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DBP Commander Revamp brainstorming

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10 Nov 2017, 17:32 PM
#41
avatar of Wreathlit Noël
Donator 11

Posts: 168

Feuersturm Doctrine

As it stands, the only attractiveness of this commander is the flamethrower and the barrage.

- Thorough salvage
I don't really like this ability as the amount of time it takes to get 15 munis and 5 fuel is immense. Could be replaced by an opel truck, supply drops, fuel->munition conversion, etc.

- Flammenwerfer 35
The main reason to choose this commander to fight on urban maps. Not quite as good since the mutually exclusive change.

- Recoup Losses
I almost forgot this ability exists. Using it would require not getting LMG-34s, using abilities, saving for Rocket Barrage and more for not a whole lot of gain. Could be replaced by the mortar halftrack or an incendiary mortar barrage.

- Flammpanzer 38(t)
I've tried but this thing sucks always. You get way more mileage out of a Panzer IV or Stuka zu fuss. It either needs a significant cost decrease or a buff.

- Rocket Barrage
It's great against buildings and emplacements but sometimes feels a little inconsistent against smaller targets such as artillery.

Since this doctrine piles another upgrade onto Sturms, I had thought that there could be potential in a max 1 squad of volks with a 2 weapon slot minesweeper. It would allow you to focus on Sturms using the flamethrowers and not have to pay 300 manpower for a minesweeper squad with high reinforce. I don't feel this is a necessary change though.
10 Nov 2017, 18:08 PM
#42
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

OKW Luftwaffe suggestions

Make falls build-able from flak HQ or cheaper if you walk them onto the map.

Take out some or all of the defensive structure, recon flight, and airbourne assault abilities(or adjust airbourne assault).

Use some Ostheer commander abilities such as,

Relief infantry(bring in luftwaffe guys who are basically like ostruppen reskined)
Stuka Divebomb
Ambush camo
AT strafe
Anti infantry strafe
Flame pot drop
Smoke pot drop


10 Nov 2017, 19:18 PM
#43
avatar of Retief

Posts: 28

Mechanized:

Swap m3 assault group for tac support m5 (or any other worthwhile vehicle callin)

Swap recon sweep for combined arms

The jeep might also need buffs, but with the other changes, it hopefully won't have to carry the commander as much.
10 Nov 2017, 19:33 PM
#44
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 424 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 13:17 PMÆgion

USF: Recon Support

snip

Mechanized Company

snip




I do like most of the changes you've suggested

Recon Support

Riflemen Flares and FO

If Riflemen flares added and if Forward Observers was bugged fixed I'd definitely see myself using it more often as any player would greatly value the ability to gain LoS on their mainline infantry squad. Means it wouldn't have to use M20 if I need LoS or Major Recon as frequently.

I and R Pathfinders

Honestly if they just became a four man pathfinder squad that was cheaper, inability to pick up weapon racks, but have a snipe ability they'd be useful as they could still provide some combat ability while possessing a good amount of utility.

M8 Greyhound

Could due with a overall buff to it's AI capabilities maybe adding a .50cal like that on M20. It's LoS is actually already quite good IF anyone manages to get it to veterancy 3. Before anyone says why you'd go M20 if you could go Greyhound I'd say mines, cheaper, and not having to lock in a doctrine for it.

Recon Sweep

Agreed making it a Recon Loiter would make it different from the Major recon plane whilst being useful for different situations like needed to retain LoS or using Major recon to quickly survey the map.

Para Drop Combat group

Reducing the MP cost, adding a munitions fee, and (this is a maybe from me) removing the support weapons. Also making the CP requirement lower like say five. The Paratroopers would be like their brethren in the Airborne doctrine with maybe the ability to plant mines since they would be dropping in mid game with no veterancy. So if you lose a significant amount of infantry you can use this to replace them with elite but non vetted squads.

Mechanized Company

WC 51

I do like that idea. Give USF a light vehicle that functions similarly to the Kubel (a quick harassment unit) but at a higher cost due it's increased capabilities. I'd suggest testing out the ability to decap points but inability to cap as a trade off.

