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Dual Kubel Cancer

25 May 2017, 14:10 PM
#23
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


Try managing 4 kubels at once with their glorious pathing, it's simply impossible

I do it all the time in teamgames. Sure, they get stuck sometimes, but who cares if you have 4? It's a lot easier than microing jackson or sherman spam.
25 May 2017, 18:33 PM
#24
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1


May I suggest to call this a "Tumor" instead?


"Tumor" is actually a very accurate word to describe OKW's negative influence in the game...
25 May 2017, 22:12 PM
#25
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



"Tumor" is actually a very accurate word to describe OKW's negative influence in the game...

More like global warming. A glaring issue that stupid people insist is not a problem.
25 May 2017, 22:39 PM
#26
avatar of DanielD

Posts: 783 | Subs: 3

https://www.coh2.org/topic/60897/gcs-main-round-stats-w-updates

Edit: The link is just to be clear that frustrating to play against is not the same as strong. Multiple kubels doesnt scale at all it's a cheesy all in.
25 May 2017, 23:39 PM
#27
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

BLOB YOUR Gardening UNITS before attack!!!
26 May 2017, 03:59 AM
#28
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 424 | Subs: 2

One tactic that can be difficult but possible is going duel RE into Rifles. Use RE to rush important houses or push with Rifles to back off Kubels. If you don't mind cheesing which tbh given kubel annoying cost effectiveness and OKW in general you can ghost tank traps to prevent Kubel from moving.
26 May 2017, 13:28 PM
#29
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2017, 22:39 PMDanielD
https://www.coh2.org/topic/60897/gcs-main-round-stats-w-updates

Edit: The link is just to be clear that frustrating to play against is not the same as strong. Multiple kubels doesnt scale at all it's a cheesy all in.


This. Think of it like this, every Kubel is 1 less Volk. Kubels don't scale past a few minutes...
26 May 2017, 14:04 PM
#30
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 13:28 PMBudwise


This. Think of it like this, every Kubel is 1 less Volk. Kubels don't scale past a few minutes...

That's not really how it ends up working though, in my experience using and playing against it, and I can say exactly why. The thing is, kubels don't bleed any manpower, and as long as you really go all in and crutch on the kubels, using the sturms very conservatively, you can end up with in excess of like 600mp by the time you set up your first truck. By then, you should have 2cp and can spam pfusies if you so choose or just roll with volks from there. Meanwhile, your opponent will probably be frustrated and bled hard, so you can take advantage of that. I even spammed jaegers once or twice. In theory, it's a stupid all in, but as long as you go ALL kubels, it really doesn't matter when they start dying.
26 May 2017, 14:56 PM
#31
avatar of Kobunite
Patrion 15

Posts: 615

Had to do some cleaning around these parts - stay on topic instead of trying to get others to flame.
26 May 2017, 21:34 PM
#32
avatar of GhostTX

Posts: 315


That's not really how it ends up working though, in my experience using and playing against it, and I can say exactly why. The thing is, kubels don't bleed any manpower, and as long as you really go all in and crutch on the kubels, using the sturms very conservatively, you can end up with in excess of like 600mp by the time you set up your first truck. By then, you should have 2cp and can spam pfusies if you so choose or just roll with volks from there. Meanwhile, your opponent will probably be frustrated and bled hard, so you can take advantage of that. I even spammed jaegers once or twice. In theory, it's a stupid all in, but as long as you go ALL kubels, it really doesn't matter when they start dying.

I totally agree, while USF can put damage and force 1 Kubel to back off, you still have the 2nd. All the while, USF is losing men in the squad which forces a retreat and then MP expenditures. Meanwhile, fix Kubels and OKW is down nothing. One volk to reinforce the 2 Kubels and a second volk to start backcapping. Meanwhile, USF hasn't capped jack.

