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16 Dec 2017, 17:34 PM
#1641
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

They are better in DBP, because they have the same performance with grens on long range and a bit better on short ranges. Its making them more useful than grens on start of the game (and they have hoorah, what giving more mobility). In the mid/early game they get PPSH-41, what making them better than grens with LMG (they just dive into grens and beat them, like in my tests) and with "Hit the dirt!" they easylly killing HMGs and PGs. Sniper dont do a huge perfomance, because they have a 6 mens at squad, mortar are weak against mobility infantery btw.
Idk how to counter it in DBP, same with Den.
16 Dec 2017, 20:05 PM
#1642
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I don't know how you came to that conclusion. It's all about scaling and investment - all mainline infantry should scale roughly the same given cost and munitions investment. My point is just that USF and UKF don't have doctrinal elite infantry so they should have a slightly higher ceiling via double upgrade than Volks or Grens (because they have Panzergrens and Obers for late game Infantry support). Ideally Rifles and Tommies are never going to be better (generally speaking) at all points in the game vs. Volks and Grens but they have to be good enough in the late game. This should be obvious with how the DBP is slightly scaling back Volks late game scaling and making Obers more accessible and before that the buff Panzergrens got. Basically Rifles and Tommies should be able to deal with axis elite infantry with roughly the same amount of ease that Grens and Volks can deal with double upgraded Allied Squads or Allied Elites. (In my opinion of course)
so you mean that elite squad should squash up RM/IS cause RM/IS squash up volks and green (1 bar> 2 stg)
16 Dec 2017, 20:20 PM
#1643
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Leaving balance aside for the moment what's Hit the Dirt for? What does it allow Conscripts to do that they couldn't do otherwise?
16 Dec 2017, 20:22 PM
#1644
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2017, 20:20 PMLago
Leaving balance aside for the moment what's Hit the Dirt for? What does it allow Conscripts to do that they couldn't do otherwise?
can't get suppressed , reduced damage and recived accuracy
16 Dec 2017, 21:04 PM
#1645
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
I'd love to know how people feel about the new Brit section. After watching some DBP replays from top players the Brit meta of section spam hasn't changed at all.
16 Dec 2017, 21:16 PM
#1646
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

can't get suppressed , reduced damage and recived accuracy


That's what it does. I'm more interested in what it's used for.

It sounds like a tool to boost your stats in an infantry fight and a tool to charge and kill HMGs head on. The first is fairly dull and the second is something I'm not sure infantry should have.

What if it was reworked into an infantry version of Brace? You get heavy damage reduction but the squad's accuracy and firing rate goes through the floor and you're immobilized on top of that.

That turns it into a tool for buying time. You won't win any one on one infantry fights with it but it allows you to stall while an allied squad moves in to support. You can't use it to kill an HMG head on but you can use it to survive its fire for a bit while a friendly squad flanks it. You could also use it as an indirect fire or grenade panic button - not as good as getting out of the way but better than staying put without it.
16 Dec 2017, 21:17 PM
#1647
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2017, 21:16 PMLago


That's what it does. I'm more interested in what it's used for.

It sounds like a tool to boost your stats in an infantry fight and a tool to charge and kill HMGs head on. The first is fairly dull and the second is something I'm not sure infantry should have.

What if it was reworked into an infantry version of Brace? You get heavy damage reduction but the squad's accuracy and firing rate goes through the floor and you're immobilized on top of that.

That turns it into a tool for buying time. You won't win any one on one infantry fights with it but it allows you to stall while an allied squad moves in to support. You can't use it to kill an HMG head on but you can use it to survive its fire for a bit while a friendly squad flanks it. You could also use it as an indirect fire or grenade panic button - not as good as getting out of the way but better than staying put without it.

You essentially described what it already does and why it would already be used.
16 Dec 2017, 21:18 PM
#1648
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2017, 21:16 PMLago


That's what it does. I'm more interested in what it's used for.

It sounds like a tool to boost your stats in an infantry fight and a tool to charge and kill HMGs head on. The first is fairly dull and the second is something I'm not sure infantry should have.

What if it was reworked into an infantry version of Brace? You get heavy damage reduction but the squad's accuracy and firing rate goes through the floor and you're immobilized on top of that.

