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6 Nov 2017, 14:04 PM
#421
avatar of TheLaGmAn

Posts: 8

heavy super tanks like Kingtiger, JT and elefant are the endgame option for axis to deal with all the BS unit from allie faction.

ever played with stugs/ panthers vs fireflys or su85? its a cancer since ost has no doc endgame TD...


I agree (partially).
Yes, JT and ELE are endgame option to deal with FF and su85, but if when you lose it you just call in a new one, then it doesnt make much sense.
Limiting it to 1 per player per game makes the player keep the unit alive and reward the allies for destroying it.
Its very hard to destroy a jadg just going in with su85s pushing from the front.
If you invest in like 4 t34s/85 and you manage to stuck the jad and then destroy it, you will probably lose the 4 t34s (assuming the axis have a panther, at and volks to panzerfaust) and thats 500 fuel, if okw just calls in a new one right after that, it makes no sense. You need more skill to destroy a jadg than to use it.
You need to spend 500 fuel and time to rebuild what they called in instantly for 280.
(Yes, asuming you have the MP and fuel ofc).
6 Nov 2017, 14:24 PM
#422
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1933



I agree (partially).
Yes, JT and ELE are endgame option to deal with FF and su85, but if when you lose it you just call in a new one, then it doesnt make much sense.
Limiting it to 1 per player per game makes the player keep the unit alive and reward the allies for destroying it.
Its very hard to destroy a jadg just going in with su85s pushing from the front.
If you invest in like 4 t34s/85 and you manage to stuck the jad and then destroy it, you will probably lose the 4 t34s (assuming the axis have a panther, at and volks to panzerfaust) and thats 500 fuel, if okw just calls in a new one right after that, it makes no sense. You need more skill to destroy a jadg than to use it.
You need to spend 500 fuel and time to rebuild what they called in instantly for 280.
(Yes, asuming you have the MP and fuel ofc).



its not that there are no counters to JT...

- sovjts diving bombs (doc) are really strong to a engine destroyed JT..
- mark target is really strong
- come with on t34 from side....it turns around to destroy it...and div in with 1-2 Paks + 1-2 TD...it will be killed
- div in with something and activte for mother russia with penals + satchel charges...kill
- use B4 from sovjet and kill it with one lucky shot
- faust it and souuround it with AT and tanks...
- use 2 fireflys and hold it 10sec in stuns...while you kill it easily
- use artillery cover and div in with tanks...kill it...
and so on...


its not unkillable....only if u dont have a strategie...but for its cost...it need less strategie as u need vs a early bofors / sim city...much less
6 Nov 2017, 14:50 PM
#423
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1588 | Subs: 3

Wehrmacht commander with:
- Elephant
- Bomb
- Reconnaissance aircraft

OP and requires redesign
6 Nov 2017, 15:05 PM
#424
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742 | Subs: 1

Wehrmacht commander with:
- Elephant
- Bomb
- Reconnaissance aircraft

OP and requires redesign


Ding ding ding.

Elefant itself is alright, but one of the commanders it comes in circumvents it's biggest weakness: arti.

It can recon for the Elefant or the dive bomb to remove ant on map artillery.

The Hulldown elefant commander I think is much more balanced.
6 Nov 2017, 16:45 PM
#425
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2030

Why is the soviet 80mm mortar not getting some love? This is one of the Soviet units that is just ridiculously UP and thus almost never used in serious games.
6 Nov 2017, 16:46 PM
#426
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2030

Wehrmacht commander with:
- Elephant
- Bomb
- Reconnaissance aircraft

OP and requires redesign


Yeah true...You also forgot the mention tank scopes which make Elefant and Stug too good.
6 Nov 2017, 16:57 PM
#427
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1588 | Subs: 3

Why is the soviet 80mm mortar not getting some love? This is one of the Soviet units that is just ridiculously UP and thus almost never used in serious games.

I also agrees, and already made a bunch of screenshots where my mortar (made at the beginning of the match) made zero or a few kills in the 20 th minute of the match, with this I constantly nursed him.
6 Nov 2017, 16:59 PM
#428
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2030


I also agrees, and already made a bunch of screenshots where my mortar (made at the beginning of the match) made zero or a few kills in the 20 th minute of the match, with this I constantly nursed him.


