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Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

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8 Jul 2017, 20:12 PM
#261
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 393



Good idea, I like that! Never thought of that before.

Sorry but 3 seconds is really taking the piss... Even with a very short cooldown, you'll be forced to only be able to realistically save no more than one emplacement from say... a Stuka Dive Bomber or a Sturmtiger. As suggested by myself and others, 10-15 seconds is more reasonable. That's 50% - 67% shorter than the live version!

Hey, just had a thought! Could we perhaps make the Officer Commando Section come equipped with Lee Enfield Rifles? It would compliment them far better to lead from a little further back. Right now, they just feel like a weaker Commando Section with some leadership skills. Sten Guns don't suit them at all.
8 Jul 2017, 22:00 PM
#262
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Really short brace duration won't really work for anything but the Bofors, imo. That's because every time you hit brace, the mortars/17 pounder will have to re-setup, and potentially pivot.

Unless you have 2-3 other Mortar Pits attacking at the same time, those 3 seconds you wasted from the enemy won't count for anything. We want to make Mortar Pits work for 1 mortar; not sim city.

At the same time, it's fine if the Bofors is vulnerable to indirect fire; that's basically the intended counter.
8 Jul 2017, 22:17 PM
#263
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

you'll be forced to only be able to realistically save no more than one emplacement from say... a Stuka Dive Bomber or a Sturmtiger..


To me, that's the only applicable and reasonable excuse for Brace.

In that light, it's something that any emplacement, regardless of faction, could/should have at its disposal because they cannot move.
9 Jul 2017, 00:08 AM
#264
avatar of RifleMan

Posts: 52

you just removed 50% of brit faction, the emplacements is a waste to build now, good job, added more thing to the long list of useless things in coh2.
9 Jul 2017, 00:10 AM
#265
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 967

I really hope that Relic will acknowledge the tremendous job being done by the mod team.

Impressive !
9 Jul 2017, 00:58 AM
#266
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

Someone please create a ''keep or remove the mod team from working on future balance changes survey.''

If the majority of these changes go through, it will be a disaster.
Modder are still useful for bug fixes.
9 Jul 2017, 03:10 AM
#267
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

you just removed 50% of brit faction, the emplacements is a waste to build now, good job, added more thing to the long list of useless things in coh2.

You realize the mortar only costs 200 manpower now, right?
9 Jul 2017, 03:20 AM
#268
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13


FRP

Sure, if you want a 33% constant penalty with a FRP and the structure itself is very easy to level.


Mortar Pit


Kill it with small-arms. It melts to bullets. Furthermore, Brits have no proper indirect-fire outside of the pit non-doctrinally.

Bofors


Destroy it with artillery. Paks also still hit it 60% of the time at maximum range. It also no longer melts infantry or LVs as fast as it previously did.

T3 building


Try and hold the infantry war without upgrades and British tanks are no longer as potent as they were.

Tommies


The ccover bonus is not a bonus if you did research into it. It actually gimps tommies when out of cover. Tommies also will die faster, no longer being nearly as durable as Obers, which was their main issue in infantry fights early game when cover is added.

Universal carrier


Goes along side the pop and XP changes for LVs that taper off, has less armour to deflect small-arms, and you negate changes to things like earlier schrecks for OKW and Ostheer has fausts and their HMGs.
9 Jul 2017, 03:29 AM
#269
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

One thing about the 17pdr- as a heavy at solution, shouldn't it be harder to kill with tanks? Because the like, two times I built it ever, it would always just get demolished by tanks or heavily damaged by a single tank. Now the coaxial and pintle guns will kill it even faster too XD
9 Jul 2017, 06:40 AM
#270
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 393

Mortar Pit


Kill it with small-arms. It melts to bullets.

With all due respect. Why should I use this emplacement for protection for section to make a defensive stand when this is the case? Target size is smaller sure but emplacements surely need to at LEAST have Shock Troop level armour, being "Reinforced" with Sandbags. Their current durability is just too jarring and unrealistic.
9 Jul 2017, 08:28 AM
#271
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

commandos buffed....and obers and falls nerfed wow
sturmtiger got hard nerfed (nobody asked and for whatever reason because the modders may ahve got pissed in team games guess what should have scouted ahead )but avre remains the same
tommies receive some raw buffs while okw gets useless abilites
concentrated barrage still gives 1 extra round compared to railway arty...
edit : why are rifles allowed to carry double bars again please dont bring the false paper tank argument
9 Jul 2017, 08:36 AM
#272
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