Withdraw and Refit

This is tricky as I do use it every once in awhile but it is a useful and interesting ability. Being able to use the LT AA halftrack then withdraw once it becomes too dangerous for it by mid to late game is valuable. Similarly can be said of the Stuart where you can de-crew the vetted crew to use for that Sherman which is just that much closer to affording thanks to withdrawing that Stuart.

M3

Could add the ability to either drop weapons or have a AoE heal (With a heatfy munitions cost of course).
Simply replace it with the M5 but that isn't any fun. If it did have a AoE heal this would be countered by the fact it's fragile and Riflemen could be suppressed to prevent them from soft retreating. This is also taking in the account that CPT On Me! isn't a AoE ability anymore. Also removing the AE would be good as it's MP cost is just too high.

Recon Sweep

*Insert what was stated about Recon Company sweep*

155mm Artillery Barrage

Fine as is. Drops quick, has a punch, and at a fair cost.
10 Nov 2017, 20:14 PM
#45
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1834 | Subs: 1

(SOVIET) Tank Hunter Tactics

- Add a Vehicle Awareness munitions ability to the PTRS upgrade (light version of the Stormtrooper version?)
- Add an Immobilizing Mine that M5 can deploy (or add the Mine as an Engineer upgrade/to the Salvage Kit to justify the cost)
- Add some kind of critical effect to the AT grenade assault? (Stun, or engine slow?) It whiffs usually unless the player is totally not paying attention so I feel like you should be rewarded for landing it)



(WEHRMACHT) Jaeger Light Infantry

Generally needs to be made less munitions heavy, the commander name suggests an emphasis on mobility and commando-y type units so...

- Sprint
- G43 (always good)
- 250 Halftrack w/ some kind of unit...Upgraded Stormtroopers? (for the lulz?)
- Puma might be a kind of cool thematic touch of a light reconnaissance unit
- Plus a off-map munitions sink of choice (can leave the Stuka or Arty)



(WEHRMACHT) Osttruppen Doctrine
-Bring back the Assault Officer buffs from FBP, pretty please?

I really don't know why people voted for this commander because it's pretty good from a 1v1 perspective :/
10 Nov 2017, 20:45 PM
#46
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

Let m8 be an AT, put the same gun as m5 stuart, then you got a meta commander, countering luchs without need to going cap.
10 Nov 2017, 21:26 PM
#47
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2149 | Subs: 15

Tank Hunter commander - Add Zookas to cons and CE.
10 Nov 2017, 21:54 PM
#48
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

Ideas for "new" abilities:
UKF:
Engineer related:
Engineers now have to grenades (smoke or incendiary or explosive or AT grenades)

Engineer upgrade to Sten MkIII no longer receive bonus penalties out in cover (take up all slots)

Engineer can now increase armor of vehicles by 10% or reduce target size.

Commando related:
Commando redesigned instead of permanent cloak they get ambush cloak and ambush bonuses. (moving cloak can become available via veterancy)

The get incendiary gammon bomb or WP gammon bomb.

Weapons: 1 sten replaced by de lisle carbine (already in the game) giving the ability of 1 "sniper shot"



10 Nov 2017, 23:48 PM
#49
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 944

(USF) Recon Support Company
Intended to give USF a plethora of scouting assets, then using powerful artillery strikes or superior range to capitalize on Recon data.
- Forward Riflemen Observers: 25% LoS buff should stay, but also give Riflemen flares. Perhaps it is possible to merge the two abilities; this way Rifle Company would be buffed as well.
- I&R Pathfinders: rather lackluster, I would make them regular Pathfinders that can't build beacons but can call in mortar barrages (regular and smoke). Also give them a Binoculars ability (Hit the Dirt + Recon Mode).
- M8 Greyhound: I envision the Greyhound as the Anti-Infantry focused cousin of the Stuart, with a stronger co-axial MG and a useful canister shot. Add a pintle M2HB upgrade. Also, have it come with Armored Skirts too. Adjust CP/MP/FU cost as needed.
- Recon Mode (new): toggled ability, disables weaponry for LoS increase. Can be used by M20 Utility Car, M8 Greyhound, M5A1 Stuart, M4A3 Sherman.
- 240mm Precision Artillery Strike (new): powerful off-map strike, the the "smash" ability. I envision it as Railway Artillery, no smoke, only the first shell.

