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Is Wehrmacht Competitive Right Now?

1 Aug 2017, 09:03 AM
#22
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 224 | Subs: 1

Good Day Kamaraden!

I have been struggling to deal many things some of which are: USF rifle blobs, Penal blobs, Late game T-34/85 and T-34/76 spam, and ridiculous spam of Katyushas and Calliope or Callipsos as I like to call them.



I think you are right in the sense that you need a lot of micro as Ostheer, maybe more than for other factions because of your reliance on team weapons. You constantly have to re-position your team weapons so they dont get flanked/artied to death.

Then you have to consider this: if an enemy loses a squad of - lets say - Rifle Men, he loses one squad. If you lose an MG42 to the enemy, you not only lose a squad, but the enemy effectively gains one. I think thats the largest weakness of Wehrmacht, the reliance on team weapons, which often will be used against you. And once a Soviet player gets a 6-man MG42 to back up his Penal hordes, it's pretty much gg. So, in team games you really have to work together with your mate to protect your team weapons.
1 Aug 2017, 09:05 AM
#23
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 214

Don't bring OKW to the talks, as the main topic is about Wehr being competitive.

My answer would be yes, but the faction is the hardest to play against good players. For the first 10-15min you need everything to go well and you can't have too many wipes because of allied easy blobbing + light vehicle combo dominance, that means good repositioning of MG's and good use of teller mines against light vehicles. Many maps PAK isn't really good because too many sight blocking that good players just kite around with their vehicles.

There is still things that need to be balanced for Wehrmacht, but I don't think that will happen :)
1 Aug 2017, 09:52 AM
#24
avatar of zsirbacsi

Posts: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2017, 09:05 AMThamor
Don't bring OKW to the talks, as the main topic is about Wehr being competitive.

My answer would be yes, but the faction is the hardest to play against good players. For the first 10-15min you need everything to go well and you can't have too many wipes because of allied easy blobbing + light vehicle combo dominance, that means good repositioning of MG's and good use of teller mines against light vehicles. Many maps PAK isn't really good because too many sight blocking that good players just kite around with their vehicles.

There is still things that need to be balanced for Wehrmacht, but I don't think that will happen :)


I guess I need to start putting down some tellers. Although the thing is I am always starved for munition in the early game. I need to get LMGs on my grens or Panzerschrecks on the pzgrens, then I need 60 munition upgrade for a healing bunker in base and usually lob quite a few rifle grenades.
1 Aug 2017, 10:01 AM
#25
avatar of zsirbacsi

Posts: 17



I think you are right in the sense that you need a lot of micro as Ostheer, maybe more than for other factions because of your reliance on team weapons. You constantly have to re-position your team weapons so they dont get flanked/artied to death.

Then you have to consider this: if an enemy loses a squad of - lets say - Rifle Men, he loses one squad. If you lose an MG42 to the enemy, you not only lose a squad, but the enemy effectively gains one. I think thats the largest weakness of Wehrmacht, the reliance on team weapons, which often will be used against you. And once a Soviet player gets a 6-man MG42 to back up his Penal hordes, it's pretty much gg. So, in team games you really have to work together with your mate to protect your team weapons.


Yeah I feel like Wehrmacht relies on PAKs since they dont have a non-doctrinal good tank destroyer. I mean the stug is there but it is terrible. Every other faction has good non-doctrinal tank destroyers. Then in the late game I find very difficult to micro these support weapons due to the abundance of rocket arty at that stage of the game.
1 Aug 2017, 15:03 PM
#26
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1077

Ostheer in 2vs2 is competitive yet still the hardest to play.

This is because of the faction design:

- Still 4 men squads are very vulnerable and hard to keep alife. Especiall Sniper spam can easily defeat Ostheer.

- The reliance on support weapons (MG42, Pak40, Mortar) means that artillery hard counters your army setup.

- The specialization of units means that if you lose a unit (which again is quite easy as Ostheer), the others won't be able to reach their full potential.

- Useless Tier 4 makes it hard to compete lategame. The Ostheer Panther is weaker than the OKW Panther (less accuracy on the MGs, lower rate of fire, less accuracy on the move) despite coming later in the game. Simply put: No justification for that.

