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17 Dec 2017, 21:11 PM
#701
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5419 | Subs: 28

when is the best time to build caches


1vs1 or 4vs4?

In 1vs1 you don't see / make it often.

In 2vs2-4vs4

a) you have your normal setup on the field and then some manpower over. Like Mg, 2 gren, 1 mortar, 1 pak.

b) when you are not facing an Enemy, because they are all fighting on the other side. So you can go for some caches and then help your teammates.

c) use a cache on a cutoff point, to protec it for a fast decap flank
8 Jan 2018, 22:54 PM
#702
avatar of shoegazer

Posts: 10

Hey people!

I have a question about those OST jaeger command call-in infantry squads.
I am USF and my 5 man, almost full HP, vet-1 Lieutenant squad, wasn't equip with more than the BAR they come with, starts receiving fire from a lone jaeger squad (also 5 models, full HP, vet 0 or 1 don't remember) who are behind sandbags (green cover) in a distance.
My reaction is to turn and move right at them, to fight them up close using the other side of the same cover they are. So I do and LT loses a model - but the rest have plenty HP - until they get in the opposite side of those sandbags also in green cover. jaegers are still 5 men and almost full HP when the close-up fight begins. I am watching. Not more than 10 seconds later, jaegers are 4 or 5 men with high HP vs only 2 men of the LT -> so I retreat.
ps: no grenades where thrown
So, are Jaegers THAT good in close range DESPITE being excellent in long range?? I thought I had no chance fighting them from a distance and good chance if I got close but...they seem too stronko_O

happppy new year!
8 Jan 2018, 23:00 PM
#703
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5419 | Subs: 28

Hey people!

I have a question about those OST jaeger command call-in infantry squads.
I am USF and my 5 man, almost full HP, vet-1 Lieutenant squad, wasn't equip with more than the BAR they come with, starts receiving fire from a lone jaeger squad (also 5 models, full HP, vet 0 or 1 don't remember) who are behind sandbags (green cover) in a distance.
My reaction is to turn and move right at them, to fight them up close using the other side of the same cover they are. So I do and LT loses a model - but the rest have plenty HP - until they get in the opposite side of those sandbags also in green cover. jaegers are still 5 men and almost full HP when the close-up fight begins. I am watching. Not more than 10 seconds later, jaegers are 4 or 5 men with high HP vs only 2 men of the LT -> so I retreat.
ps: no grenades where thrown
So, are Jaegers THAT good in close range DESPITE being excellent in long range?? I thought I had no chance fighting them from a distance and good chance if I got close but...they seem too stronko_O

happppy new year!


Hey, its an elite unit. Wehrmacht can have only 1 squad of that on the field. So you can't spam this unit.
They have g43 so yes don't go close range to them :P

And when your inf is walking they are worser in dps. While the Wehrmacht unit was always staying still.
19 Jan 2018, 22:43 PM
#704
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Hey guys,

1) Current OKW meta regarding teching ? Is mech hq still viable (when ?) ? When shoild i rather go btg to tier 4 ?
And when i go mech should i backtech for isg/healing ? Before or after schewer ?

2) Soviet tank hunter doctrine: good tank hunter build order ? I'm not sure if it is better to go double cons and tier 1 penals/sniper and then upgrade ptrs on cons or simply stick to conscripts.

Thanks.
19 Jan 2018, 22:56 PM
#705
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1001 | Subs: 2

Hey guys,

1) Current OKW meta regarding teching ? Is mech hq still viable (when ?) ? When shoild i rather go btg to tier 4 ?
And when i go mech should i backtech for isg/healing ? Before or after schewer ?

2) Soviet tank hunter doctrine: good tank hunter build order ? I'm not sure if it is better to go double cons and tier 1 penals/sniper and then upgrade ptrs on cons or simply stick to conscripts.

Thanks.

Mech HQ works, but battlegroup is almost always preferable. Consider going mech hq when youre against usf, especially if they go lieutenant, but otherwise battlegroup into t4 is probably better.

If you do go mech, then you should look to backtech as soon as possible, the ideal time being when you have enough floating manpower (around 500 since you need 100 for the truck, 200 for the tier itself, and 100 for the medics; youll want extra manpower after that for reinforcement). That is to say, get healing up before you go schewerer or else your either unnecessarily bleeding a lot of manpower or muni.

As for your second question, either works. Honestly, going tier 2 for maxims is probably preferable. Maxims allow you to cost effectively deal with infantry while your cons (and possibly your zis) take care of the light vehicles and tanks.
19 Jan 2018, 23:02 PM
#706
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Mech HQ works, but battlegroup is almost always preferable. Consider going mech hq when youre against usf, especially if they go lieutenant, but otherwise battlegroup into t4 is probably better.

