Login

russian armor

Kick out 4vs4 maps

7 Aug 2017, 14:25 PM
#21
avatar of RoswellBonewell

Posts: 38



I agree on Lienne Forest. The middle is an interesting dynamic where one side gets an awesome garrison, but later on have a disadvantage due to being blocked off by the railway. And the left is an urban fight, wrestling for control of the garrison next to the VP and surrounding garrisons. The right is just.... ugh. Especially once a Bofors or such goes down.


Lienne Forest is a decent map but suffers from several annoyances.
1. Right side is a 1v1...boring. Most teams abandon it since it lacks a resource incentive.
2. Middle is imbalanced as noted.
3. The city is just "Who has the better MG/mortar wins". Not too much skill involved.
4. RUS Urban Defense commander is OP as hell on the city. Almost an InstaWin. Not really a map issue.
5. A lot of maps that people say are Axis favored, I dont normally see at my low skill level. Steppes for instance I see RUS heavies doing very well on it. But Lienne I see Axis dominate a lot late game. Probably an L2P issue???

7 Aug 2017, 21:02 PM
#22
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

People like Liene forest but the initial rush to garrison the western city is a game decider too often.
I have never seen forces rape northern base. The south base always gets raped. That can't be correct balance.
7 Aug 2017, 21:08 PM
#23
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35

People like Liene forest but the initial rush to garrison the western city is a game decider too often.
I have never seen forces rape northern base. The south base always gets raped. That can't be correct balance.


Intresting:

Fact is: south side gets faster in the big middle building then north side :P
8 Aug 2017, 02:25 AM
#24
avatar of RoswellBonewell

Posts: 38



Intresting:

Fact is: south side gets faster in the big middle building then north side :P



The south gets there quicker but the main building on the road has fewer windows and gets rekt from the several buildings across the street. That only leaves the building just south of the VP. Which is quickly destroyed by mortar. Then you have NO garrisons vs the 3 or 4 across the street. Maybe this was meant to be, in some form of asymmetric balance, just like the middle VP building? Left gets the better buildings on the south. Middle gets the northern building. Both are somewhat flankable.

Sometimes when you make a map, you just try to make it look cool and somewhat realistic. There are no symmetric towns in the world right?
8 Aug 2017, 08:43 AM
#25
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35




The south gets there quicker but the main building on the road has fewer windows and gets rekt from the several buildings across the street. That only leaves the building just south of the VP. Which is quickly destroyed by mortar. Then you have NO garrisons vs the 3 or 4 across the street. Maybe this was meant to be, in some form of asymmetric balance, just like the middle VP building? Left gets the better buildings on the south. Middle gets the northern building. Both are somewhat flankable.

Sometimes when you make a map, you just try to make it look cool and somewhat realistic. There are no symmetric towns in the world right?


Not all maps should be mirrowed.

For example the middle house. Yes you can have a MG there etc. But in latgame you will hate the house when you drive with your tanks :P
9 Aug 2017, 01:27 AM
#26
avatar of RoswellBonewell

Posts: 38



Not all maps should be mirrowed.

For example the middle house. Yes you can have a MG there etc. But in latgame you will hate the house when you drive with your tanks :P


Since no one else is saying much:
Yes, but if your Axis and you back in between the houses you cant be flanked. You get instant frontal shots only. Probably why Axis wins from the North so much.
Your move....kappa
10 Aug 2017, 14:45 PM
#27
avatar of lel69fgt

Posts: 41

Permanently Banned
We're seeing same maps 24/7 anyway, I would love to see some new stuff instead.
10 Aug 2017, 15:02 PM
#28
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35

We're seeing same maps 24/7 anyway, I would love to see some new stuff instead.


I guess there are no Mapmakers out who created new good 4vs4 maps.

Also missing good 3vs3 maps. Thats the reason why many 3 premade searching for 4vs4.
10 Aug 2017, 16:05 PM
#29
avatar of LordRommel
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 278 | Subs: 1



I guess there are no Mapmakers out who created new good 4vs4 maps.

Also missing good 3vs3 maps. Thats the reason why many 3 premade searching for 4vs4.


Problem is: Why should we work on 4on4 maps?
The amount of feedback for maps is very limited and most of the feedback is toxic.
I cant see any way to make new high-quality 4on4 maps in the near future.
10 Aug 2017, 16:19 PM
#30
avatar of MonolithicBacon
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 952 | Subs: 3



Problem is: Why should we work on 4on4 maps?
The amount of feedback for maps is very limited and most of the feedback is toxic.
I cant see any way to make new high-quality 4on4 maps in the near future.


I completely agree. Even after all these years, a 1vs1 map design alone will take me 20-30 hours before testing.