(USF) Mechanized Company
Intended to allow USF to play extremely aggressively with light vehicles, making it possible to have a vehicle-heavy army composition at all times as opposed to an infantry-heavy army composition.
- WC51 Willys Jeep: ability starts on 60 second cooldown, fuel cost decreased to 10FU.
- M3 Halftrack Assault Group: 500MP 30FU. M3 Halftrack gets 320HP, Assault Engineers replaced with Mechanized Riflemen: Riflemen armed with 3x Thompson 2x M1 Garand, Cooked Pineapple Grenade (same as Paratroopers/Rangers, doesn't require tech). See if it is possible to directly use the Ardennes Assault asset. Reduce CP requirement to 2.
- Withdraw and Refit: great ability, keep it as is.
- M21 Mortar Halftrack (new): reduce fuel cost. Replace Delayed Barrage with an M301 flare ability.
- M4(76) Sherman Command Tank (new) : An M4A3E8 with a 1 sec longer reload time and a reduction in mobility, provides 35m Combined Arms aura.

(SOVIET) Tank Hunter Tactics
Intended to give the core soviet army greater anti-vehicle capabilities. A "lurk and pounce" combat style as opposed to a "seek and destroy" combat style.
- Conscript AT Package: CP requirement reduced to 1. Buying the AT package gives your conscripts the AT Grenade Volley ability.
- Engineer AT Operations Kit: Salvage Kit merged with PMD-6M AT Mine, also unlocks the construction of Tank Traps. Cost decreased to 30MU.
- Ambush Lockdown (new): available for SU-76M, T-34/76, SU-85. Toggled ability, 3 sec toggle time. Immobilizes vehicle, provides camouflage, give first strike bonus.
- Mark Target (new): a good ability, would greatly increase the effectiveness of this commander against axis tanks. Make it increase weapon penetration against the target as well.
- IL-2 PTAB AT Bombing Run: great as is, no need to change it.

(SOVIET) Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics
Intended to give mainline infantry greater combat power and synergy, and providing elite infantry, artillery, and air support.
- Hit the Dirt: reduce CP cost to 0.
- Conscript PPsH-41: reduce CP cost to 1. With Grenadiers getting G43s at 1CP, I don't see why Cons shouldn't have such an option available to them early on.
- Guards Rifle Infantry: restore full 27 damage to PTRS. Button Vehicle now also disables vehicle abilities (no Blitzrieg, no Smoke). This would give Guards a reason to be feared by axis tanks that their AT rifles can't penetrate reliably, while also increasing their viability against infantry.
- 152mm ML-20: should cost something like 400MP 30FU, however should be standardized with all other static artillery pieces (203mm B-4, 10.5cm leFH 18, 8.8cm PaK 43).
- IL-2 Close Air Support: I would give it bonus damage against vehicles, so that it would actually be a threat to light vehicles (tanks would have enough armor to ignore it). Gives this ability a bit more flexibility.


(BRITISH) Royal Engineer Regiment
Intended to give the British the option of an aggressive playstyle, allowing them to break through hardened defensive positions.
- Assault Sapper Kit (new): 30MU upgrade, allows Sappers to throw a satchel charge and a smoke grenade. This would give the Brits another way of dealing with garrisons/ bunkers without a Flamethrower, Crocodile, or a Wasp.
- Designate Command Vehicle: recon needs to cost munitions.
- Vehicle Crew Repairs: very useful as is, no need to change it.
- Anti-Building Flame Mortar Support: copy of SU Incendiary Artillery Barrage.
- Churchill AVRE: reduce damage to 320, but gains 120 bonus damage against buildings. This way it will be less of a vehicle-killer and more of a anti-fortification tool.