If you do go mech, then you should look to backtech as soon as possible, the ideal time being when you have enough floating manpower (around 500 since you need 100 for the truck, 200 for the tier itself, and 100 for the medics; youll want extra manpower after that for reinforcement). That is to say, get healing up before you go schewerer or else your either unnecessarily bleeding a lot of manpower or muni.

As for your second question, either works. Honestly, going tier 2 for maxims is probably preferable. Maxims allow you to cost effectively deal with infantry while your cons (and possibly your zis) take care of the light vehicles and tanks.

Thanks
20 Jan 2018, 23:25 PM
#707
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Hey...it's me again

1) The new usf mechanized doctrine: best faction to use against ? What teching to complement it ? Captain or LT ?

2) New fallschirmjaeger, when and how to use those over obersoldaten ? Are they worth if i alreafy teched to tier 4 ?
20 Jan 2018, 23:36 PM
#708
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1001 | Subs: 2

Hey...it's me again

1) The new usf mechanized doctrine: best faction to use against ? What teching to complement it ? Captain or LT ?

2) New fallschirmjaeger, when and how to use those over obersoldaten ? Are they worth if i alreafy teched to tier 4 ?

Mechanized is best used against okw due to their lack of early fausts. LT or CPT work, pick based on whatever youre most comfortable with or whichever faction youre facing (I prefer LT when possible).

Short answer is: don't. Don't use them over obers. Falls have small advantages like vet 0 camo, access to fausts, and negligibly lower bleed, but obers are overall just better. Something that you didnt ask about, but try not to get more than two squads of fallschirmjagers because they bleed you pretty hard; you can't use them as your core infantry.
20 Jan 2018, 23:39 PM
#709
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4099 | Subs: 3

How do you play OKW without flak track? I find it underwhelming and unable to retain momentum with just infantry and support weapons. 1v1 btw
21 Jan 2018, 00:07 AM
#710
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Mechanized is best used against okw due to their lack of early fausts. LT or CPT work, pick based on whatever youre most comfortable with or whichever faction youre facing (I prefer LT when possible).

Short answer is: don't. Don't use them over obers. Falls have small advantages like vet 0 camo, access to fausts, and negligibly lower bleed, but obers are overall just better. Something that you didnt ask about, but try not to get more than two squads of fallschirmjagers because they bleed you pretty hard; you can't use them as your core infantry.

Yeah i always prefer LT too.

3) Now that sturms are more accessible is it possible to go additional sturm + kubel + raketen and tech and get panzerfussies ? I lt's something that i was wondering since i desidered to get a only pfus build order.
21 Jan 2018, 00:20 AM
#711
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5419 | Subs: 28

How do you play OKW without flak track? I find it underwhelming and unable to retain momentum with just infantry and support weapons. 1v1 btw

Maybe check the scc5 games, where okw won .also what is wrong going flak hft? So you are forcing the enemy to tech. And koth ofc. I agree that the meta with Luchs rush is over. And use okw mines.
21 Jan 2018, 00:27 AM
#712
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4099 | Subs: 3


Maybe check the scc5 games, where okw won .also what is wrong going flak hft? So you are forcing the enemy to tech. And koth ofc. I agree that the meta with Luchs rush is over. And use okw mines.


The point of "balance" is too allow for diversity in gameplay. Not force a player to build 1 unit because it rofl stomps or just to stay afloat. I don't perticularly like light vehicle play, I prefer infantry.
21 Jan 2018, 02:49 AM
#713
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1001 | Subs: 2

How do you play OKW without flak track? I find it underwhelming and unable to retain momentum with just infantry and support weapons. 1v1 btw

If you dont have great team weapon micro, the answer is that you simply dont go without the flak track. Okw mid game has been its weakest phase, and the nerfs have made it an actual weakness (not just a relative one). The luchs was the way to overcome this, and in its absence, that responsibility now falls on the flak track. Without it, you will be in the theoretical disadvantage throughout the midgame unless you can get extra value out of your team weapons.

The only other real option to skip aa ht without improving team weapon play is to coast off of an extremely good early game. Okw has the strongest early game, and if you can achieve absolute dominance in the first few minutes, you can hope to lock your opponent out of resources entirely and reach late game tech by the time your opponent reaches mid game tech. This would require super strong early starts and strangleholds, and a t4 rush where obers can dominate the infntry game, and raks can minimize the damage enemy light vehicles inflict until you can get out a p4.
21 Jan 2018, 02:54 AM
#714
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4099 | Subs: 3


If you dont have great team weapon micro, the answer is that you simply dont go without the flak track. Okw mid game has been its weakest phase, and the nerfs have made it an actual weakness (not just a relative one). The luchs was the way to overcome this, and in its absence, that responsibility now falls on the flak track. Without it, you will be in the theoretical disadvantage throughout the midgame unless you can get extra value out of your team weapons.

