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DevM vs. VonIvan reffing and player decision re: bugsplat

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12 Jun 2017, 12:57 PM
#62
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jun 2017, 12:40 PMTüMe
how you solve bugsplat ? tell me the trick, other than restart game

id like to solve this bugsplat issue too but im not nerd enough to find the solution :new:


There is no silver bullet. However, this is your best bet:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/59071/psa-my-games-dir-filling-up-with-files-may-cause-low-fps/page/1#post_id590348

Also, clean up your replay folder/make sure it's empty. If you want to keep your replays, just move them to a different folder.

This won't make the bugsplat problem go away, of course. However, it might let you play longer before that happens.

12 Jun 2017, 13:25 PM
#63
avatar of Jan Ziska

Posts: 70

All's well that ends well, in regards to DevM deciding to basically rematch. Honestly I believe that he should have either been forced to rematch or have it chalked up as a loss and move on as normal. this whole 'gentlemen's agreement' leaves quite a large grey area where anything that is suggested is open to accusations of bias. In the end Von Ivan did say 'I agree' so I don't really know why people are trying to crucify A_E. If von felt it wasn't fair, I'm sure he would have said something, because he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who just rolls over when Directlytold to shut up.
12 Jun 2017, 13:27 PM
#64
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2806 | Subs: 6

DevM should be DQ for intentional bugsplatting during the game, this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated in our community :romeoMug:

about the bugsplatterino - i can't remember when i last had a bugsplat during the game, just like others i think, the bugsplat issue was solved more less, and i believe that non other player playing in GCS major and it's qualis had a bugplat, if i'm incorect then please, let that guy speak here who bugsplatted during GCS
12 Jun 2017, 13:29 PM
#65
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2529 | Subs: 4

Even I as Von fan dont get why people are having issues. As mentioned before already multiple times, G5 was an EXACT rematch. If DevM would have picked another map and/or faction in G5 and had won, THEN it would have been debatable imo.

The complaints about this being not the best decision are reasonable, but then again A_E isnt even hiding this + it ended perfectly (as mentioned above from me)
12 Jun 2017, 13:56 PM
#66
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 236 | Subs: 1

First of all, we have to acknowledge that the decision was made in a very heated environment (with even have to continue to cast etc.). The deal was more or less fair, even if not perfect ofc. According to the rules, Von should have gotten the win at that point. Why, you may ask? First, because DevM did not save a screenshot of the Bugsplat, thus violating the rules (as far as I can see). Second, because you cannot argue with hypothetics such as "he could have, should have, would have won". Where do you draw the line then? What if it had happened before the RNG strike? As you said before, clearer rules for the next time should settle the problem once and for all.

On another note, it is ridicilous how insulting some people become over this. DevM was clearly ahead, and he deserves to the final (I am neutral, not favouring any of those two btw). And it was a very stressful situation in which the call was made. As most people say, maybe it was not an error, but certainly a decision in the grey zone... but shit happens, I guess. I am looking forward to the finals despite everything!
12 Jun 2017, 14:09 PM
#67
avatar of FLTA

Posts: 200 | Subs: 1

Even I as Von fan dont get why people are having issues. As mentioned before already multiple times, G5 was an EXACT rematch. If DevM would have picked another map and/or faction in G5 and had won, THEN it would have been debatable imo.

The complaints about this being not the best decision are reasonable, but then again A_E isnt even hiding this + it ended perfectly (as mentioned above from me)


+1

Big trend in this thread seems to be also "It doesn't happen to me, or many other people I see" is complete BS imo. I know plenty of people who have the problem of bugsplatting, I know DevMs game loads the slowest in the first match he plays (maybe RAM issue). Even this is just my personal experience, just like your experience of not getting bugsplat, but I think we all know it can be an issue.

Also people are saying DevM could pick faction and win the game with that. But it was an exact rematch like aerafield said, and if DevM had won it it would have been 3-1. Now the score was 2-2, because of a bugsplat. I don't see why either of the players should be favored here, if Von got win+selection he would have had tremendous advantage, but he got a free map win. I think it was either that, or just rematch.

Now I'm biased here, but I don't have any doubts so many of the people are here for either Von or DevM. That being said, I saw the same complains when DevM bugsplat in our series, saying he did it because he was losing. From my perspective, I don't see DevM as that kind of a player, and I didn't see myself winning heavily in that game either.

To me this seems more like a witch-hunt towards DevM, for one reason or another. If you say they needed to rematch with no one getting a map or favor, I think you got a decent point. If you say Von needed to get 1 score AND map/fac selection, you're completely wrong.
12 Jun 2017, 14:34 PM
#68
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2072 | Subs: 2

Hah, reminds me of cornering IPlay4Keeps in his base in a tourny and then COH1 crashed on me. I got the loss ofc. Shit happens.
12 Jun 2017, 14:35 PM
#69
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Sigh...
I don't even want to take the time to explain here, but i will i gues...

