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Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

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20 Aug 2017, 19:22 PM
#461
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

@Mr Smith you clearly have absolutely no clue on how to balance the game. The FBP is a disaster as it has made things worse not better.

I really hope for the sake of the game that the majority of these changes are utterly scrapped.

Thanks for useful feedback.
Your opinion is very important for us.
20 Aug 2017, 22:18 PM
#462
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046

I don't think nerfing the BAR will make elites more atractive, MP cost and bleed is usually the concern with them, not munition investment or moving DPS.
Though that will make the BAR more of a "chill in cover" weapon which is interesting.

The problem with elites is that there's no reason to make them when they come, as you already have at the very least 4 fighting infantry squads in anything like a standard build. You basically are forced to make at least 3 riflemen and then get a free officer squad so there's not much reason to have more ai infantry as opposed to say, hmgs or pack howies.

Especially for airborne, an easy fix (IMO) would be to make paths 0cp and paras 2, but lock weapon upgrades behind 3. Or you could do some weird stuff like make riflemen able to upgrade into paras or rangers or something like that.
Vaz
21 Aug 2017, 16:06 PM
#463
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1145

Jackson misses all the time. Sometimes the shots just disappear into nothing.
21 Aug 2017, 23:03 PM
#464
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

you realize by reducing the OKW stuka vs buildings damage, you are taking away the single and only counter OKW has against Soviet field HQ abuse?

I have noticed many other critical flaws that people don't seem to be noticing.
21 Aug 2017, 23:27 PM
#465
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2017, 16:06 PMVaz
Jackson misses all the time. Sometimes the shots just disappear into nothing.

Shoutout to m10 from vCoh
you realize by reducing the OKW stuka vs buildings damage, you are taking away the single and only counter OKW has against Soviet field HQ abuse?

I have noticed many other critical flaws that people don't seem to be noticing.

Dunno if that counts as a "critical flaw". You can still just shove his infantry off btw, you can even use a stuka for that purpose, and I think if anything the flaw resides more with the implementation of the whole field hq in the first place
21 Aug 2017, 23:39 PM
#466
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232


Shoutout to m10 from vCoh

Dunno if that counts as a "critical flaw". You can still just shove his infantry off btw, you can even use a stuka for that purpose, and I think if anything the flaw resides more with the implementation of the whole field hq in the first place


One can not simply "shove his infantry off" a field hq if this change goes through then you can shoot with your stuka all night and day and they will still reinforce and still get bonuses.

You are correct it is a problem with field hq itself it is an utterly broken design which has no mention in the patch. The problem is you can not just jump and change stuka without changing the HQ itself.

That is just like removing the break pedal in a car because it ouf of fuel . It makes things worse not better.

21 Aug 2017, 23:44 PM
#467
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046



One can not simply "shove his infantry off" a field hq if this change goes through then you can shoot with your stuka all night and day and they will still reinforce and still get bonuses.

You are correct it is a problem with field hq itself it is an utterly broken design which has no mention in the patch. The problem is you can not just jump and change stuka without changing the HQ itself.

That is just like removing the break pedal in a car because it ouf of fuel . It makes things worse not better.


Combined arms will push soviet infantry (even penals) off of the field hq, and they don't have frps, so they aren't coming back as quickly as okw infantry will. I think they also nerfed some of the defensive bonuses the field hq has in live so it's not as cheesy. That being said, it's still just a stupid mechanic.
22 Aug 2017, 01:56 AM
#468
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I miss FHQs just being a forward barracks you could decap.

/vCoH

The Soviet FHQs are only worth it to heal your USF and UKF allies and let THEM reinforce on the field. :P
22 Aug 2017, 09:05 AM
#469
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

Updated OP:
- Copied EFA changes to OP to have everything in one place
- Merged the sum-total of version changes to the original post (original post now contains the current state of the mod)
- Added a version-by-version changelog index to help people locate which changes were introduced in which version

Please use this thread from now on to report issues with the Revamp mod. The Eastern Front Revamp mod is now obsolete.
22 Aug 2017, 09:10 AM
#470
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

you realize by reducing the OKW stuka vs buildings damage, you are taking away the single and only counter OKW has against Soviet field HQ abuse?

