AT infantry for OKW?

7 Feb 2018, 11:28 AM
#21
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 88

Honestly one shrek on your sturm squad is actually quite fine. as if you got two then you get super reps super fast, and this would be to powerful.
Two sturms are quite the investment but are worth it as well to push off mobilized assaults

Also your rektington is probably your best option on taking on tanks and light vehicles with your volk's snare. your AT weapons are really awesome, and grow extremely powerful to extreme satisfication when the penetrate a gaping hole into the enemies most precious and valued units

As I have stated before, good players support their vehicles with infantry (Allies infantry are beasts, let's face it) so when they see my SP or volks running up to get a shot, they will focus fire on that squad while reversing their vehicle, this makes it extremely difficult to counter any kind of vehicle play

The only effective use of raketens, from my experience, is to build 2 or more of them then either cloak-cap the map or blob them together to cheese enemy vehicles by volleys of ambushing rockets
7 Feb 2018, 11:50 AM
#22
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 88



Typical response.

Allied blobs nearly aren't as powerfull against german armor because of the difference between penetration rates and heavier german armor values(Panzershreck pens waaaay more frequently than the M9 and PTRS). Not to mention rifles and penals are more expensive to build and reinforce, something that the volksgrens dont have as a downside.

Zooks are actually quite powerful right now, even better when massed

And you know, SPs are more expensive to build and reinforce compared to Allies front line infantry, USF and UKF players don't have to equip rifles and sections with handheld ATGs, they can equip their engineers and still get the job done
7 Feb 2018, 12:27 PM
#23
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374


As I have stated before, good players support their vehicles with infantry (Allies infantry are beasts, let's face it) so when they see my SP or volks running up to get a shot, they will focus fire on that squad while reversing their vehicle, this makes it extremely difficult to counter any kind of vehicle play

The only effective use of raketens, from my experience, is to build 2 or more of them then either cloak-cap the map or blob them together to cheese enemy vehicles by volleys of ambushing rockets


First off you are making excuses about "good players do (insert play here)". It's as if you are saying that axis isn't able to do so in return. You also shoot yourself in the foot by stating that "good players do (x)" making it seem that you are not a good player.

A shrek alone has a lot of alpha compared to allied AT guns with the acception of the piat.

Anyway, just making excuses seems like you don't want to help and just want to argue for the sake of arguing. As if you don't want any sort of help what so ever. Making this entire thread more or less pointless.
7 Feb 2018, 12:27 PM
#24
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

how about a tank hunter upgrade for volks that gives them 2 shrek's and the remaining 3 guys get wher pioneer mp40's to make them useless in ai, so they become a sole AT sqaud
7 Feb 2018, 12:30 PM
#25
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808



First off you are making excuses about "good players do (insert play here)". It's as if you are saying that axis isn't able to do so in return. You also shoot yourself in the foot by stating that "good players do (x)" making it seem that you are not a good player.

A shrek alone has a lot of alpha compared to allied AT guns with the acception of the piat.

Anyway, just making excuses seems like you don't want to help and just want to argue for the sake of arguing. As if you don't want any sort of help what so ever. Making this entire thread more or less pointless.


no one is saying shrek is bad, but shrek on SP was a terrible idea, they are 300mp unit thats needed for combat, repair, mine placement, medics (if no battle group) mine sweeping and now AT support? that for you being fine is ridiculous
7 Feb 2018, 12:40 PM
#26
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374



no one is saying shrek is bad, but shrek on SP was a terrible idea, they are 300mp unit thats needed for combat, repair, mine placement, medics (if no battle group) mine sweeping and now AT support? that for you being fine is ridiculous


Yeah i understand. But i feel like everyone here just makes excuses to try and solidify their argument when in turn it's very off putting.

A shrek on a SP in my opinion is a good idea, they gain vet really fast by hitting vehicles increasing their potency and their repair speed at a fast pace.

You have to look at the SP squad as a CC utility jack of trades squad. In turn they are extremely powerful and they are really hard to kill compared to the rest of the infantry aside from obers.
You also complain that 300 MP is a lot for the squad but honestly they sit in a really good spot, and they are the best supporting unit in the game.
7 Feb 2018, 13:15 PM
#27
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808



Yeah i understand. But i feel like everyone here just makes excuses to try and solidify their argument when in turn it's very off putting.

A shrek on a SP in my opinion is a good idea, they gain vet really fast by hitting vehicles increasing their potency and their repair speed at a fast pace.

You have to look at the SP squad as a CC utility jack of trades squad. In turn they are extremely powerful and they are really hard to kill compared to the rest of the infantry aside from obers.
You also complain that 300 MP is a lot for the squad but honestly they sit in a really good spot, and they are the best supporting unit in the game.