Based on the rules, i would say the one who gets a bugsplat loses. However this isn't said in the rules it says: "In the event of a bugsplat/ crash: if both players agree - either restart the game or nominate a winner for that game of the match.". The rules don't clearly say who this winner is going to be! So the option: Devm just get's a lose is an option, it's not what had to happen according to the rules.

Now the situation was that Devm clearly won the game, you can say anything you want von but it was clear that against a top tier player like Devm you wouldn't have won this ;). This makes the situation more complicated, because why wouldn't you give the win to Devm already because he clearly won?

1. Gcs is a fan based community tourney etc. etc., which means we just want good games. Giving Devm a free win would have felt a bit like an abruptly end of the series imo.
2. According to the rules you could have either nominated VonIvan or Devm as the winner of that game. We could have given Devm the win, which if the game would have continued is what would have happened. OR we could give VonIvan the win, which if the game continued is not what would have happened.

If we would have given VonIvan the win this would mean that Devm who already had earned his place in the finals would still have a chance of losing his place to vonivan. Giving VonIvan a win would have ment he would have a second chance that he otherwise wouldn't have got!

We decided to give VonIvan the win. This ment Devm had the risk of (moral seen unfairly) losing his place in the finals. VonIvan (moral seen unfairly) got a second chance. We decided to give Devm faction pick AND map pick, because we wanted to compensate Devm for the things he can't do shit about but did effect him in a negative way: the bugsplat. This ment that devm was only slightly effected by the bugsplat and vonivan was positively effected by the bugsplat. Don't forget as well that vonivan already lost his faction pick in game 5 if he would have won the 4th game (which is impossible). So the only thing that Devm gained was map pick. But what did devm do?

Devm decided to play on the same map, same factions. This means that game 4 basically got replayed. Devm again got on the back foot, but again he managed to pull it back and he won. This proofs that he would have won game 4. Which means that should continue to the finals. Only this time this game 4 was a game 5. But that was the only difference!

Devm rightfully earned his place in the finals and vonivan got a second chance but wasn't able to take it.
In chat we had to make decisions fast, bcs we didn't want to keep the crowd waiting. This means that sometimes you have to ask someone to be silent so you can do your talk without getting interupted. This "shut up" was not aimed on anyone in specific and if you don't believe this (lol) than you should ask vonivan and devm if they felt like it was aimed at anyone in specific.

You guys are grown ups, don't act like childs please. What's the big deal in the end? I don't see any problems at all. The players don't see any problems at all. The situation was weird and never seen before and handled in a good way.

Some people are against Devm and Aimstrong, because they have the feeling they only come back bcs of the money. They just love the competitive seen of coh2, but that's it. They have pride and surely money motivates them as well, who wouldn't be motivated by money? But this doesn't take the fact away that they are just better then some other players. If you want to see the best games, you can't exclude them just bcs they don't play coh2 in an "active" way. All this cashgrab hate is just people being jealous, because they can't play a game "inactive" and still do very good in the competitive scene. Be a man, and just accept that they are better and respect them. No need for all this hate.

And yes i know, there is only a little part of the community that feels this jealous hate. It's sad that this small part shouts so much, but we shouldn't be distracted by this and just ignore it.


In the end if you look at the results etc., nothing has changed at all.
Long live GCS and :hyper: Hype :hyper: for the finals!
12 Jun 2017, 15:09 PM
#70
avatar of DanielD

Posts: 781 | Subs: 3

This thread has some pretty pathetic, childish stuff. The rules state the refs get to decide what happens if there's a crash. Von was going to lose that game. I'd be embarrassed not to take the loss if I was Von.

All you people freaking because you donated ten dollars and the player you like lost need to step back and ask yourself what the matter is that you're wasting energy on this.

AE I have mad respect for your attempts to be transparent and I'm sorry they're mostly wasted on this bunch.
12 Jun 2017, 15:32 PM
#71
avatar of pegasos

Posts: 83

DevM won that game. No doubt.
VonIvan had no chance clearly.
12 Jun 2017, 15:50 PM
#72
avatar of [The]Crazyman64335

Posts: 20

AE why are you saying you and DevM have no History? That's just a blatant lie.

Regarding the decision it was a poor one. I said this when I played vindicarex back in the ocf open qualifier semis when he dropped twice in a row and was rewarded with a win. Refs and tourny officials need to make it very clear, you drop, crash or whatever. You concede the game at that exact VP count.