One thing about the 17pdr- as a heavy at solution, shouldn't it be harder to kill with tanks? Because the like, two times I built it ever, it would always just get demolished by tanks or heavily damaged by a single tank. Now the coaxial and pintle guns will kill it even faster too XD


You know, you have an army to support it? If your opponent could get close to it and destroy it with tanks, you are doing something wrong.
9 Jul 2017, 10:32 AM
#273
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17


With all due respect. Why should I use this emplacement for protection for section to make a defensive stand when this is the case? Target size is smaller sure but emplacements surely need to at LEAST have Shock Troop level armour, being "Reinforced" with Sandbags. Their current durability is just too jarring and unrealistic.


Mortar Pits have a lot more HP than shocktroops, though. They also need to be vulnerable to something. If it's not indirect fire, and it's not AT guns sniping them, they have to be vulnerable to infantry.

One thing about the 17pdr- as a heavy at solution, shouldn't it be harder to kill with tanks? Because the like, two times I built it ever, it would always just get demolished by tanks or heavily damaged by a single tank. Now the coaxial and pintle guns will kill it even faster too XD


The main reason why the 17 pounder gets wrecked so hard in the live version is because it has 40 target size. For comparison, the King Tiger has 26 target size. Basically, you can yolocharge around the emplacement all day long and your shots will never miss.

To kill the 17 pounder with the coaxial guns, you need to get close. To get close, a) you receive damage, b) the 17 pounder has already done its job, since you can now dispatch tanks with your supporting troops.
9 Jul 2017, 11:18 AM
#274
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

commandos buffed....and obers and falls nerfed wow
sturmtiger got hard nerfed (nobody asked and for whatever reason because the modders may ahve got pissed in team games guess what should have scouted ahead )but avre remains the same
tommies receive some raw buffs while okw gets useless abilites
concentrated barrage still gives 1 extra round compared to railway arty...
edit : why are rifles allowed to carry double bars again please dont bring the false paper tank argument


One thing to keep in mind is that an lmg42 does more damage than 2 bars at max range. Even if it was the same at that range it would still be superior due to the fact that it is a single source of damage, which means it bursts down one entity after the other. 2 bars more often than not spread their damage across 2 entities of another squad thereby reducing the other squad's dps output at less than half the rate as the lmg42 does.

Of course bars are more potent at close to medium range though. If you're trying to say that they are for their investment (120 mu, 15 fuel, 150 mp) still too effective at close to medium range, then your argument should not concern the fact that there are two. The bar as a single upgrade is arguably too expensive to how it performs. The only distance at which it will outperform (as a single upgrade, for the same cost as an lmg42, ignoring the unlock costs) is between 0-10. What makes the bar work for its premium cost is the fact it can be double equipped later in the game, when rifles should no longer face just grens.

Now if the double upgrade ought to be abolished then the performance of the bar needs to be elevated to perform for its cost which in turn will again prompt issues with units like REs and rangers.

As an upgrade I find the bar to be on of the better upgrades, not performance wise but gameplay wise, version of a lmg like weapon as its damage does not practically peak at max range, which turns so many other upgrades into a-move upgrades. There could be something to be said that it might be too good at close or long range, but you need to be more accurate in what you mean.
9 Jul 2017, 13:20 PM
#275
avatar of MarioSilver

Posts: 62


FRP
Sure, if you want a 33% constant penalty with a FRP and the structure itself is very easy to level.

It doesn't have to be constantly active. You fall back once and save your five-man bren/PIAT blob and that is it.

Mortar Pit
Kill it with small-arms. It melts to bullets. Furthermore, Brits have no proper indirect-fire outside of the pit non-doctrinally.
And why shouldn't it melt to indirect/AT with that ridiculous size? Thye pit suffices, and they got their 25P too. What else would you want?


Bofors
Destroy it with artillery. Paks also still hit it 60% of the time at maximum range. It also no longer melts infantry or LVs as fast as it previously did.
It shouldn't be able to pin arty then. And not to mention it is protected by a 200MP arty now.



T3 building
Try and hold the infantry war without upgrades and British tanks are no longer as potent as they were.

That still doesn't justify brits having a 50-75 fuel cheaper T3.


Tommies
The ccover bonus is not a bonus if you did research into it. It actually gimps tommies when out of cover. Tommies also will die faster, no longer being nearly as durable as Obers, which was their main issue in infantry fights early game when cover is added.

