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10 Dec 2017, 18:06 PM
#1361
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1182

So no response to the gross overnerf of the luchs timing? At least try here Modders, because people are losing faith in you being unbiased here.

Relasing such a change at the very last version of the patch.....what the hell ?
10 Dec 2017, 18:21 PM
#1362
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

I wonder what the balnce team thinks about this, that a squad can go in the open and still win with no hurra seems realllllyyyy balanced
btw could ypu try mg 34 and no mg 34 ober ?
and try to mix hurra

Sure. Obers and some other axis inf squads:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208430893
And obers withot LMG (i forgot about without LMG test first time):
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208432772
10 Dec 2017, 18:39 PM
#1363
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306


Sure. Obers and some other axis inf squads:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208430893
And obers withot LMG (i forgot about without LMG test first time):
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208432772
think all of this but with hurra and hit the dirt on cover ,cons meta boys
10 Dec 2017, 18:44 PM
#1364
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

think all of this but with hurra and hit the dirt on cover ,cons meta boys

Another one test. Here i try falls to win this and they do it, but first time with a officier and second time with a random (need to press stop after ourrah ("УРРРАААА!!!!!:D) to make them shooting or they lost).
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208436011
10 Dec 2017, 18:45 PM
#1365
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1254 | Subs: 14

So no response to the gross overnerf of the luchs timing? At least try here Modders, because people are losing faith in you being unbiased here.


People we have talked about regarding Luchs -such as Luvnest and Dave who we consider to be good players- their main issue with the Luchs is the fact it arrives too early in the game compared to other light tank/light tank-esque vehicles hence the change. Originally I suggested the Mechanized and Luchs both get 15 seconds on their build timer, though people would just plop down the Mech truck sooner.

If anyone has a better suggestion regarding the early Luchs timing, feel free to put it in.
10 Dec 2017, 18:46 PM
#1366
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88



People we have talked about regarding Luchs -such as Luvnest and Dave who we consider to be good players- their main issue with the Luchs is the fact it arrives too early in the game compared to other light tank/light tank-esque vehicles hence the change. Originally I suggested the Mechanized and Luchs both get 15 seconds on their build timer, though people would just plop down the Mech truck sooner.

If anyone has a better suggestion regarding the early Luchs timing, feel free to put it in.

80 sec is too huge. I think one minute producing time will be good.
10 Dec 2017, 18:51 PM
#1367
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18


I installed OBS, specially for you. Simple tests show us a simple true - falls are trash in current DBP patch.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208418162


Thx for the report. I went through the veterancy files, and it seems that the intended +15% accuracy bonus at Vet5 is not applying properly.
10 Dec 2017, 18:56 PM
#1368
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88



Thx for the report. I went through the veterancy files, and it seems that the intended +15% accuracy bonus at Vet5 is not applying properly.

No problem. But i think +15% accuracy dont changes that. In my opinion they need to be as PG in this test, but deal more damage on high and mid range, when PG deals more damage on mid and short range.
10 Dec 2017, 19:00 PM
#1369
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2


No problem. But i think +15% accuracy dont changes that. In my opinion they need to be as PG in this test, but deal more damage on high and mid range, when PG deals more damage on mid and short range.


And it was like this since day 1. Falsch deal more damage at distance (much more) while PzGrens at point blank
10 Dec 2017, 19:18 PM
#1370
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88



And it was like this since day 1. Falsch deal more damage at distance (much more) while PzGrens at point blank

Read again my post:

No problem. But i think +15% accuracy dont changes that. In my opinion they need to be as PG in this test, but deal more damage on high and mid range, when PG deals more damage on mid and short range.

in this test - So i mean what falls need to kill a cons without a chances for them, like that doing PGs, but deal more of the total damage on long and mid range.
Now they really better on long range than PG, but they cant kill cons without RNG, at the same time PGs killing cons everytime without losses a more than one model.
10 Dec 2017, 19:45 PM
#1371
avatar of Muad'Dib

Posts: 354

So i mean what falls need to kill a cons without a chances for them, like that doing PGs, but deal more of the total damage on long and mid range.
Now they really better on long range than PG, but they cant kill cons without RNG, at the same time PGs killing cons everytime without losses a more than one model.


I am not saying Falls are fine necessarily, but there are many factors that are not encompassed by a single test like this one, e.g. utility (grenades + faust), camouflage, the fact they paradrop, the fact that mid- and long range units tend to be safer from wipes in general.
10 Dec 2017, 19:45 PM
#1372
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



People we have talked about regarding Luchs -such as Luvnest and Dave who we consider to be good players- their main issue with the Luchs is the fact it arrives too early in the game compared to other light tank/light tank-esque vehicles hence the change. Originally I suggested the Mechanized and Luchs both get 15 seconds on their build timer, though people would just plop down the Mech truck sooner.

If anyone has a better suggestion regarding the early Luchs timing, feel free to put it in.


That luchs arrival time nerf seems way too hard. Especially for 2.0 possible final iteration of the preview. The issue with luchs as I see it currently is the perfect meta, as well as some faction design flaws.

Luchs runs rampant because 19/20 penals will not snare it, USF requires vet 1, which you may or may not have based on fighting, and UKF require the boys AT rifles. The luchs is an AI light tank, it is supposed to be strong vs infantry when used correctly.