Others deciding the fate of players is Bs. Especially in coh2's case with the game being pure RNG. Von probably felt like he was fighting the admins and devm come that 5th game. Although I won't speak for him that's certainly what I felt like after my OCF incident .
12 Jun 2017, 15:58 PM
#73
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10627 | Subs: 9

First, thank heavens A_E opened this thread and took it out of the Shout Box. Kudos A_E :thumb:

Second, when everyone who has taken a pop at A_E calms down, organising big tourneys is time-consuming, fun, but wow! Does it have the capacity to bite back!

The cynic in me says nobody will ever create the perfect tourney for anything, online or in RL. The naysayers will always be there. You cannot please everybody. And we are all human: making mistakes is written into our DNA.

If this thread continues, please post with respect, and an understanding that there is no conspiracy. All that tourney organisers ever want is to please. Without them you would either be doing your homework, writing your thesis, carrying out domestic chores, or twiddling your thumbs, wondering why there are no tourneys.
12 Jun 2017, 16:12 PM
#74
avatar of Leveltake

Posts: 11

Devm was CLEARLY winning, no doubt at all. Rules say ref decide. They did. End of discussion.
12 Jun 2017, 16:26 PM
#75
avatar of momo4sho
Senior Caster Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 464 | Subs: 1

I'm confident von will respond somewhat soon and hopefully post screens of the chat rather than an edited paste log[speculation on my part ].
12 Jun 2017, 16:52 PM
#76
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 639 | Subs: 1

I feel the whole thing was handled very maturely given the rules of the tournament and the concrete situation at hand.

The only thing that is unfortunate is that rules are open to case by case interpretation. I think strong, concrete rules should be made ahead of time in such a way that absolves A_E or Stormless and everyone else from any potential interpretations and therefore possible witch hunts because you'll always have people unhappy, as evidenced by reactions to this. Then, if anyone complains, just point them to the rules and say "these are the rules, we can't do shit about it."

In my opinion this particular incident could not have been handled more maturely than it was by A_E and Stormless and they have my full respect, but the policy should be changed for any future tournaments.

My opinion for a future policy (and this is where you can disagree with me): this is a solved problem in esports and is not up to a discussion. Game crash = loss. I do not care if you are top ranked player with all 5 factions playing versus an AFK guy and you have 10 tanks and he has just 1 engineer and you have him cornered in his base and you have a triple cap and there are 7 VPs left on the ticker. If you bugsplat, you get a loss regardless of the situation.

You already do in automatch and noone is complaining about that.

If you want to solve it some other way please do. But have a ready solution in place that leaves nothing to any arbitrary implication. The next time a crash happens it won't be nearly as clear cut, and then what will we do?
12 Jun 2017, 16:55 PM
#77
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

I'm confident von will respond somewhat soon and hopefully post screens of the chat rather than an edited paste log[speculation on my part ].

dude :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
12 Jun 2017, 16:56 PM
#78
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2455 | Subs: 21

My side of the story:

As you know yesterday I had my semi-final games vs devM. I thought the games went well and congratulate DevM on the win and advance to the finals, he deserved it.

What I did not appreciate however, was the way A_E decided to alter the rules for a poor reason and silence anything I had to say in a rude manner.

The chat logs he posted are not the REAL chat logs I have screenshotted and saved from steam itself. Hooligan can back me up on this, as he was my ref before A_E got involved.


http://i.imgur.com/iMXuLke.png

http://i.imgur.com/A7ekguw.png

http://i.imgur.com/Q3Y7g6Q.png

http://i.imgur.com/YP1DslM.png

http://i.imgur.com/1JcHowf.png

http://i.imgur.com/qhopPMN.png

http://i.imgur.com/ztFMoPt.png

http://i.imgur.com/mW9vFsO.png

As you can see, the way this "exception" was conducted AFTER rules were pre-agreed to, as shown in the chat log itself, makes me feel this was handled in the worst way possible.

What makes this worse is that the bias was even shown on screen......right before my final game was to be played.

https://clips.twitch.tv/EvilColdBeefWutFace
https://clips.twitch.tv/TawdryLazyInternTwitchRPG



I feel this is NOT what someone should do in said scenario. Again, I am not trying to change what is already done, but I wish to show my side of the story so people know the truth, and nothing but the truth.

A_E, please do not edit things like you have in your original chat log when posting.

I appreciate the work done in this tournament, but I do not appreciate being lied to, or seeing lies.
12 Jun 2017, 16:59 PM
#79
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4045 | Subs: 3



+1 to aerafield, Talisman, and |GB| The Hooligan486.

Rules says the referee makes the decision if no agreement is made. He did.

Even then game 5 was a direct rematch of game 4 and both players used the exact same strategy in the following match.
12 Jun 2017, 17:01 PM
#80
avatar of Luciano

Posts: 712

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