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russian armor

Comet

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26 Jan 2018, 01:11 AM
#21
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2306 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2018, 23:29 PMNubb3r
Is coh2stats.hu still maintained? Where can I get accurate and up to date stats without looking into the files myself?

I'm tired of anecdotal bullshit of who pens whom the best and whatnot...

Just get pen and armor between the discussed units and divide them, boom. Noone would have to pull made up numbers out of their a**es but where's the fun in that am I right?

Penetration changes at different ranges, and the Hungarian site only shows mid range.

It's not hard to look up the stats in the game files, there is a tool on steam for it. Go to your steam library, go to tools, download the coh2 tools. Open attribute editor.
1. go to categories, open ebps. This describes the entities.
2. navigate to british, vehicles, comet, open extensions to view the attributes
3. under health you see the armor, 290, and the health, 800
4. under combat open up hardpoint 1, that will be the main gun on the tank. Expand all the way until you see what the weapon is called, attributes\brits\comet_blah_blah
5. open new category weapons, navigate to the file name you just read
6. look at all the stats, penetrations is near: 210 mid: 190 far: 170

It doesn't take long once you know how to do it.
26 Jan 2018, 01:29 AM
#22
avatar of Nubb3r

Posts: 141

Alright then, let me enrich this wonderful thread with hard numbers
(if the site is up to date by now for the concerned units):

Code

Tanks Panther Comet
MP 490 500
fuel 175 185
popcap 18 18

HP 800 800
front armor 320 290
rear armor 110 110
target size 24 22

Vmax 6.6 6.9
acceleration 2.4 2.2
decelearation 4.5 4.0
rotation rate 30 32

sight radius 35 35

Code

Guns Panther Comet
range 50 45
damage 160 160
penetration 240 190

reload 6.53 6.28
cooldown far/near 1.13 0.13

accuracy near 0.06 0.06
accuracy far 0.03 0.03
moving accur. modifier 0.50 0.50

scatter max distance 8.00 6.4

area distance far 0.25 1.50
area distance near 0.15 0.25

area dmg multipl. far 0.05 0.20
area dmg multipl. near 1.00 1.00


Some easy findings if we talk about a vacuum duel type of comparison
(which is bs imo, but let's have some fun):

The likelihood of a Panther to penetrate a Comet is 240/290, which is about 82.76%
The likelihood of a Comet to penetrate a Panther is 190/320, which is about 59.38%

The Panther has a target size of 24 instead of the Comets 22, but I don't know how that stat is being accounted for when calculating hit/miss, so someone else interpret the surely meaningful significance of this.

Both tanks have equal accuracy on the move and while standing, but the Panther maximum scatters 25% further away when missing.

While the Panther has 11.11% more range, the Comet shoots 19.5% faster.

The Comet shells have 600% of the AOE of the Panther and 400% of damage done minimum if a unit is in the affected AOE with their respective weapons.

So this is easy to get wrong and I'm not quite sure if I understood the numbers correctly:

The Panther has a 0.25 AOE radius compared to 1.5 from the Comet?
And at the furthest edges of the area being affected, the Comet still does 0.2 of it's weapon's damage (160*0.2=32, a normal infantry model has ~80 HP).

I mean when you play the game, you know that the Comet is actually good at fighting infantry with it's main gun, but seeing these numbers interpreted like that for the first time makes me really think and I hope I am not misinterpreting anything here.

There are some things left out in this: Veterancy abilities/bonuses and other weapons on the tank, such as hull guns and pintle mount, which helps even it up anti infantry wise for the Panther.

just my 20.000 cents

Source:
http://www.stat.coh2.hu
Panther Tank
Comet Tank
Panther Gun
Comet Gun

Edit:
Tobis

Thanks for telling me how to do it. I used to map for CoH1, so I know my way with .sga files if that is needed here. I made the post with mid range calculations now, so I hope it doesn't skew things up.

Edit2:
Since I forgot to add a personal conclusion, I will say that I can't really see a clear winner. Both have their respective pros and cons and in a straight duel I'd say the Panther has a clear edge. But in the absence of each other/different tank, the Comet has a lot more value imo. Both are in a restrictive tier and there is no obvious winner here , so I guess we can say that both are actually in a Good Spot™
26 Jan 2018, 02:19 AM
#23
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

IMO Comet cost should reduce for minor buff

AI performance Same level Cromwell (Scatter and AOE profile same ) but slower reload speed
compare Pz4 have better scatter
but Coaxial and hull machine gun in good spot
and Comet have (Vet 1 ) WP Round good for AI performance
If not reduce cost another choice ?
26 Jan 2018, 02:57 AM
#24
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2018, 22:12 PMTobis
You know it has about the same pen as the Stug, an actual tank destroyer, right? They never even nerfed the penetration.


actually, they indirectly nerfed the penetration through the nerf to range.