The only other real option to skip aa ht without improving team weapon play is to coast off of an extremely good early game. Okw has the strongest early game, and if you can achieve absolute dominance in the first few minutes, you can hope to lock your opponent out of resources entirely and reach late game tech by the time your opponent reaches mid game tech. This would require super strong early starts and strangleholds, and a t4 rush where obers can dominate the infntry game, and raks can minimize the damage enemy light vehicles inflict until you can get out a p4.


So my counter question to that is where is USFs weakness? Or soviets?
21 Jan 2018, 05:12 AM
#715
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1001 | Subs: 2



So my counter question to that is where is USFs weakness? Or soviets?

My personal take on the factions is that USF is the "strongest" faction in that it has the most powerful things. SOV is the actual "strongest" or the most effective because of its versatility and how it can field effective counters to everything, often without a fuel cost.

As a result, I believe that USF will try to "out-stat" you in a sense in which it will try to do whatever youre doing, except with something more powerful. The key here is to not play that game and exploit the faction's lack of tools. USF struggles with garrison clearing and cover denial (thats probably repeated a lot on this site, isnt it?), so spamming cover usually works to your favor. Incendiary nades or snipers and mortars can help you take back the cover position if you lose it while USF doesn't have anything as convenient. It's easier for you to lock USF in place than it is for USF to lock you in place, so if you ever force a lot of his units to retreat and make a forward defensive line or gradually move the line up with smaller victories, you can hope to get USF in a strangle hold.

Furthermore, USF's team weapons are, as a whole, lacking. MG42s and ost mortars combined are pretty effective against usf since the combination is stronger than a .50 and a USF mortar. Also, the non linear teching means that its possible to exploit the lack of AT guns if you get a medium tank out early enough, or win in the combined arms game if he didn't tech lieutenant.


Soviets are different in that everything can usually do everything. Nearly every soviet infantry squad has AT (AT which usually snares, at that). A lot of their AT options have anti infantry barrages. This means its harder to exploit any fundamental weakness. Durable weapon teams and snares everywhere usually mean pushing is difficult. However, well executed pushes can still break the line and can be more devastating than usual. Flanking a weapon team then deathlooping it is a good way of making a soviet weapon team into an axis weapon team. If you're not confident in executing pushes, then spamming indirect fire and smoke is the next best option. Soviets are great at turning the match into a stalemate now, so you have to be patient; whether thats biding your time for an opening, or waiting for your indirect fire to do work. The point is, you can't go into a soviet matchup hoping for a bunch of infantry squad vs infantry squad engagements or hoping to make a bunch of vehicle pushes.
7 Feb 2018, 17:24 PM
#716
avatar of Cogetama

Posts: 67

When using guard rifle combined, under which circumstances should I get the KV-1 over another vehicle from T4?

What is the best role in battle for the KV-1?

Can/Should you use this commander in 3v3 and 4v4?
7 Feb 2018, 17:46 PM
#717
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1001 | Subs: 2

When using guard rifle combined, under which circumstances should I get the KV-1 over another vehicle from T4?

What is the best role in battle for the KV-1?

Can/Should you use the commander in 3v3 and 4v4?

The kv-1 isn't really that good (though I do personally like them). Theyre best used when the enemy has a lot of anti tank, making a t34 not an option. Never make a kv as your first medium tank though, the t34 comes much earlier and has much better anti infantry capabilities. Overall though, its usually suggested you don't build kv-1s to begin with.

The best role for the KV-1 is to push off lone infantry squads and to slowly, but safely bleed your enemy. A lot of people say that the KV-1s role is as a meatshield, but that role is already covered or unnecessary at the point you can get one.

Guard rifle is a good commander overall and is very useful in any game size.
7 Feb 2018, 20:42 PM
#718
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5419 | Subs: 28


Can/Should you use this commander in 3v3 and 4v4?


Yes because of:

A) Guarde

B) Ppsh

C) Il2 inf strafe


But Kv1 are not the best for 4vs4.

Also soivet shock army (120mm,shocks, arty, IL2 infstrafe, ppsh) is a very good doc atm for 3vs3, 4vs4

And the one with guarde/ recon / arty / Il2 bombstrike (don't know his name right now)
7 Feb 2018, 20:50 PM
#719
avatar of Two Years Gone

Posts: 29

On the other end of the spectrum, which Wehrmacht doctrine would you consider the worst for 3v3 and 4v4? I've been trying to break out of my comfort zone of Elite Troops/Spearhead/Lightning War so I want to know which ones to keep in mind.
9 Feb 2018, 01:25 AM
#720
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

So haven't played the game in some months, how do you counter Tiger Ace as USF in 1v1, I used 2 Jackson and the most I can do is force him back while his TA just wipe my inf left and right.
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