First you said double shreks is bad as they will gain vet but now its a good thing? ur contradicting yourself here, sturms are not a CC utlity jack of all trades squad, their combat engineers, they are not durable, they are 4 man squad, and that's the problem, having to rely on "utility" squad with 4 men that has so many vital roles for OKW, and once you lose them ur fked.

OKW do struggle with AT without tanks, something no other faction has a problem with and one of the reasons for that is BECAUSE shreks are on sturms.
7 Feb 2018, 13:19 PM
#28
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

the problem with schrecks: they have really bad aiming since 2 patches.

Was it changed?

an every 6-7 sek a schreck from one stpio doesnt afraid any tank seroiusly.

most alli tank shred infntery with 1-2 shoots...so no..its not very effective to have one ST Pio with schreck and 1 rakten...wich are both very fragil and must retreat after the first shot..while haveing not very far range...
7 Feb 2018, 13:31 PM
#29
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374



First you said double shreks is bad as they will gain vet but now its a good thing? ur contradicting yourself here, sturms are not a CC utlity jack of all trades squad, their combat engineers, they are not durable, they are 4 man squad, and that's the problem, having to rely on "utility" squad with 4 men that has so many vital roles for OKW, and once you lose them ur fked.

OKW do struggle with AT without tanks, something no other faction has a problem with and one of the reasons for that is BECAUSE shreks are on sturms.


I didn't say shrek on a SP squad is bad, double shrek on an SP squad would be to much as it will get insane amount of XP in very little time.
As i mained in OKW for ages until i stopped playing for a year, year and a half, I can tell you that OKW does not have any problem with AT on the field.
Yes they are combat engineers, a Close combat jack of trades utility unit.
I don't know how you think that because it's a 4 man squad makes them squishy, a volks is squishy, assgrens are squishy. Sturms have are solid units that are fairly beefy in my opinion.

And yes, when you lose any squad from OKW it really does hurt. sturms hurt yes, they are expensive, work on your unit preservation if that is the case, i feel like that part of the argument is an excuse.

If you want me to play some games for you and give you replays of how I play OKW and so forth i will send you some.
7 Feb 2018, 13:47 PM
#30
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808



I didn't say shrek on a SP squad is bad, double shrek on an SP squad would be to much as it will get insane amount of XP in very little time.
As i mained in OKW for ages until i stopped playing for a year, year and a half, I can tell you that OKW does not have any problem with AT on the field.
Yes they are combat engineers, a Close combat jack of trades utility unit.
I don't know how you think that because it's a 4 man squad makes them squishy, a volks is squishy, assgrens are squishy. Sturms have are solid units that are fairly beefy in my opinion.

And yes, when you lose any squad from OKW it really does hurt. sturms hurt yes, they are expensive, work on your unit preservation if that is the case, i feel like that part of the argument is an excuse.

If you want me to play some games for you and give you replays of how I play OKW and so forth i will send you some.


haven't played for a year and half? no wonder u hav no fkin idea what u talking about. Volks are more squishy then sturms? what. Ofc losing units hurt, but losing a sturm that does jobs NO OTHER UNIT can do hurts more. Losing a sturm squad is worse then losing a volk. Sturms atm are over burdened, any 1 with half a brain can see that
7 Feb 2018, 13:59 PM
#31
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
Sturm is a joke! bazookas 70 muni on trash! OKW is a real crap until late game, and 90% of the time you already loose when get the late game. You put one king tiger and have 0 fuel, on this time the enemy have fuel and multiple tanks...

More, you need care the OKW troops like a baby, and they die on green cover fast too, allies can put spamm troops on red cover and dont care nothing.

This game are a crap balance and we are on 2018! lol!

I play with sovs and just doo A move all the time, dont care much with cover, but with okw is impossible play that way... use penals with great AT and are good vs inf too, try put bazookas to sturm craps and see if they kill some one, no, never! just die die die... And Volks are paper!
7 Feb 2018, 14:10 PM
#32
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 88



First off you are making excuses about "good players do (insert play here)". It's as if you are saying that axis isn't able to do so in return. You also shoot yourself in the foot by stating that "good players do (x)" making it seem that you are not a good player.

A shrek alone has a lot of alpha compared to allied AT guns with the acception of the piat.

Anyway, just making excuses seems like you don't want to help and just want to argue for the sake of arguing. As if you don't want any sort of help what so ever. Making this entire thread more or less pointless.

"A good player" here means a player who at least has an understanding of how the game works, and how it works atm: Allies infantry that are not engineers are durable as hell, can take severe beating and has lower reinforce cost than their Axis counterparts

I can just blob conscript, rifles, perhaps sections to support my vehicles and completely shutdown OKW infantry play and take the whole map

A schreck alone is a joke to medium tanks (higher health pool than light vehicles), with its horrible reload time and weird accuracy
7 Feb 2018, 14:19 PM
#33
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374

the problem with schrecks: they have really bad aiming since 2 patches.