I think the comet need a cost buff at least, it's a decent unit but no longer better than the panther. At best, the comet trade some anti-tank capability for anti-infantry capability.

The comet should also get better acceleration than the panther. Historically the comet had insane P/W ratio and in game the comet should be able to easily disengage from the more heavily armed and armored panther.


jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2018, 01:29 AMNubb3r


don't forget the mg. both panther now have the best coaxial&hull mg in the game while the comet have the worst. The panther can't shoot and scoot infantry but it will shred them while stationary.
26 Jan 2018, 03:34 AM
#25
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 725

also im pretty sure the comet got a vet nerf at one point people said it vetted too fast maybe but then was overnerfed, it takes extremely long for it to vet IMO
26 Jan 2018, 03:36 AM
#26
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 725

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2018, 22:12 PMTobis
You know it has about the same pen as the Stug, an actual tank destroyer, right? They never even nerfed the penetration.


lmao you also realize what the stug cost tech wise and pure cost to the comet right?

Also you have to remember what the stug is firing at, weaker armored allied armor. So its chance to pen is still great opposed to the comet which is a late game tank having to fight heavier armor axis late game tanks.
26 Jan 2018, 04:19 AM
#27
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2306 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2018, 03:36 AMRocket


lmao you also realize what the stug cost tech wise and pure cost to the comet right?

Also you have to remember what the stug is firing at, weaker armored allied armor. So its chance to pen is still great opposed to the comet which is a late game tank having to fight heavier armor axis late game tanks.

lmao you also realize the comet shoots at infantry too, right?

The comet has more than 50% more pen than the cromwell and 33% more than the t34-85, while being better at AI than both of them. It's got only 5% less armor than a tiger. It has a smoke shot that rapes AT guns, and nades that let it circle strafe them easily. It's non-doctrinal, and you're complaining that it loses against a tank specifically designed to counter it. I'm not sure what more you expect from this tank.
26 Jan 2018, 04:44 AM
#28
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2018, 04:19 AMTobis

lmao you also realize the comet shoots at infantry too, right?

The comet has more than 50% more pen than the cromwell and 33% more than the t34-85, while being better at AI than both of them. It's got only 5% less armor than a tiger. It has a smoke shot that rapes AT guns, and nades that let it circle strafe them easily. It's non-doctrinal, and you're complaining that it loses against a tank specifically designed to counter it. I'm not sure what more you expect from this tank.


he wants it to be a toss up to win against the panther, like it was pre nerf.
26 Jan 2018, 06:08 AM
#29
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2018, 04:19 AMTobis

lmao you also realize the comet shoots at infantry too, right?

The comet has more than 50% more pen than the cromwell and 33% more than the t34-85, while being better at AI than both of them. It's got only 5% less armor than a tiger. It has a smoke shot that rapes AT guns, and nades that let it circle strafe them easily. It's non-doctrinal, and you're complaining that it loses against a tank specifically designed to counter it. I'm not sure what more you expect from this tank.

saying that the comet only have 5% less armor than the tiger is seriously misrepresenting the difference in durability. the extra hp on the tiger will allow it to survive two more penetrating shot.
26 Jan 2018, 06:27 AM
#30
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

Comet armor 290 compare panther 320
but If fight against Infantry AT weapon Axis Panzershecrk better chance to fight compare bazooka and PLAT
-----
And Another nerf for patch Sapper Repair speed Reduce
we need More L2P for comet
26 Jan 2018, 07:04 AM
#31
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Comet armor 290 compare panther 320
but If fight against Infantry AT weapon Axis Panzershecrk better chance to fight compare bazooka and PLAT

And the comets maingun actually has AOE so against all but guaranteed larger squads (and cheaper squads too seeing as you can throw AT on sub ~50% cheaper squads should you chose to) more than makes up for that. No shrek schlepping squad in the game has more than 4 models to make up for its greater potency
26 Jan 2018, 08:08 AM
#32
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

It's a generalist, a TRUE generalist, that has medium TD penetration and utility and armor.
It has also a no brainer accuracy upgrade and is not the supposed heavy TD counter (the firefly has this role), while the panther is supposed to cover it.
I don't get where's bad:
1) It has sensibly better reload than panther
2) Can take any armor but panther frontally
3) Can phosporous shell atg's
4) Better accuracy than a supposed tank hunter unit.
5) Stug penetration.
26 Jan 2018, 08:10 AM
#33
avatar of CombatWombat

Posts: 98

I've not had a great deal of success with comets in team games lately so I just avoid getting it - its too expensive for its middle road performance. Similarly I also don't bother with the Churchill as I don't know what its supposed to do that other units can't do better.

While the stats of the unit seem reasonable, the timing, cost and vet are unattractive. The WP shell requires vet 1 and the short range means you need to expose yourself. Vet 3 comet only give movement bonuses and auto grenade toss, nothing to improving its offensive ability.