(BRITISH) Commando Regiment
Intended to give Brits the option of an aggressive playstyle, allowing them to raise merrry hell behind enemy lines.
- Smoke Raid Operation: also gives all infantry passive sprint. Increase cost as needed.
- Command Glider Insertion: allow it to build more Commandos if it is in territory, much like the Forward Logistics Glider. Add a new unit to Gliders: PIAT Commandos. 4-man squad, 2x sten Gun, 2x PIAT, Camo in cover, no grenades, can lay mines. Vet 1 provides first strike bonus.
- ULTRA Decrypt (new): copy of SU Spy Network.
- Mortar Cover: great as is, no need to change it.
- Air Supremacy Operation: great as is, no need to change it.

(OKW) Feuersturm Doctrine
Intended to be a powerful urban anti-infantry and anti-building commander.
- Flammenwerfer 42: great as is, no need to change it.
- Recoup Losses: increased ability duration, increased Munitions cost to compensate. Make it slightly more useful.
- 7.5cm leIG 18 Incendiary Round (new): gives the leIG an ability that is the same as the WM Sdfkz. 250/7 Mortar HT's ability, which allows it to fire one incendiary round at a target location. Would prove to be very useful against garrisons, emplacements, and support weapon blobs.
- Flammpanzer 38(t) Hetzer: increase flame damage to rival that of the KV-8. Also PLEASE make it a remote-control MG42. :D
- Incendiary Rocket Barrage: changed to be an off-map version of the Walking Stuka Incendiary Barrage, but with a 60 second DoT, adjust cost to compensate. This would allow it to roast static units with ease and turn it into an area-denial offmap.

(OKW) Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine
Intended to be a powerful anti-infantry and air support oriented commander.
- Recon Pass: great as is, no need to change it.
- Supply Drop Zone (new): copy of the WM version of this ability, however Supply Planes can be shot down, drops 3 crates instead of 5 (max 90 MU/30 FU).
- Fallschirmjagers: DBP v1.3 makes these much, much better as a unit.
- Fragmentation Bombing Run (new): copy of the WM version of this ability, would give this commander much more utility
- Valiant Assault: add a -10% reload, -10% cooldown buff as well. Adjust cost as needed.

(WEHRMACHT) Jaeger Light Infantry
Intended to make WM line infantry much more flexible and powerful, especially in urban environments.
- Ambush Camouflage: free of cost, unlocked automatically for Grenadiers, MG42, and Panzergrenadiers upon reaching Vet 1.
- Jaeger Light Infantry Package: Grenadier version stays the same, gives Panzergrenadiers 3 G43 rifles.
- Light AT Panzergrenadiers (new): 300MP, Pgrens with 2x Panzerbuche 39, 2x Grenadier Kar 98ks. Bundle Grenade removed, Vet 1 Treadbreaker ability (3 sec aim time, Immobilized target vehicle). Also has passive vehicle detection, similar to Tank Hunter IS. Intended as a light AT stopgap unit against light vehicles, could make T3 rush viable.
- Grenade Assault (new): copy of OKW Infiltration Grenades, but costs 45MU and has 45 sec cooldown. Would synergize extremely well with.
- Stuka Close Air Support: DBP changes (no vehicle crits, less damage) make it less overpowered, I would say that its in a good spot now.

(WEHRMACHT) Osttruppen Doctrine
Intended to be an early-war urban combat commander.
- Osttruppen: reinforce time increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
- Trench: renamed “Defensive Operations”, allows Pioneers to build Tank Traps and Trenches, Grenadiers, Osttruppen, and Panzergrenadiers to build Trenches, Sandbags, and Barbed Wire.
- Supply Drop Zone: too powerful when you compared with Allied Supply Drop. Supply planes can be shot down, drops maximum of 3 crates, total 90 Munitions or 30 Fuel.
- Panzer IV Ausf. F (new): Vet 1 gains Lock Down ability (self Hull Down)
- Railway Artillery: no longer drops signal smoke.


11 Nov 2017, 05:05 AM
#50
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1971 | Subs: 2


- SU-100 (new): 600MP 200FU, identical to SU-85 but has Elefant's 88mm (300 dmg, 400 pen, 8.6 sec reload, 70 range). Has little HP but is more maneuverable. Essentially, make it the glass cannon of the heavy TDs.