That turns it into a tool for buying time. You won't win any one on one infantry fights with it but it allows you to stall while an allied squad moves in to support. You can't use it to kill an HMG head on but you can use it to survive its fire for a bit while a friendly squad flanks it. You could also use it as an indirect fire or grenade panic button - not as good as getting out of the way but better than staying put without it.

+1, thats good idea, its still will be useful and not OP, like now. Now thats working just like you said.

You essentially described what it already does and why it would already be used.

No, now its just a easy way to kill HMG face to face and buff for static fights.
16 Dec 2017, 21:20 PM
#1649
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

You essentially described what it already does and why it would already be used.


I thought it had no offense penalties at the moment.
16 Dec 2017, 21:22 PM
#1650
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2017, 21:20 PMLago


I thought it had no offense penalties at the moment.

The way it is. He just wrong.
17 Dec 2017, 01:06 AM
#1651
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

hope to see the patch go live this coming week!
17 Dec 2017, 02:59 AM
#1652
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2


No, now its just a easy way to kill HMG face to face and buff for static fights.

Yes, it currently can be used that way, just like it always could. But it can also be used the way he just described he wanted it to be used.
It's also hardly a "buff" for static fights.
17 Dec 2017, 08:20 AM
#1653
avatar of Denchicpsih

Posts: 32

Changes to the line infantry are affecting the whole match, not only infantry engagements. You must be really careful with this thing. But you nerfed OKW to the oblivion. And BTW, UKF is still gay
17 Dec 2017, 12:16 PM
#1654
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Dec 2017, 09:57 AMEsxile


Ostwind and Luch have something to tell you...



Both aren't generalist and both lack the ai utility/performance of m8 or the support of several at units with ai avilities (su/zis) or premiums generalist/specialized anti infantry heavy like comet/churchill...

BS:
"My bar/bren blob should waste more expensive elite doctrinal/non doc infantry in 1vs1 because i have no other ai option"
17 Dec 2017, 12:25 PM
#1655
17 Dec 2017, 12:31 PM
#1656
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Is there a reason the MG isn't in cover (most players don't leave an mg sitting out in the open). Also saying nothing changes isn't quite correct, as both squads nearly died.

Really ?
:facepalm:
17 Dec 2017, 12:46 PM
#1657
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

Ok, replay now:

And now we have: Ostheer-1, Sov-7, after 8 games.
17 Dec 2017, 13:00 PM
#1658
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Ok, replay now:

And now we have: Ostheer-1, Sov-7, after 8 games.


This looks like an MG micro problem to me.

The build-order is completely atypical. I don't know of anybody that ever builds their first MG after 2 grens and a sniper.

Then, the MG is playing completely passive, firing at bad targets; e.g., vs garrisoned conscripts at max range, whereas it could have been used at other areas of the map, e.g., suppressing the rest of the conscript hordes.

PS: YEAH, WE GET IT. Hit the Dirt is OP. We're already nerfing it for the live version. Do you have any examples of conscripts PPSh where Hit-the-dirt was not used?
17 Dec 2017, 13:10 PM
#1659
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Ok, replay now:

And now we have: Ostheer-1, Sov-7, after 8 games.


Interesting, we play ostheer and OKW vs soviets without ppsh, and soviet have 0 wins :snfPeter:
17 Dec 2017, 13:19 PM
#1660
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88



This looks like an MG micro problem to me.

The build-order is completely atypical. I don't know of anybody that ever builds their first MG after 2 grens and a sniper.

Then, the MG is playing completely passive, firing at bad targets; e.g., vs garrisoned conscripts at max range, whereas it could have been used at other areas of the map, e.g., suppressing the rest of the conscript hordes.

PS: YEAH, WE GET IT. Hit the Dirt is OP. We're already nerfing it for the live version. Do you have any examples of conscripts PPSh where Hit-the-dirt was not used?

I played 2 times without "Hit the dirt!", but I have not a replays. Thats happens not only in one game, we trying to build 2 HMG and HMG as a first unit, its just dont working.
Its cant be micro problem, we played 8 games as Sov-Ostheer (with the changing of the sides) and in all games we have the same result. We trying to use everything and only one thing works - assault grenadiers. If you dont choose mech assault commander - you loose. Everytime.
You cant stop 5cons with one HMG, but if you build more, then this game will last until the first mistake - when you retreat all HMGs and Sov capturing all the map.
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