4vs4 maps are a massive time commitment, and certainly not worth the response we usually get for making them.
10 Aug 2017, 16:45 PM
#31
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

All maps, 1v1 through 4v4s, suffer from a crippling lack of options to make a map much more than a replicate of existing maps, or just a broken mess of unintuitive inconsistencies.
10 Aug 2017, 17:00 PM
#32
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

bring back pavlov's house 3v3

and keep montargis
10 Aug 2017, 21:14 PM
#33
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

Lorch is absolute garbage. It's a contest of who can out cheese the other side harder, and soviet field HQs make me wanna die :foreveralone:

Terrible vp placement and wasted space, and practically impossible to take the fuel away from the enemy without baseraping them. The middle turns into a meat grinder of emplacement spam, indirect, and arty strikes. The shotblockers everywhere and roads force people to blob the fuck out of everything, including tanks. It has literally every single possible bad design element all on one map.
10 Aug 2017, 21:16 PM
#34
avatar of RoswellBonewell

Posts: 38



I completely agree. Even after all these years, a 1vs1 map design alone will take me 20-30 hours before testing.

4vs4 maps are a massive time commitment, and certainly not worth the response we usually get for making them.

The reason no one makes 4x4 maps is because Relic is not asking for any. No one is going to work 100 hrs on a competitive map that will never get played.

People make a lot of great 4v4 maps all the time but they are geared towards comp stomps (since they will get played a lot). They also give you more freedom in the design since it does not have to be balanced.

Here is an example 4v4 balanced map that will never be played or put into rotation. I am sure that Tric, Rommel, Mono, etc all have a bunch of 4v4 maps that have very few plays. Why waste time playing a map that will never be in rotation.

So be sure to test and give "good" feedback in the 2v2 map contest :P
13 Aug 2017, 01:23 AM
#35
avatar of buttcheeksontoast

Posts: 59

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Aug 2017, 21:14 PMTobis
Lorch is absolute garbage. It's a contest of who can out cheese the other side harder, and soviet field HQs make me wanna die :foreveralone:

Terrible vp placement and wasted space, and practically impossible to take the fuel away from the enemy without baseraping them. The middle turns into a meat grinder of emplacement spam, indirect, and arty strikes. The shotblockers everywhere and roads force people to blob the fuck out of everything, including tanks. It has literally every single possible bad design element all on one map.


Yeesh, I can't imagine reading this as the mapmaker, that would hurt so bad.

But yeah it somehow is frustrating in every way a map can possibly be.

Although the safe fuels are a thing on other 4v4/3v3 maps, such as Angermunde.
22 Aug 2017, 18:01 PM
#36
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35

Update:

Kyle / Relic got all this stuff and they are working on it.

But it will take time.

So it's not forgotten.

9 Nov 2017, 05:08 AM
#37
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

Why so much hate for MortangisRegion?
Is it because the fuel actually requires some tactics to capture or is it because map is too large?
9 Nov 2017, 09:28 AM
#38
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35

Why so much hate for MortangisRegion?
Is it because the fuel actually requires some tactics to capture or is it because map is too large?


A) Large

B) 5 Vps

C) pathing

D) Sectors ( look at the middle and then right top)


In coh1 the map was let's say ok, but this map is not good for coh2.
9 Nov 2017, 09:34 AM
#39
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 431



Problem is: Why should we work on 4on4 maps?
The amount of feedback for maps is very limited and most of the feedback is toxic.
I cant see any way to make new high-quality 4on4 maps in the near future.

Ummm because it's the most played mode and the 4v4 maps are getting really fucking stale...? There are maps already on the workshop that are (in my opinion) good enough to put into the ladder, with or without some minor adjustments.
9 Nov 2017, 09:50 AM
#40
avatar of LordRommel
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 278 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2017, 09:34 AMKothre

Ummm because it's the most played mode and the 4v4 maps are getting really fucking stale...? There are maps already on the workshop that are (in my opinion) good enough to put into the ladder, with or without some minor adjustments.

Perhaps.
But i wont invest 2oo hours or more into a map that will be hated or wont get the amount of feedback i would need to balance the map for the pvp mode.
Perhaps u can find maps at the workshop but i'm afraid that the amount of maps you could use is limited. Furthermore you would need the map maker to do adjustments when needed because i think none of the active community map makers would touch a map from someone else without his permission to adjust the map for pvp.

So i think we wont see any new 3on3 or 4on4 maps in rotation. You would need Relic to get new content here.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

Offline

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

273 users are online: 1 member and 272 guests
Crecer13
4 posts in the last 24h
30 posts in the last week
84 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44637
Welcome our newest member, tridevambulance
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM