Tell me why OKW deserves better HMG when this is already the best HMG they can think off
Cuz Vipper said so?
Is OKW the Final Boss In This Game?
9 Nov 2017, 19:24 PM
#21
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
Cuz Vipper said so?
9 Nov 2017, 19:25 PM
#22
Posts: 320
If okw don't go for luchs it will get rekt by riflemen. It's like the same thing as preparing for a clown car, bren carrier, etc., there is no counter for it, but to buy raketen.
Reason for luch, is because it's the only way to survive, like you said, when VonIvan went non USF meta he got rekt. Luch is meta for OKW. Play non meta OKW and get destroyed.
I can agree that OKW doesn't get panzer fausts for quite some time compared to ostheer. As you say, they get a raketen. One they can build at the very start of the game mind you, they don't have to tech up or make choices for it. You make it sound bad however that you had to buy a raketen. It can cap points, stealth, and fallback. It will also STILL be useful for any armor that the allies might get out later.
If riflemen were as good as you say they are, they would not get wrecked all the way up until the Luches comes out. Bar'd riflemen are indeed very great, but getting there when getting denied the map is an uphill battle.
9 Nov 2017, 19:35 PM
#23
Posts: 85
Permanently Banned
Yes, OKW player has never blamed his wrong commander choice because no matter what he choses he will have
- Best Heavy Tank, best? Depends, unsupported don't last more than 10 seconds. And hell expensive.
- Strong Mainline and Elite Infantry, strong to what? Volks get rekt by penals, IS, Rifleman.
- Strong Indirect Fire, strong? No, annoying yes. Doesnt wipe units, only reduces health, doesn't clear houses.
- FRP and Emplacement (FlakHQ), like people use them like bofors, and not as lethal unless you are slow thinker. FRP, USF, UKF have one.
- Mines, usf will have mines too.
- Garrison Counters (now even smoke), well it comes with tech and usf have t0
- Cover Building Options, what?
- Light Vehicle, only OKW have such?
- Light AT Vehicle, jesus christ.
- Strong Medium Tank, strong compared to what, most expenisve too? Cromwell, sherman, bad tanks? for 80 fuel t34/76 bad tank? Puma cost more.
- Vet 5, When you see skilltiger vet 5, call me. We can clamp all bonuses into 3 vets, ok, since 5 stars looks so intimidating?
- and All Weapon Teams (some factions won't have access to most team weapons if they chose wrong tech path). Well, OKw truck cost almost the same as soviet t2 or same as t1.
9 Nov 2017, 19:40 PM
#24
Posts: 818
If okw don't go for luchs it will get rekt by riflemen. It's like the same thing as preparing for a clown car, bren carrier, etc., there is no counter for it, but to buy raketen.
Reason for luch, is because it's the only way to survive, like you said, when VonIvan went non USF meta he got rekt. Luch is meta for OKW. Play non meta OKW and get destroyed.
Well I think one reason luchs is meta is because its the only tech thats worth it. T1 sucks as a first tech unless you need isgs to counter some kind of mg spam strat. Flak ht is below average as a light vehicle and it only scales in teamgames when it can murder planes from 4 players lategame.
But you can always build a searchlight after that 300 manpower hq
OKW does have problems, but they don't show up much right now.
Its also why i don't suggest a direct nerf to volks because if rifles stomp them that would be a problem as well.
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9 Nov 2017, 19:41 PM
#25
Posts: 85
Permanently Banned
I can agree that OKW doesn't get panzer fausts for quite some time compared to ostheer. As you say, they get a raketen. One they can build at the very start of the game mind you, they don't have to tech up or make choices for it. You make it sound bad however that you had to buy a raketen. It can cap points, stealth, and fallback. It will also STILL be useful for any armor that the allies might get out later.
If riflemen were as good as you say they are, they would not get wrecked all the way up until the Luches comes out. Bar'd riflemen are indeed very great, but getting there when getting denied the map is an uphill battle.