Yeah. The only really useful thing it offers is to pop smoke while you try to clear out garrisons, especially MGs. Sure if you have very good RNG even the soviet mortar can prove to be efficient but most of the time it just flat out sucks.
6 Nov 2017, 19:30 PM
#429
avatar of dOPEnEWhAIRCUT

Posts: 239

There's plenty of evidence within this thread that at least one of the members on the mod team that is driving the direction of "balance" has very little knowledge of how things currently work in CoH2 in terms of actual gameplay. This patch pretty much pushes the game to an unrecoverable state if it is released as is. With this patch (and any future patches released by the same team) the game will never be competitive, and it's chances of actually being enjoyable to play for each faction are practically zero. It'd be great if the vocal minority could just for a second think of how fun it's going to be to sit in the lobby, searching for a game at 100% allies, and voice some concern on the direction of this game - at least if any of you want any more longevity from CoH2.
6 Nov 2017, 19:40 PM
#430
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 741 | Subs: 2

It'd be great if the vocal minority could just for a second think of how fun it's going to be to sit in the lobby, searching for a game at 100% allies, and voice some concern on the direction of this game - at least if any of you want any more longevity from CoH2.


:lolol: This is hilarious.
6 Nov 2017, 19:52 PM
#431
avatar of dOPEnEWhAIRCUT

Posts: 239



:lolol: This is hilarious.


As is the state of the game and the direction it's headed.
7 Nov 2017, 04:34 AM
#432
avatar of CobaltX105

Posts: 85

I'm seeing a DBP V1.2.1 by Relic in the workshop. I'm assuming that's the newly uploaded patch and the old one still wouldn't update?
7 Nov 2017, 05:18 AM
#433
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1253 | Subs: 14

That would be correct. Troubleshooting is still going on regarding the uploading/updating.
7 Nov 2017, 08:37 AM
#434
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned



its not that there are no counters to JT...

- sovjts diving bombs (doc) are really strong to a engine destroyed JT..
- mark target is really strong
- come with on t34 from side....it turns around to destroy it...and div in with 1-2 Paks + 1-2 TD...it will be killed
- div in with something and activte for mother russia with penals + satchel charges...kill
- use B4 from sovjet and kill it with one lucky shot
- faust it and souuround it with AT and tanks...
- use 2 fireflys and hold it 10sec in stuns...while you kill it easily
- use artillery cover and div in with tanks...kill it...
and so on...


its not unkillable....only if u dont have a strategie...but for its cost...it need less strategie as u need vs a early bofors / sim city...much less


I dont smile or cry, when you write about il-2 and b4 like counter to JT ). IL-2 is so good counter, can get down by okw base AA, do not work in some maps coz thay are big and when il-2 come its will be to late ). b4 is very fun, with such small AOE or bad accuracy try to hot JT its total RNG and even you hit it, its still 640 damage ). Waht range are of FF rockets and what range have JT ?
7 Nov 2017, 08:38 AM
#435
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
There's plenty of evidence within this thread that at least one of the members on the mod team that is driving the direction of "balance" has very little knowledge of how things currently work in CoH2 in terms of actual gameplay. This patch pretty much pushes the game to an unrecoverable state if it is released as is. With this patch (and any future patches released by the same team) the game will never be competitive, and it's chances of actually being enjoyable to play for each faction are practically zero. It'd be great if the vocal minority could just for a second think of how fun it's going to be to sit in the lobby, searching for a game at 100% allies, and voice some concern on the direction of this game - at least if any of you want any more longevity from CoH2.