Was it changed?

an every 6-7 sek a schreck from one stpio doesnt afraid any tank seroiusly.

most alli tank shred infntery with 1-2 shoots...so no..its not very effective to have one ST Pio with schreck and 1 rakten...wich are both very fragil and must retreat after the first shot..while haveing not very far range...



shrecks are a close medium range weapon. and the lack of accuracy is counteracted by the high alpha.
7 Feb 2018, 15:07 PM
#34
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243




shrecks are a close medium range weapon. and the lack of accuracy is counteracted by the high alpha.


high alpha? which high alpha? and which is more effective?

2 zooks on cheap unit like RE which hit its target
1 schreck on high cost unit which only hit its target if it near enough..

and 2 zooks > 1 schreck...every time you compare them....every time
7 Feb 2018, 15:12 PM
#35
avatar of Two Years Gone

Posts: 29



A schreck alone is a joke to medium tanks (higher health pool than light vehicles), with its horrible reload time and weird accuracy


I've gotten a few surprise hits in on a Sherman or T34 with a Sturm Shreck before but even then it's not really useful - and like you say, once you hit once you're pretty much done unless you want to sit for five seconds while they put another round in. Sure, they may be a close range weapon, but Sturms can't exactly afford to get close without fear of getting wiped by a nade or by a single shot from the main gun of a medium tank. I'm sure two squads of Sturms with Shrecks could be useful but that's six hundred manpower and a shit ton of munitions.

It's a little off-topic but I always wondered why the OKW only has access to the Schu mine. Personally I think any mine that detonates from both infantry and armor is crap but who am I to say.

Dedicated Panzerjäger infantry in Tier 1 or 2 could be awesome. Like a Volk squad armed with MP40s and two Panzershrecks right off the bat so they're good versus armor but absolute crap versus infantry, which is how it should be.


7 Feb 2018, 16:06 PM
#36
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320

Here's the thing, if your opponent is massing say, riflemen with 2 bazooka's, they are lacking pretty heavily in the anti-infantry department. Which means you wouldn't really want to build medium tanks (Unless you kite of course). This was the problem with volks and shreks back in the day, but there's a primary difference.

Axis can get heavier tanks then just mediums. So whereas panzershrek blobs literally nullified allied vehicles, as axis it's more of a "Wait till I get a tank with higher armor out" or kiting with your tank with infantry in the front. Additionally MG's actually work against blobs now (for the most part). That zooka blob won't do jack against a brumbar.

Penals are a bit different, being 6 man means they have 4 anti infantry and 2 AT. The extra man causes it to be more ridiculous in mass quantities. Additionally PTRS can still hit infantry unlike most AT.
7 Feb 2018, 16:06 PM
#37
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 88




Dedicated Panzerjäger infantry in Tier 1 or 2 could be awesome. Like a Volk squad armed with MP40s and two Panzershrecks right off the bat so they're good versus armor but absolute crap versus infantry, which is how it should be.



I'd like a dedicated AT infantry for OKW like this guy said, what's so bad about giving OKW some decent, reliable AT infantry for once?
7 Feb 2018, 16:12 PM
#38
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 88

Here's the thing, if your opponent is massing say, riflemen with 2 bazooka's, they are lacking pretty heavily in the anti-infantry department. Which means you wouldn't really want to build medium tanks (Unless you kite of course). This was the problem with volks and shreks back in the day, but there's a primary difference.

USF can just build more REs and equip them with zooks and leave the AI to riflemen, so they don't really lack anything
7 Feb 2018, 16:34 PM
#39
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320


USF can just build more REs and equip them with zooks and leave the AI to riflemen, so they don't really lack anything


So how many rears are we talking? two? three? How many Riflemen?

Basically the more Echelons you build, the less riflemen you'd have. It was quite common back in the day to have 1 echelon + captain for 4 bazookas to fend off vehicles. It was kind of effective but they didn't do much against a supported tank. We talking like, 6 bazookas? So 2 Rears and a captain? So you'll see less riflemen and rears with zooks are utter trash against anything infantry wise. Hell riflemen at least do damage if they have bazookas.

If he somehow has like 4-5 riflemen, 2 rears and a captain with zooks how has he not been bleeding that whole game? USF hemorrhages manpower after 3 riflemen. How many bazookas did he buy? they are 50 munitions per. Where are your weapon upgrades so you can easily win engagements?
7 Feb 2018, 16:45 PM
#40
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The most effective use of SP schrecks I've seen is to defend a vehicle they're repairing against diving tanks. Albeit this is a defensive role, that's where AT infantry should really excel at.

That said, I still don't think the schreck on sturms is good for OKW, but is better than the now very old and outdated issue that was volks schrecks.
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