They are better than volks, what do you mean if were as good. They are just better. Well, if people start comaparing vet. 5 volks to vet. 0 rifleman, then it's obvious.
9 Nov 2017, 19:45 PM
#26
Posts: 85
Permanently Banned
Well I think one reason luchs is meta is because its the only tech thats worth it. T1 sucks as a first tech unless you need isgs to counter some kind of mg spam strat. Flak ht is below average as a light vehicle and it only scales in teamgames when it can murder planes from 4 players lategame.
But you can always build a searchlight after that 300 manpower hq
OKW does have problems, but they don't show up much right now.
Its also why i don't suggest a direct nerf to volks because if rifles stomp them that would be a problem as well.
After sturms got vet.0 medkits t1 became useless in 1v1. And luch don't gib models. Mostly it does damage to health.
9 Nov 2017, 19:48 PM
#27
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
First we need to get rid of "get out of jail free cards" in order to balance OKW.
OKW faction should behave like any other faction. If you make a mistake early on or f*uck it up, you should be punished. Period.
Thats how all GOOD Strategy games work. From Chess, through Starcraft, Aoe's to Civ and HoMnM series.
Having a Mr.Click Me that allows you to bypass any extended early game play or grevious mistakes is a fail on a game design Basis.
Yes, I've been talking about doctrines like Special Ops, Scavenger or Elite Armor.
Commanders should extend your capabilities and allow you to amend your playstyle. They should not save your a**. Period
OKW faction should behave like any other faction. If you make a mistake early on or f*uck it up, you should be punished. Period.
Thats how all GOOD Strategy games work. From Chess, through Starcraft, Aoe's to Civ and HoMnM series.
Having a Mr.Click Me that allows you to bypass any extended early game play or grevious mistakes is a fail on a game design Basis.
Yes, I've been talking about doctrines like Special Ops, Scavenger or Elite Armor.
Commanders should extend your capabilities and allow you to amend your playstyle. They should not save your a**. Period
9 Nov 2017, 19:57 PM
#28
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
OKW doesnt need stronger HMG, its best supression platform in the game (after OST hmg). And once you suppress infantry all you need to do is close in with volks or throw asscheap 15 munny nades. Will work just fine.
Tell me why OKW deserves better HMG when this is already the best HMG they can think off
And yet there is a 100+ post thread trying to prove otherwise because MG34 crews aren't as good in the December patch. Go figure right?
It just tickles me when you see the list of great things OKW has and then people gripe about OKW's support weapons like it's really holding the faction back.
Cuz Vipper said so?
9 Nov 2017, 20:10 PM
#29
Posts: 320
They are better than volks, what do you mean if were as good. They are just better. Well, if people start comaparing vet. 5 volks to vet. 0 rifleman, then it's obvious.
They are about equal with riflemen being slightly better at 20 range and being better the closer the range. Yet volks are cheaper and bleed less. As Volks you can also abuse their huge power spike after teching by using flame nades and STG's to win engagements.
9 Nov 2017, 20:12 PM
#30
Posts: 818
First we need to get rid of "get out of jail free cards" in order to balance OKW.
OKW faction should behave like any other faction. If you make a mistake early on or f*uck it up, you should be punished. Period.
Thats how all GOOD Strategy games work. From Chess, through Starcraft, Aoe's to Civ and HoMnM series.
Having a Mr.Click Me that allows you to bypass any extended early game play or grevious mistakes is a fail on a game design Basis.
Yes, I've been talking about doctrines like Special Ops, Scavenger or Elite Armor.
Commanders should extend your capabilities and allow you to amend your playstyle. They should not save your a**. Period
DOW 2 made it so simple to use call ins by tying them to tech 6 years ago...mabye we can try that
(also t3485s at "0" cps removes the silly waiting for them, same could be done for like halftrack callins, flamehetzer, stuge ect.)