I have noticed many other critical flaws that people don't seem to be noticing.


Keep in mind that WFA changes come along with EFA changes:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/61465/eastern-front-armies-revamp

So, let me help you here, by bringing up what you are looking for:

Forward headquarters
We are seeking ways to make the ability more attractive by making the Forward HQ cheaper to deploy, while reducing the amount of frustration it can pile on the enemy if “abused” on heavily urban maps. Furthermore, we have allowed an option for Soviets to deploy a Forward Post, allowing the doctrine’s key ability to be used even when all buildings have been levelled.

- Reduce price from 300/60 to 250/30
- Aura removed
- Can only be activated in connected territory
- Forward HQ can now now be constructed by Soviet Engineers


The reason why walking stuka (or any unit) should not be allowed to demolish buildings from afar in one go are the garrison changes. So, let me also look that up for you here:

Garrisons
- Grenade damage against buildings significantly lowered
- Load time for buildings increased to 1 (per model)
- Max load time increased to 3.25 (entire squad)
- Unload time for buildings increased to 0.5 (per model)

(This may not affect all garrisons, though, due to modding tools limitations)


Given the delay in hoping-in/out of garrisons, and the cost discount on the walking stuka, it would be completely unfair for the unit to wipe units from afar.

Finally, note that the walking stuka receives its incendiary barrage at Vet0, which you can use to burn down garrisons.

Which are the other critical flaws that you're referring to?

22 Aug 2017, 17:00 PM
#471
avatar of IA3 - HH

Posts: 289

why relic dont use new changes in Revamp mod? most of them are good.
22 Aug 2017, 23:34 PM
#472
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232



Keep in mind that WFA changes come along with EFA changes:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/61465/eastern-front-armies-revamp

So, let me help you here, by bringing up what you are looking for:


The reason why walking stuka (or any unit) should not be allowed to demolish buildings from afar in one go are the garrison changes. So, let me also look that up for you here:


Given the delay in hoping-in/out of garrisons, and the cost discount on the walking stuka, it would be completely unfair for the unit to wipe units from afar.

Finally, note that the walking stuka receives its incendiary barrage at Vet0, which you can use to burn down garrisons.

Which are the other critical flaws that you're referring to?



The problem is mr smith is that there are no changes in the patch for field hq only for the mod and having to scoop out 40 munitions with no guarantee of even destroying the building especially the larger ones is a massive drain on resources just to attempt to counter a broken mechanic.This is like taking the roof of a house in april and saying the rain is not in scope.

Sure I will share another, In the patch notes it says the mortar pit has been reduced to a target size of 1 despite its massive size and making it more vulnerable to small arms.

The flaw is 90% of the time a bofors is protecting a mortar pit and will decimate any infantry or light vehicle in seconds regardless if they try to retreat or not. Thus making the most liable counter for emplacements AT guns useless. This makes countering emplacements even harder as you need 2 separate strategy's to kill emplacements.

The Bofors is amazing against infantry, light vehicles , does a decent job at medium tanks , and even knocks hp off heavy tanks to add more wood to the fire it is also a bracing artillery piece. Utterly astonishing for 280 manpower and 30 fuel.

I think it would be far better to have things as they are in regards to emplacements (apart from mortar range and reducing the bofors insane squad wiping potential) but have brace drain manpower when used so it can't be spammed . This will be a far simpler and more effective way of balancing emplacements especially considering the ultra cheap cost it has.
22 Aug 2017, 23:51 PM
#473
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18



The problem is mr smith is that there are no changes in the patch for field hq only for the mod and having to scoop out 40 munitions with no guarantee of even destroying the building especially the larger ones is a massive drain on resources just to attempt to counter a broken mechanic.This is like taking the roof of a house in april and saying the rain is not in scope.

Sure I will share another, In the patch notes it says the mortar pit has been reduced to a target size of 1 despite its massive size and making it more vulnerable to small arms.

The flaw is 90% of the time a bofors is protecting a mortar pit and will decimate any infantry or light vehicle in seconds regardless if they try to retreat or not. Thus making the most liable counter for emplacements AT guns useless. This makes countering emplacements even harder as you need 2 separate strategy's to kill emplacements.