I do often choose hammer tactics for war speed and that beautiful gammon bomb but the comet I only really get if I have tons of resources and I'm not sure what the enemy is planning.

Its works alright if you can get a few of them on the field, but single comet won't get much done, maybe bully an axis P4 or give a volks squad pause for thought, naught else.

Maybe I've not been using it right but I do have more success with purpose built units like the centaur and firefly.
26 Jan 2018, 09:58 AM
#34
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13290 | Subs: 1

Comet is main battle tank.

Apart from its stats it has access to a number of abilities from vet 0 like:
"war speed", "commander" (45 sight/x1.1 accuracy),"hammer trucking" (more vision on target), "smoke shells" "crew defense" (Grenades).

It can generally perform adequately against most threads and it can even counter ATGs.

Panthers are Tds with Hmgs.

Comparing the two units with different roles and tech cost is simply misleading.
26 Jan 2018, 12:56 PM
#35
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2018, 09:58 AMVipper
Comet is main battle tank.

Apart from its stats it has access to a number of abilities from vet 0 like:
"war speed", "commander" (45 sight/x1.1 accuracy),"hammer trucking" (more vision on target), "smoke shells" "crew defense" (Grenades).

It can generally perform adequately against most threads and it can even counter ATGs.

Panthers are Tds with Hmgs.

Comparing the two units with different roles and tech cost is simply misleading.



Rocket has shown time and time again that he doesn't understand the idea of unit roles. He regularly compares specialist units to generalist units and uses faulty anecdotes. It should have been fairly obvious when he started claiming that the Comet bounces 60 to 70% of the time vs Panthers.

Why do so many people keep making direct comparisons between panzershreks and zooks/PIATs? Shreks appear on a 340mp, 37mp reinforce 4 man-squad. Or if you're crazy enough, on your Sturms. PIATs and Zooks can be put on engineer units and other low value combat units. I don't know what rank they're playing at but I hardly ever see anyone waste 340mp/120 muni on an MP-bleedfest unit that gets kited to death easily.

26 Jan 2018, 13:04 PM
#36
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241




Rocket has shown time and time again that he doesn't understand the idea of unit roles. He regularly compares specialist units to generalist units and uses faulty anecdotes. It should have been fairly obvious when he started claiming that the Comet bounces 60 to 70% of the time vs Panthers.

Why do so many people keep making direct comparisons between panzershreks and zooks/PIATs? Shreks appear on a 340mp, 37mp reinforce 4 man-squad. Or if you're crazy enough, on your Sturms. PIATs and Zooks can be put on engineer units and other low value combat units. I don't know what rank they're playing at but I hardly ever see anyone waste 340mp/120 muni on an MP-bleedfest unit that gets kited to death easily.



it is like the dumb argue that IS with full upgrade are expansive. Right.

but grens have not that much aviable upgrades...1xLMG

there is one problem: popcap!

WHICH ARMY DO YOU WANT??
The 100/100 full with grens equiped with LMG ...or .. 100/100 full with IS equiped brens/vickers/ piats?


hm?
26 Jan 2018, 15:16 PM
#37
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

Comets in a good spot :)
26 Jan 2018, 15:18 PM
#38
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

There are tanks the panther can beat 1vs1?

The horror.
26 Jan 2018, 15:21 PM
#39
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2018, 15:18 PMzarok47
There are tanks the panther can beat 1vs1?

The horror.


every tank can do it..when the panther must move... ;)=
26 Jan 2018, 16:34 PM
#40
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2018, 04:19 AMTobis

lmao you also realize the comet shoots at infantry too, right?

The comet has more than 50% more pen than the cromwell and 33% more than the t34-85, while being better at AI than both of them. It's got only 5% less armor than a tiger. It has a smoke shot that rapes AT guns, and nades that let it circle strafe them easily. It's non-doctrinal, and you're complaining that it loses against a tank specifically designed to counter it. I'm not sure what more you expect from this tank.


The comet is not better in AI than either the 85 or the cromwell, It is in fact worse.

The comet has the same shell AOE profile as the Cromwell
The comet has a lesser AOE profile than the 85 and Worse MG damage.
The comet has a slightly Slower reload than both of them.

But these are marginal so it should be similar right?

The major difference that makes it perform to a lesser standard is how its main gun functions differently.To my understanding the comet gun has no collision, I believe this makes it explode on infantry less often and effectively. Cruz described this at some point to my recollection but i don't know where, can't be 100% sure it was never adjusted but i believe it is still unique.

In games ive seen a comet and a cromwell shoot at infantry, the cromwell has performed much better despite having exactly the same aoe and scatter. I have had 30 kill cromwells in a couple games but I can't seem to get a comet with more than 15~. Perhaps this is timing but I certainly think that with the same numbers the comet is not doing the same job which is odd to me.

TLDR; Comet has same AI stats as Cromwell but main gun is coded differently makes it worse in AI.
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