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9 Nov 2017, 20:12 PM
#31
Posts: 46
Cuz Vipper said so?
Vipper "if i spam enough threads whining about nerfs to axis maybe the community team working on DBP will rollback the changes and the games population will slowly die due from axis being overbuffed that would be awesome for me because i am axis fanboy with 0 skill I have 2000 posts and all of them are whining about allies and also 4000 hours in coh2 but my auto targeting LeIG sniper spam isnt winning me enough games in 4v4"
9 Nov 2017, 20:39 PM
#32
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Did you watch VonIvon's hilarious stream the other day when he tried going USF non-meta? He got destroyed so hard it was sad(and funny).
I dont think you should be using random ladder matches from a tired streamer playing after multiple hours, using a semi-serious build, on his second (third?) best faction, playing against similarly skilled opponents (who, presumably, are far less fatigued) as an example for...well...anything.
9 Nov 2017, 20:46 PM
#33
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
USF: I have glaring weaknesses and if I don't pick specific commanders I'm fucked!
I mean, youre not fucked. I use tactical support in 1v1s. Dave (who was #1 usf when he played) used airborne. Armor is honestly not the only viable commander no matter what most people make it seem. Sure its by far the best commander, but there are other, good, viable options that work.
9 Nov 2017, 20:54 PM
#34
Posts: 320
I dont think you should be using random ladder matches from a tired streamer playing after multiple hours, using a semi-serious build, on his second (third?) best faction, playing against similarly skilled opponents (who, presumably, are far less fatigued) as an example for...well...anything.
Jae you were the OKW he fought 3 times in a row that used the luches rush to destroy him. You even made that joke thread about how he BARELY held on until he got a pershing out and won a game.
I also recall this happening near the start of his stream not the end when he said he wanted to reach rank 1 USF.
Who is dave again? I only know of a few people so you'll have to excuse me.
9 Nov 2017, 21:07 PM
#35
Posts: 69
Vipper "if i spam enough threads whining about nerfs to axis maybe the community team working on DBP will rollback the changes and the games population will slowly die due from axis being overbuffed that would be awesome for me because i am axis fanboy with 0 skill I have 2000 posts and all of them are whining about allies and also 4000 hours in coh2 but my auto targeting LeIG sniper spam isnt winning me enough games in 4v4"
He should also ask for a button for OKW to win by just press it...
9 Nov 2017, 21:19 PM
#36
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Who is dave again? I only know of a few people so you'll have to excuse me.
ClassyDave aka Space Marine Dave https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198032338788
One of the best USF 1v1 players - if you go back and search through Dane's casts you find some of him using Airborne to good effect - neat stuff like using Paratrooper's suppressing fire to good effect that you never see. Edit- found one for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An4LNjlJ0XU
9 Nov 2017, 21:57 PM
#37
Posts: 424 | Subs: 2
OKW is essentially USF but better due some key factors. USF lost of light vehicle power, OKW able to rush Luchs, Volksgrenadiers able to upgrade on the field and without having to purchase side tech, teching giving AT guns and HMG without penalty, Sturmpioneers medkit, and finally Kubel.
Kubel allows to quickly cap and decap territory after pushing off a player as compared to a USF player pushing off a OKW player. When you add to fact a OKW player can quickly amass more territory due to Kubel and use Volksgrenadiers with sandbags to hold down it. Volksgrenadiers also bleed less then Rifles but can compete with them at a good price not to mention not having to retreat to base to get weapon upgrades nor having to purchase weapon racks allowing them to remain in the field to hold key points while further OKW anti-infantry firepower. Oh yes by the way Volksgrenadiers can simply counter a unit in a building by running up and using a flame grenade. Once the Luchs come onto the field the USF players has to tech rush for CPT but then they suffer from lack of AI firepower as OKW continues to add to their AI capabilities. OKW then gets Rakets and Volksgrenadiers prevent the Stuart from chasing. Sturmpioneers med kit allows OKW to ignore medics for a decent amount of time and munitions and keep up the pressure while USF has to forgo ambulance to try and rush CPT to get AT out for the luchs rush.