Thus Ostheer becomes incredibly frustrating to play. It`s still not impossible due to the StuG (going to be nerfed) and Tiger. Sometimes an Elefant can work. The Elefant nerf will kick that option out of the game for good though.
1 Aug 2017, 15:19 PM
#27
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



Thanks for the tips I have been blindly trying Osttruppen against all factions but now I will try out Osttruppen against the Brits specifically


I once did so too! Do not forget to start swapping those osttruppen for Panzergrenadiers once Allied infantry reaches vet 2! Otherwise your field presence will start dropping like your osttruppen will drop models.
1 Aug 2017, 16:25 PM
#28
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 588

Most effective 2v2 ost strat currently. Brumbar rush with double paks protecting it. Most effective against usf and soviets because it counters its own counters AT guns and its front armor is so good it can somewhat ignore jacksons and su85s (this is why you follow it around with double paks) Least effective against brits because the 6er is a much better at gun but still vulnerable to brumbar, but because the firefly is really effective at warding the brumbar off.
1 Aug 2017, 16:28 PM
#29
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 890

ostheer is good aslong you make no mistakes and you never have bad RNG rolls against you... or "good" i should say equal to others. But a single explosive against bunched up 4 man squads is goodbye to 340 manpower and 120 munition pgrensquad which can easily turn the game.
1 Aug 2017, 16:47 PM
#30
avatar of Domine

Posts: 431

Ostheer is bad because it got overrun by the powercreep.

Compare their units. Pak 40 is not as good as it once was, P4 is worse than it's counterparts, still costs 125 fuel, ridiculous teching, underperforming infantry, Tiger being bad, and to top it all off, it's getting nerfed even further soon.
1 Aug 2017, 16:56 PM
#31
avatar of RifleMan

Posts: 35

Judging by the tournament, ostheer seems to be one of the stronger factions.
Their mortar,mg is good. LMG grens will shred any infrantry in sight by just brainless A-moving and pak/stug wall with TWP will easily deal with any armour. If against USF I would go for a g43 doctrine and they can handle riflemen pretty well at all ranges pretty much.
1 Aug 2017, 18:11 PM
#32
avatar of karolllus

Posts: 169

Judging by the tournament, ostheer seems to be one of the stronger factions.
Their mortar,mg is good. LMG grens will shred any infrantry in sight by just brainless A-moving and pak/stug wall with TWP will easily deal with any armour. If against USF I would go for a g43 doctrine and they can handle riflemen pretty well at all ranges pretty much.


I agree that ost is one of the stronger factions if played well. Basically the problem with ost is that you need to have a brain to play that faction thats why some players tend to play more okw where brain is not required. Ost has basically counter to anything and can play every map if you have the right commander. You get nice late game combo with heavy tank + airstrike in quite few commanders, you have strong specialized commanders like prostruppen. You can play close range skirmishes with g43 upg or pgrens, you can play long maps with elephant and spotting scopes, you can snipe artillery with stuka bombing + recon, you have best elite infantry in the game (storm troopers) that can shred anyone to pieces with stgs and double the armor of any other infantry. You have the most op airstrike in the game called 'close the pocket'. On top of that you have the best mg in the game, best mortar, best sniper, best at infantry, best at gun, solid vanilla armor. Basically if you have a little bit of brain and you're not a complete chimpo (like most okw players) you will have a lot of fun playing ost and using their incredible versatility. If on the other hand you just want an easy win, with no micro, just to blob and push and get a super tank in late game then play okw ^^. I mean why make it harder for yourself right?
2 Aug 2017, 07:39 AM
#33
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2690



Yeah I feel like Wehrmacht relies on PAKs since they dont have a non-doctrinal good tank destroyer. I mean the stug is there but it is terrible. Every other faction has good non-doctrinal tank destroyers. Then in the late game I find very difficult to micro these support weapons due to the abundance of rocket arty at that stage of the game.

Wot. Stug is one of the best units ostheer has right now lol. I literally saw this thread and thought "stug spam, mg42s, and brummbar". The only problem with it is that it can't fight other dedicated TDs like Jackson, su85, or firefly alone/until vet2, but it's dirt cheap anyway.
2 Aug 2017, 08:28 AM
#34
avatar of LemonJuice

Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7

ostheer has several things that okw lack and offers a pretty different playstyle that i prefer actually. overall ostheer has every tool available to them, with probably the exception of a durable infantry core. grenadiers are quite strong with vet and weapon upgrades, but as others have said suffer in the late game from explosive wipes. every weapon team ostheer has is actually quite good, the mg42 has high suppression rates in addition to good dps, the mortar has an extremely high rate of fire making it really good against brits, and the pak has good penetration and TWP. the flame halftrack offers good shock value if you rush it, and the medium tank roster is pretty solid as well.
the main problem with ostheer is how much micro is required compared to some of the other factions. you need to be constantly microing all your support teams in addition to making sure your grens arent in a position to just randomly die to an explosion. but if you can manage all that ostheer has a tool for every problem in every stage of the game
2 Aug 2017, 09:00 AM
#35
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1737


What makes Volks good?
3) FRP
4) Flame grenade
5) Self healing (on main line inf WTF?)
6) Self spot to avoid machine guns


These point also all apply to Brit Sections (flame grenade is being replaced with gammon grenade).
FRP is there as Brits, Self Healing is unlockable (also healing other units as well), Artillery will also grant better vision if I recall correctly.