Handheld AT bug is fixed, which will indirectly nerf all vehicles.

USF can go captain for an AT gun, or rely on zooks. UKF will always have access to the 6 pounder, even though they don't have snares. Soviets will now spam conscripts and probably go T2 for maxims and a zis. Cons also have AT nades and oorah.

Allies light vehicles can all deal with the luchs. And I mean every single one aside from the M5 meatgrinder. M20 mines, AAHT (difficult), stuart, AEC, T70, Su76.

The meta will soon shape to be able to counter the luchs more effectivly. So I don't think such a drastic change was needed last minute.

OKW currently crutches on mechanized to keep their momentum or you lose to the stronger infantry of the allies once they get upgraded and obers arrive to late. Maybe with the HMG34 buffs and LeIG rework it'll allow for med truck, but if it appears to be too weak OKW will be wiped from 1v1 ladder.

I agree with dangerous cloth. 60 seconds would have been a fine change if anything.


As much as I like luvnest and dave, more goes into being a top player than just knowing the game. You need to be good at micro, know counters, vet etc. If you excel at one of these areas you can theoredically compensate for maybe a lack in other areas. Such as having excellent micro but not knowing stats and chances to pen etc. Nothing against those players, but I don't think they'd be the absolute best choice when coming to balance arguements.
10 Dec 2017, 19:56 PM
#1373
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88



I am not saying Falls are fine necessarily, but there are many factors that are not encompassed by a single test like this one, e.g. utility (grenades + faust), camouflage, the fact they paradrop, the fact that mid- and long range units tend to be safer from wipes in general.

Obers are long-mid range unit and have too some usefull supporting abilities, but they cos 340 MP in DBP and killing cons in this test without LMG before cons supressed.
Camo making falls a unique OKW unit, but dont making them better (as you remember wehr Stormtroopers have camo too, but they killing a cons without a loosing any model).
And in this test i tried to make a good environment for falls (green cover, cons come from long range without "ourah", and etc.), but they still losing most of tests.
10 Dec 2017, 20:11 PM
#1374
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18





As much as I like luvnest and dave, more goes into being a top player than just knowing the game. You need to be good at micro, know counters, vet etc. If you excel at one of these areas you can theoredically compensate for maybe a lack in other areas. Such as having excellent micro but not knowing stats and chances to pen etc. Nothing against those players, but I don't think they'd be the absolute best choice when coming to balance arguements.


If we are going to take Luvnest's opinion as the bible, who do we ask, then?

Luchs 85 secs build time isn't so tragic as it sounds. I mean, M20 has a 60 second build time, and it also deadlocks your LT tier build order until it's ready.
10 Dec 2017, 20:14 PM
#1375
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



If we are going to take Luvnest's opinion as the bible, who do we ask, then?


Me, vipper, cruzz, multiple pros, sturmpanther, dangerous cloth, A soldier just to name a few. Not everything we say is perfect but I think these people i've listed have shown they can offer valued input with minimal bias at times.

although i havn't seen vipper in awhile :(
10 Dec 2017, 20:16 PM
#1376
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 671



If we are going to take Luvnest's opinion as the bible, who do we ask, then?


i highly doubt anyone one of them suggested a 80 second delay for a p2. make it 50-60 second delay
10 Dec 2017, 20:17 PM
#1377
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2017, 20:16 PMAlphrum


i highly doubt anyone one of them suggested a 80 second delay for a p2. make it 50-60 second delay


Luchs needs to come about 45 seconds later than it does in live.

If you can find us an alternative way to implement this, we'd be happy to hear it. So far this is the only solution that works. Do you prefer throwing a 22-fuel nerfhammer on Mech->Luchs builds instead?

10 Dec 2017, 20:23 PM
#1378
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5029 | Subs: 18



If we are going to take Luvnest's opinion as the bible, who do we ask, then?

Luchs 85 secs build time isn't so tragic as it sounds. I mean, M20 has a 60 second build time, and it also deadlocks your LT tier build order until it's ready.


Make Luchs to 70 sec and M20 to 45 sec? :)

Or would M20 rush kill Wehrmacht player?

Btw T70 vs Luchs:

It kind of sucks tbh. You can't really kill with a t70 a luchs. Takes too long and then ofc raktenwerfer as well.

But luchs > T70 vs inf imo in live version ( but t70 comes way later then a luchs xDD)
10 Dec 2017, 20:27 PM
#1379
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1431

Can anyone explain why sections were buffed instead of nerfed. After the volk nerf, live game sections will be borderline op and now they are getting even better? Makes zero sense.
10 Dec 2017, 20:30 PM
#1380
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

Can anyone explain why sections were buffed instead of nerfed. After the volk nerf, live game sections will be borderline op and now they are getting even better? Makes zero sense.


Can you explain how you misread an obvious banhammer for a buff?


  • Infantry sections no longer benefit from 0.9 RA in cover (would apply any time a section would touch cover, regardless of direction)
  • Infantry section Vet2 RA bonus lowered from 0.76 to 0.78
  • Infantry sections no longer gain 2 Scoped Enfield at Vet3
  • Infantry section moving Enfield accuracy changed from 0.25 to 0.35

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