At this point USF is behind anti-infantry to just and try and counter a light vehicle, lacking healing which further adds to USF bleed, and trying to recapture against a superior force. Funny as it's almost like how OST and OKW use to be against USF light vehicles back in the day but that couldn't happen as they fixed light vehicles rush right? USF is screwed either way as you have to go CPT to have AT but then you lack AI options which OKW proceeds to simply keep snowballing.
As others also states OKW also has everything in their line up with sole exception of smoke while having a strong early game, good mid game, and Uber late game.
It's absurd how easy OKW can be and the only reason I have win against OKW is when I simply out skill my opponent. Against a player like, say Luvnest, it becomes a damn nightmare.
Why I go Airborne almost every game against OKW as USF needs a HMG to hold down territory and reduce the bleed USF suffers as I can't go LT because the danger Luchs presents is so significant that it can't be ignored. Marked Raptor also made a excellent statement of how Luchs is almost single handily dictating the meta in one v ones.
Kubel allows to quickly cap and decap territory after pushing off a player as compared to a USF player pushing off a OKW player. When you add to fact a OKW player can quickly amass more territory due to Kubel and use Volksgrenadiers with sandbags to hold down it. Volksgrenadiers also bleed less then Rifles but can compete with them at a good price not to mention not having to retreat to base to get weapon upgrades nor having to purchase weapon racks allowing them to remain in the field to hold key points while further OKW anti-infantry firepower. Oh yes by the way Volksgrenadiers can simply counter a unit in a building by running up and using a flame grenade. Once the Luchs come onto the field the USF players has to tech rush for CPT but then they suffer from lack of AI firepower as OKW continues to add to their AI capabilities. OKW then gets Rakets and Volksgrenadiers prevent the Stuart from chasing. Sturmpioneers med kit allows OKW to ignore medics for a decent amount of time and munitions and keep up the pressure while USF has to forgo ambulance to try and rush CPT to get AT out for the luchs rush.
At this point USF is behind anti-infantry to just and try and counter a light vehicle, lacking healing which further adds to USF bleed, and trying to recapture against a superior force. Funny as it's almost like how OST and OKW use to be against USF light vehicles back in the day but that couldn't happen as they fixed light vehicles rush right? USF is screwed either way as you have to go CPT to have AT but then you lack AI options which OKW proceeds to simply keep snowballing.
As others also states OKW also has everything in their line up with sole exception of smoke while having a strong early game, good mid game, and Uber late game.
It's absurd how easy OKW can be and the only reason I have win against OKW is when I simply out skill my opponent. Against a player like, say Luvnest, it becomes a damn nightmare.
Why I go Airborne almost every game against OKW as USF needs a HMG to hold down territory and reduce the bleed USF suffers as I can't go LT because the danger Luchs presents is so significant that it can't be ignored. Marked Raptor also made a excellent statement of how Luchs is almost single handily dictating the meta in one v ones.
9 Nov 2017, 22:04 PM
#38
Posts: 2742
Volks stgs and incendiary nades screwed the pooch with OKW pretty hard.
Both are results of addressing a problem in a vacuum (volks schrecks overperforming and OKWs inability to handle maxim garrisons respectively).
And then maxims got changed, and the handheld AT weapon xp issues were addressed later...
Both are results of addressing a problem in a vacuum (volks schrecks overperforming and OKWs inability to handle maxim garrisons respectively).
And then maxims got changed, and the handheld AT weapon xp issues were addressed later...
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
9 Nov 2017, 23:15 PM
#39
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Don't make me crush your arguements Hector 
9 Nov 2017, 23:31 PM
#40
Posts: 808
ohhh booo hooo OKW is the only faction that can stand against my glorious allied factions so lets just nerf it like we do to ostheer so we can roftstomp them too
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