AFAIK, they receive a ROF/Reload bonus in cover and it remains unchanged? Why not nerf their DPS, which is the main cause of their broken state?


Universal carrier
Goes along side the pop and XP changes for LVs that taper off, has less armour to deflect small-arms, and you negate changes to things like earlier schrecks for OKW and Ostheer has fausts and their HMGs.
The OKW Faust gets the unit using it wiped ,due to the funny short range and activation times. HMG? Lol, it melts them.


Still there is not a single logical reason for the super-durable and highly versatile vehicle to not cost any fuel.

We are already tired of facing this troll clown car as the first unit at the start of every match and these crazy unwarranted overbuffs make zero sense.
9 Jul 2017, 14:47 PM
#276
avatar of IA3 - HH

Posts: 289

I think the mod almost is complete, now what is next step ?
9 Jul 2017, 15:19 PM
#277
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440

I think the mod almost is complete, now what is next step ?


There is no next step except Relic decide to look after their game and somehow just somehow they call for community again
9 Jul 2017, 16:55 PM
#278
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 393



Mortar Pits have a lot more HP than shocktroops, though. They also need to be vulnerable to something. If it's not indirect fire, and it's not AT guns sniping them, they have to be vulnerable to infantry.

I do agree that it does need a certain weakness and a small arms weakness makes sense but it's a bit too vulnerable under the current stats. I did a test of this and it's quite shocking. I placed two UNUPGRADED Vet 0 Ostheer Pioneers (A realistic assault group size for most players) next to the upgraded British Mortar Pit. It went down in three bursts. Then tried with Sturmpioneers to see it go down in two.

Next with two Vet 0 Panzergrenadiers and then finally two Vet 0 Assault Grenadiers afterwards. It went down in a mere 1.5 bursts from each. That's horrifyingly fast. It makes the USF Fighting Position look like a hardened bunker.

There are light vehicles with more armour and they can still be considered counterable with Small Arms like the Soviet M3. YES, they have less Health but you can still do noticeable damage without it vaporizing.

Combine the fact they have seemingly high health and the now slow repair rate of Sappers and they are just a liability to try and keep alive. I am willing to accept Small Arms as a counter for Mortar Pits but certainly not to this extent.

They don't need the armour of the live version (Which is 5 Armour) but they need to have at least some resistance to show their Sandbags aren't just filled with air. Hell, I'd go no higher than 3 Armour (4 Armour with the Emplacement Regiment).

I'm sure you guys would have agreed if you were able to do more testing before this version was released early. Good thing is, we can keep tweaking it until it feels right since this isn't an official Relic release. :)
9 Jul 2017, 16:56 PM
#279
avatar of Senseo1990

Posts: 317

Sorry, but there are way too many changes for it to be considered "good". Lots of which look absolutely unnecessary and many of which are too convoluted. To me it looks like youre adding changes just for the sake of changing things.
9 Jul 2017, 19:37 PM
#280
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17


I do agree that it does need a certain weakness and a small arms weakness makes sense but it's a bit too vulnerable under the current stats. I did a test of this and it's quite shocking. I placed two UNUPGRADED Vet 0 Ostheer Pioneers (A realistic assault group size for most players) next to the upgraded British Mortar Pit. It went down in three bursts. Then tried with Sturmpioneers to see it go down in two.

Next with two Vet 0 Panzergrenadiers and then finally two Vet 0 Assault Grenadiers afterwards. It went down in a mere 1.5 bursts from each. That's horrifyingly fast. It makes the USF Fighting Position look like a hardened bunker.

There are light vehicles with more armour and they can still be considered counterable with Small Arms like the Soviet M3. YES, they have less Health but you can still do noticeable damage without it vaporizing.

Combine the fact they have seemingly high health and the now slow repair rate of Sappers and they are just a liability to try and keep alive. I am willing to accept Small Arms as a counter for Mortar Pits but certainly not to this extent.

They don't need the armour of the live version (Which is 5 Armour) but they need to have at least some resistance to show their Sandbags aren't just filled with air. Hell, I'd go no higher than 3 Armour (4 Armour with the Emplacement Regiment).

I'm sure you guys would have agreed if you were able to do more testing before this version was released early. Good thing is, we can keep tweaking it until it feels right since this isn't an official Relic release. :)


If you've managed to pull off a flank with 2 squads at point blank vs the Mortar Pit, how fast should the mortar pit die?

Also, btw, was this a single-mortar pit, or a double-mortar pit? Double-mortar pits receive an HP buff.
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