Not gonna say Volks are not strong, but they are simply not that unique.
2 Aug 2017, 10:46 AM
#36
avatar of some one

Posts: 912



These point also all apply to Brit Sections (flame grenade is being replaced with gammon grenade).

Here I type few Luvnest words when he play OKW .-" Hm.. Enemy uses heavy cover. What I am gonna do about it?" and he throw an incidiary nade"

FRP is there as Brits

Here I say Jagdtiger and Jackson are Tank Destroyers. But something tells me that there is a difference betwin them and because of that one dies a much faster another. With sinergy of fast repair.


Self Healing is unlockable (also healing other units as well)

You should buy it. Wanna buy it for Volks? I don't mind.
Indirectly it not require attetnion to micro it at all.

Artillery will also grant better vision if I recall correctly.


You should buy it. Wanna buy it for Volks? I don't mind. Also you lose healing in that case.

Not gonna say Volks are not strong, but they are simply not that unique.

they are simply requaire no micro attention or aditional investment. For team games Just run forth and back throw incediary.
Infantry section has 4 man. Also if some one spam them they gonna bleed hard in mid and late game.
2 Aug 2017, 12:29 PM
#37
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1067

Similar to what everyone has already said,
Lose one unit and it can be GG especially if it's your mg42 while they are pushing.

I personally live by the half-track and get it 8/10 games I play and put scopes in itbas well. Keeps all your support weapons on the fight and can make for very passive aggressive ostheer play as you slowly move up the map with every engagement you win.

Biggest problems ostheer faces:
-One wrong move and your support weapons can all turn against you.
-this problem is largely fixed by getting a p4 to defend vs flanks are more freely push up. However, once allied TDs hit the field your offenses with your tanks are halted.
- problem two is fixed by supporting your p4 with aggressive pak play but is dependent on the map and leads to the third problem. Rocket artillery and indirect fire spam which destroys your support weapons and the back bone of your army.
2 Aug 2017, 13:22 PM
#38
avatar of zsirbacsi

Posts: 17

Similar to what everyone has already said,
Lose one unit and it can be GG especially if it's your mg42 while they are pushing.

I personally live by the half-track and get it 8/10 games I play and put scopes in itbas well. Keeps all your support weapons on the fight and can make for very passive aggressive ostheer play as you slowly move up the map with every engagement you win.

Biggest problems ostheer faces:
-One wrong move and your support weapons can all turn against you.
-this problem is largely fixed by getting a p4 to defend vs flanks are more freely push up. However, once allied TDs hit the field your offenses with your tanks are halted.
- problem two is fixed by supporting your p4 with aggressive pak play but is dependent on the map and leads to the third problem. Rocket artillery and indirect fire spam which destroys your support weapons and the back bone of your army.


I always opted for the 222 instead of the half-track because of the amount of snipers, clown cars or M3A1s and universal carriers I see and I found the 222 rather effective against them. But I guess I could give it a go sometime soon.
2 Aug 2017, 13:27 PM
#39
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 224 | Subs: 1



Yeah I feel like Wehrmacht relies on PAKs since they dont have a non-doctrinal good tank destroyer. I mean the stug is there but it is terrible. Every other faction has good non-doctrinal tank destroyers. Then in the late game I find very difficult to micro these support weapons due to the abundance of rocket arty at that stage of the game.


Personally, I think that the Stug is amazing and one of the view things that keep Wehr alive (with Mg42, Paks, the Sniper and maybe the Brummbär). Definetly more useful than the stupid Panther...
2 Aug 2017, 13:34 PM
#40
avatar of karolllus

Posts: 169

Similar to what everyone has already said,
Lose one unit and it can be GG especially if it's your mg42 while they are pushing.

I personally live by the half-track and get it 8/10 games I play and put scopes in itbas well. Keeps all your support weapons on the fight and can make for very passive aggressive ostheer play as you slowly move up the map with every engagement you win.

Biggest problems ostheer faces:
-One wrong move and your support weapons can all turn against you.
-this problem is largely fixed by getting a p4 to defend vs flanks are more freely push up. However, once allied TDs hit the field your offenses with your tanks are halted.
- problem two is fixed by supporting your p4 with aggressive pak play but is dependent on the map and leads to the third problem. Rocket artillery and indirect fire spam which destroys your support weapons and the back bone of your army.


What you have described here is a natural progression of the game stages. Compare that to playing soviets and before you get a tank all your support weapons get wiped by okw stuka xD imagine how salty would you be if that were the case
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