SU-100 is a good idea but:
- I think the chances are small that Relic will add it to the game
- SU-100 is not a glass tank, it's JagdPanter analog, so this is a small copy of the Elephant
11 Nov 2017, 08:16 AM
#51
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

I really doubt that the resources for new vehicles exist
11 Nov 2017, 09:50 AM
#52
avatar of Advisor

Posts: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Nov 2017, 08:16 AMVipper
I really doubt that the resources for new vehicles exist

May be APCR (HVAP) or HEAT rounds for Soviets?
11 Nov 2017, 12:39 PM
#53
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

I&R pathfinder
First let me say please don't make them more like regular pathfinders. They aren't the same unit and shouldn't be.

As they are now they are basically just a middleman for the (admittedly good) artillery, and shitty ones at that. But even at the slightly reduced cost you are only going to use it once or twice, especially since the rest of the commander can be muni expensive as well.

What they should be is a dedicated recon unit that is capable of penetrating enemy lines and providing sight, with the artillery being a useful tool they have when placed in the right place at the right time.

I propose two changes:

- Add a ability that allows them to move around in stealth while prone. (It can be limited to a timed duration if balance requires)
- increase the range of the artillery call-in to the same as their visual range.

This should make them better at infiltrating your enemies territory to find hiding spots where they can provide LOS without your enemies knowledge. And actually able to provide artillery support without exposing themselves.

It definitely fits the commanders theme better and doesn't cause overlap with airborne.
11 Nov 2017, 12:51 PM
#54
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

Recon support:

Forward Riflemen Observers:
  • Make it apply always just like the panzerfus g43 upgrade, it's a completely dedicated commander ability just to do that.
  • Have it apply to recon airborne as well as they are replacing riflemen as the game progresses (they are recon para troopers after all).
  • Increase the sight bonus to 50%, because it is an entire commander ability just for sight, which pf get for getting a no brainer upgrade.
  • Rename the ability to Forward Observers.

IR paths:
  • Decrease call-in cost.
  • Decrease reinforce cost.

M8:
  • General buffs to make it a viable option.
  • Potentially give it the ability to lay an m20 mine with vet (coh1 m8 <444>3 ).

Recon Sweep: There is too much overlap with the major recon and it is too expensive.
  • Decreasing cost to make it fairly cheap, might be an option.
  • (Or) replace it with the recon loiter from tactical support company.
  • (Or) replace it with the flare from Special Ops. (I'd also make this suggestion for mechanized)

Airdropped combat group:
  • Decrease the CP requirement to 5.
  • Change the cost structure (I liked the substitution of manpower for some ammo).
  • Potentially get rid of the atg.
  • Have one airborne drop with zooks and the other unupgraded.


P.S.: I would have suggested fixing mine laying speed, but you already fixed that :D
11 Nov 2017, 13:09 PM
#55
avatar of Sturmmaus

Posts: 25

Is it possible to take some abilities from OST to OKW and vice versa?
11 Nov 2017, 14:09 PM
#56
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1196

Wc51 should be like old kubel í mean supress platform and doctrine is fine!
11 Nov 2017, 14:13 PM
#57
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

Is it possible to take some abilities from OST to OKW and vice versa?


Abilities that don't require vehicles (due to skins) or voicelines should be ok.
11 Nov 2017, 14:22 PM
#58
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1196

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 21:26 PMnigo
Tank Hunter commander - Add Zookas to cons and CE.

And panzerfaust
11 Nov 2017, 15:02 PM
#59
avatar of Nebaka

Posts: 133

Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics
-Hit the Dirt: How about reducing speed instead of immobilizing and some buff against grenades?
-Guards Rifle Infantry: Batton ability is too expensive and easy to avoid

Tank Hunter Tactics
-RPG-40: need changes similar to piats + merged with mines
-new ability Tank Ambush Tactics: toggle ability for T-34, Su-76 and Su-85, when active tank will camouflaged, immobilased + first strike bonus
11 Nov 2017, 15:06 PM
#60
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Nov 2017, 15:02 PMNebaka

-new ability Tank Ambush Tactics: toggle ability for T-34, Su-76 and Su-85, when active tank will camouflaged, immobilased + first strike bonus


Ding, ding, ding!
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