Isnt balance now in same sitation , but with axis searching ?:snfPeter:
7 Nov 2017, 09:26 AM
#436
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1933



I dont smile or cry, when you write about il-2 and b4 like counter to JT ). IL-2 is so good counter, can get down by okw base AA, do not work in some maps coz thay are big and when il-2 come its will be to late ). b4 is very fun, with such small AOE or bad accuracy try to hot JT its total RNG and even you hit it, its still 640 damage ). Waht range are of FF rockets and what range have JT ?


sooo...?

in this game frost was able to destroy 2 Panthers only with its arty!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7Zos4uNINw

and panthers are known as very mobile....not the JT...so its should really possible to hit the JT with this big guns

come with argues thats are true...
7 Nov 2017, 12:19 PM
#437
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 741 | Subs: 2



sooo...?

in this game frost able to destroy 2 Panthers only with its arty!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7Zos4uNINw

and panthers are known as very mobile....not the JT...so its should really possible to hit the JT with this big guns

come with argues thats are true...


Let's just ignore how the B-4 is using Direct shot on the Panther when he is standing right in front of it.
7 Nov 2017, 12:45 PM
#438
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1933



Let's just ignore how the B-4 is using Direct shot on the Panther when he is standing right in front of it.


did i have say somehting other about it?

i said it is really not that hard to kill a tank with this gun....and a JT is often at one good spot and dont drive around the map...so what is your argue here??
7 Nov 2017, 13:55 PM
#439
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


sooo...?

in this game frost was able to destroy 2 Panthers only with its arty!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7Zos4uNINw

and panthers are known as very mobile....not the JT...so its should really possible to hit the JT with this big guns

come with argues thats are true...


ROLF
I see repley where kuble kill sherman, can i use argument that kuble counter shermans ?
Use one example from 1v1 where are 0 JT in game, how b4 is counter for JT is such bad argument.
So i can use you arguments, all allies vehicles can be counter with skill planes, so no reason to complaine about alleis mediums or TD ).
7 Nov 2017, 13:56 PM
#440
avatar of TheLaGmAn

Posts: 8



did i have say somehting other about it?

i said it is really not that hard to kill a tank with this gun....and a JT is often at one good spot and dont drive around the map...so what is your argue here??


If you manage to kill it with a B4, kudos to you, but its not something normal to do vs a good player, so we can also say that a stuart can kill a jadg, and yes, it can, and who knows, maybe there is a replay somewhere showing it.

The ways to kill it are vast, from a stuart to a an engineer who picked up a ptrss and did the final shot on it, but thats not the point here, the point is the amount of resources you have to put into killing it and brain to do so.

Vs good players:

- sovjts diving bombs (doc) are really strong to a engine destroyed JT..
First you must engine-destroy it, have vision and have ammo to use it, have that doc and also manage to hit it in the right spot while its moving (Even with eng dmg)

- mark target is really strong
It is, but you still need to hit it to do dmg.

- come with on t34 from side....it turns around to destroy it...and div in with 1-2 Paks + 1-2 TD...it will be killed
It will, but how did you manage to do that? first, you are already talking about coming from the side, so theres no one there? theres only one jadg on the map? there is usually one panther, a rak and thats just the okw player and volks to faust your t34 engine, and thats just one player.
Whoever keepst he jadg in range of the at guns or did not see the flank happening, thats just says a lot.

- div in with something and activte for mother russia with penals + satchel charges...kill
Good, but, how many satchels you need? because, you know, the first one wont even do eng damage, how many penals do you have? Also, there are no mgs or anything to stuck you? And if you manage to kill it, while you throw the satchel to an apparently non-moving jadg, how much mp will you waste doing so?

- use B4 from sovjet and kill it with one lucky shot
Lucky shot, if we are talking about lucky tactics we can just hope for his game to crash, lucky, we won, he crashed and the IA took over.

- faust it and souuround it with AT and tanks...
Again, a jadg alone? sure, do that, but if he has a jadg alone then its not the players im aiming to.

- use 2 fireflys and hold it 10sec in stuns...while you kill it easily
A valid tactic, but if he keeps range, you are fucked, also the tulips take a while to shot, if he stays in range of your firefly static while he sees a firefly, its on him.

- use artillery cover and div in with tanks...kill it...
and so on...
Doc dependent, but yes, this could work, but still, how much you have to invest?



Im not saying its impossible, far from it, you can kill it, no problem, what im saying is, the investment you have to put it must be rewarded, do not allow the player to call in another jadg, so hes punished by losing it or leaving it alone.
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