IMO, the DPS of the Kubel or armor should be reduced and/or long range DPS of the SP should be reduced.
26 May 2017, 22:21 PM
#33
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 21:34 PMGhostTX

I totally agree, while USF can put damage and force 1 Kubel to back off, you still have the 2nd. All the while, USF is losing men in the squad which forces a retreat and then MP expenditures. Meanwhile, fix Kubels and OKW is down nothing. One volk to reinforce the 2 Kubels and a second volk to start backcapping. Meanwhile, USF hasn't capped jack.

IMO, the DPS of the Kubel or armor should be reduced and/or long range DPS of the SP should be reduced.

As stated above, I make 4 kubels lol. That really really amplifies the effect actually, especially against usf who only have rifles. Then I transition to pfusies or even a few jaegers backed up by a luchs. Really, four kubels isn't that hard to control. Just like using jacksons or su85s, except if jacksons and su85s had shittier pathing and way more armor. SP long range damage is really negligible tho.
2 Jun 2017, 04:53 AM
#34
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374



Isn't kubel exactly what counters green cover before you have vet1 nades? You can win almost any fight in early game just by pushing rifles from cover with kubel and shooting with some other unit, preferably sturmpios.



Kubel does not win vs rifles that are in green cover.

if you are dealing with two kubels with 1 rifle then you need to teach yourself to keep your army together so they can support one another.

the whole deal with USF is that you need to really push your engagements into your favour as much as you can, you really need to work hard at trying to out flank and everything with their units until they are at a decent vet. Double kubel is sure, annoying to deal with, but when you engage properly you can punish the garden out of them
2 Jun 2017, 08:21 AM
#35
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1




Kubel does not win vs rifles that are in green cover.

if you are dealing with two kubels with 1 rifle then you need to teach yourself to keep your army together so they can support one another.

the whole deal with USF is that you need to really push your engagements into your favour as much as you can, you really need to work hard at trying to out flank and everything with their units until they are at a decent vet. Double kubel is sure, annoying to deal with, but when you engage properly you can punish the garden out of them


Captain Obvious is there to the rescue, we're safe now.
2 Jun 2017, 19:45 PM
#36
avatar of GhostTX

Posts: 315




Kubel does not win vs rifles that are in green cover.

if you are dealing with two kubels with 1 rifle then you need to teach yourself to keep your army together so they can support one another.

the whole deal with USF is that you need to really push your engagements into your favour as much as you can, you really need to work hard at trying to out flank and everything with their units until they are at a decent vet. Double kubel is sure, annoying to deal with, but when you engage properly you can punish the garden out of them

You're dealing with the Kubels AND an SP. So if you push, you're taking SP damage. If you focus on the SP, you get Kubel damage. If it was just a Kubel, that's one thing. It's the "pairing" that devolves the play.
2 Jun 2017, 21:39 PM
#37
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1


You're dealing with the Kubels AND an SP. So if you push, you're taking SP damage. If you focus on the SP, you get Kubel damage. If it was just a Kubel, that's one thing. It's the "pairing" that devolves the play.


Stuff like this would be ok if OKW didn't scale as well as it does into the lategame, challenging USF early dominance and this is just wrong IMHO, it all begins with their starting Engineer unit.
2 Jun 2017, 22:13 PM
#38
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Stuff like this would be ok if OKW didn't scale as well as it does into the lategame, challenging USF early dominance and this is just wrong IMHO, it all begins with their starting Engineer unit.

yeah. Plus, kubels are the most expendable unit in the game.
2 Jun 2017, 22:13 PM
#39
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Stuff like this would be ok if OKW didn't scale as well as it does into the lategame, challenging USF early dominance and this is just wrong IMHO, it all begins with their starting Engineer unit.

yeah. Plus, kubels are the most expendable unit in the game.
7 Jun 2017, 05:22 AM
#40
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 374


You're dealing with the Kubels AND an SP. So if you push, you're taking SP damage. If you focus on the SP, you get Kubel damage. If it was just a Kubel, that's one thing. It's the "pairing" that devolves the play.


so you are saying you are fighting an army that is sort of a combined arms. so what i get from what you are saying is that you are fighting someone who is keeping their army together

are you keeping your army together as well? or do you have squads capping all over the place zerging the map?
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