The Bofors is amazing against infantry, light vehicles , does a decent job at medium tanks , and even knocks hp off heavy tanks to add more wood to the fire it is also a bracing artillery piece. Utterly astonishing for 280 manpower and 30 fuel.

I think it would be far better to have things as they are in regards to emplacements (apart from mortar range and reducing the bofors insane squad wiping potential) but have brace drain manpower when used so it can't be spammed . This will be a far simpler and more effective way of balancing emplacements especially considering the ultra cheap cost it has.



Right. Let me link the changes for the Bofors too, because you seem to be too lazy to read them for yourself:



Bofors
The changes to the Bofors make it so that the Bofors gives up 50% of its killing power in return for some suppression. Overall, the Bofors becomes:
More resilient to small arms fire
Vulnerable to indirect fire and ballistic AT fire

- Rate of fire decreased from 4 to 2
- Increased damage vs garrisoned squads
- Fixes a bug where the Bofors would continue firing its barrage while there were no occupants inside
- Hitpoints from 1000 to 800
- Armor from 5 to 25 (when fully built)
- Armour from 5 to 1, while not completed
- Target size from 40 to 15
- Population cap from 10 to 6
- Veterancy requirements reduced from 2000/4000/8000 to 450/900/1800


Note that Bofors is also affected by brace changes:


Brace
Our changes to Brace make it so the ability can no longer be used to deny flanks and absorb mass amounts of damage. Instead, it is an ability that can be used to prolong the emplacement’s lifespan against off-maps and indirect fire.

- Duration reduced from 30 to 10
- No longer increases emplacement armor
- Now also reduces incoming damage to garrisoned squad by 75%


23 Aug 2017, 00:03 AM
#474
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

I am referring to the potential live game not the mod . I don't play mods and only test balance patches.

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244194/fall-balance-preview-changelog#latest

There is nothing about Bofors on here in what you were referring to. It actually got increased potency because its now even better vs garrisons. Thus we have an even larger critical flaw. Changing a few things and leaving the rest of the changes just creates more imbalance.
23 Aug 2017, 00:03 AM
#475
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

I am referring the potential live game not the mod . I don't play mods and only test balance patches.

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244194/fall-balance-preview-changelog#latest

There is nothing about Bofors on here thus we have a critical flaw. Changing some things and leaving others just creates more imbalance.


You should ask Relic about why they chose to cut changes out of the scope; not us.

Note that if we leave hitbox size for motar pits untouched, as you request, Brits will be completely hepless to the new ISG. I bet you haven't tried the ISG.
23 Aug 2017, 00:35 AM
#476
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046

IMO it's still ridiculous that the m20 has to upgrade skirts for 70 muni and that paths are 2 pop per model.
23 Aug 2017, 19:30 PM
#477
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

The fall balance patch has been what looks like terminated due to unforseen circumstances.

Can anyone enlighten me on what these unforseen circumstances are?
24 Aug 2017, 08:46 AM
#478
avatar of TM.Dutchy
Honorary Member Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 1227 | Subs: 1

The fall balance patch has been what looks like terminated due to unforseen circumstances.

Can anyone enlighten me on what these unforseen circumstances are?


This thread is about discussing the contents of the patch, not the goings on "behind the scenes" ;)
Please keep that in mind when posting here.
Thank you.
24 Aug 2017, 23:56 PM
#479
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232



You should ask Relic about why they chose to cut changes out of the scope; not us.

Note that if we leave hitbox size for motar pits untouched, as you request, Brits will be completely hepless to the new ISG. I bet you haven't tried the ISG.


Then leave the ISG as it is . There is nothing wrong with it anyway. Simplicity is key the main issue should be adressing the broken mechanics and overperforming units.
24 Aug 2017, 23:57 PM
#480
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232



Then leave the ISG as it is . There is nothing wrong with it anyway. Simplicity is key the main issue should be adressing the broken mechanics and overperforming units.


Do not get me wrong I appreciate the work you have put in and am not outright targetting you. I do however disagree with a lot of these changes.
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