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russian armor

Penals op

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8 May 2017, 08:26 AM
#81
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

penals are high reinforcement cost, high pop cap 9, high buy cost 300. and slow to get out on field. have no oh rah easy to pinn and lose manpower. lose long range to volks and gren which cost less. snare is easy to dodge. ptrs kills anti infintry ability. if u keep killing penals u drain enough mp to give u a good chance to win the game. penals were nerfed already last patch now they being talked about like there even strong. penals are fine


High reinforce cost? Correct me if I'm wrong but the cost is the same as volk per model.
8 May 2017, 13:16 PM
#82
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2242

they are too strong since they wipe squads...on the move..unupgraded. Cause their accurracy+ reload is too high.
9 May 2017, 00:02 AM
#83
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

they are too strong since they wipe squads...on the move..unupgraded. Cause their accurracy+ reload is too high.


Strum can wipe squads on the move while unupgraded.
9 May 2017, 01:05 AM
#84
avatar of Nano

Posts: 212



Strum can wipe squads on the move while unupgraded.


Time to do a thought experiment:

1. Imagine a target you need to shoot at.
2. Imagine running at the target and shooting with an SMG at close(ish) range.
3. Imagine running at the target and shooting with an SVT-40 at long range.
4. Evaluate results.

(I forget the exact weapon Sturms use).
9 May 2017, 06:10 AM
#85
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2242



Strum can wipe squads on the move while unupgraded.


u forget that penals can wipe other units on long range, hav 6 models, cost the same like the 4model pios, have 2 satchels, tank rifles, ...
9 May 2017, 07:34 AM
#87
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

Guys, it's called "Sturm", meaning "storm" in English, which is the exact same fucking word only with a U instead of an O. Why do you always need to write more complicated and wrong words?

German: "Sturmpioniere"
English: "Stormpioneers"

German: "Sturmgrenadiere"
English: "Stormgrenadiers"

The Sturmgrenadiers use the MP40, the Sturmpioneers use the StG 40 (Sturmgewehr 40).
9 May 2017, 23:04 PM
#88
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987



you had more than 8 month to give your point of view on penal, now it's too late.



LOL "too late"

Why on earth would it ever be too late to raise an issue? Do you think one change will happen and that is the CHANGE TO END ALL CHANGES? Wake up dude.

It wasn't clear to see from just patch notes and beta testing. Now it's pretty clear. I've seen it 5/6 games vs Soviets PENALS - DSHK - SHERMANZ



I've tried light vehicles but they don't really wreck them them enough to slow them down. Plus it takes a ton of micro from controlling other units so your light vehicle doesn't get satchelled.

Not looking at all units at once? Here's a satchel to the face. It's not a huge issue but why do they get such a powerful ability that can wipe an MG / garrisoned unit so easily...



Anyway, big issue is Penal DPS and DSHK. This build has no real downsides and the commander has a call-in tank superior to Axis PIV.
10 May 2017, 05:34 AM
#89
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Guys, it's called "Sturm", meaning "storm" in English, which is the exact same fucking word only with a U instead of an O. Why do you always need to write more complicated and wrong words?

German: "Sturmpioniere"
English: "Stormpioneers"

German: "Sturmgrenadiere"
English: "Stormgrenadiers"

The Sturmgrenadiers use the MP40, the Sturmpioneers use the StG 40 (Sturmgewehr 40).


I don´t know who is using "sturmgrenadiers", it´s even more confusing than ever.

We have the stu(o)rmpios, the panzergrens(pgrens) and the assault (ass) grens. Why would anyone call the assault grens "sturmgrens" ?
To confuse the reader with a possible new name of the pgrens or spios ? No thanks.

And please, stop discussing about this problem here, we are seriously derailining now. :ot:

If you want to continue a discussion with me about this topic, please us the PM :)
10 May 2017, 13:30 PM
#90
avatar of Yukiko
Admin Red  Badge

Posts: 2436 | Subs: 2

Hid one off topic post and edited two others to keep the thread more civil.
10 May 2017, 17:40 PM
#91
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 13:30 PMYukiko
Hid one off topic post and edited two others to keep the thread more civil.


thank you !


LOL "too late"

Why on earth would it ever be too late to raise an issue? Do you think one change will happen and that is the CHANGE TO END ALL CHANGES? Wake up dude.

It wasn't clear to see from just patch notes and beta testing. Now it's pretty clear. I've seen it 5/6 games vs Soviets PENALS - DSHK - SHERMANZ


you had 6 MONTH to get your shit up and tell to the balance team what you think about penal.
if you couldn't do it in 6 month, i seriously doubt you can do it now, i mean speaking on balance with real arguments, stats and maybe even a replay.

so here is my point, again, no one gives a shit about your "issue" anymore.
With some luck, they could be allowed to keep working on balance and so can't waste another 6 month testing penals because you were "too slow" (nothing insulting)

if there is further change in balance, i look forward to see you in feedback thread :)
10 May 2017, 17:51 PM
#92
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13376 | Subs: 1



thank you !



you had 6 MONTH to get your shit up and tell to the balance team what you think about penal.
if you couldn't do it in 6 month, i seriously doubt you can do it now, i mean speaking on balance with real arguments, stats and maybe even a replay.

so here is my point, again, no one gives a shit about your "issue" anymore.
With some luck, they could be allowed to keep working on balance and so can't waste another 6 month testing penals because you were "too slow" (nothing insulting) :)

I and other members of the community, actually pointed out the problems that will come from:
1) USF mortar
2) Penals X2 far DPS
3) VG ST44
in the feedback for the June patch of 2016 to Relic (who is the one the implement the changes and not modders), but they decided to go ahead anyway. So feed back was there a year ago Relic simply choose not to listen.

So it is not actually an issue of not giving feedback.
10 May 2017, 17:59 PM
#93
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987



thank you !



you had 6 MONTH to get your shit up and tell to the balance team what you think about penal.
if you couldn't do it in 6 month, i seriously doubt you can do it now, i mean speaking on balance with real arguments, stats and maybe even a replay.

so here is my point, again, no one gives a shit about your "issue" anymore.
With some luck, they could be allowed to keep working on balance and so can't waste another 6 month testing penals because you were "too slow" (nothing insulting)

if there is further change in balance, i look forward to see you in feedback thread :)


Yo,

6 months, yes, we know.


THIS IS NOT THE END OF BALANCING THE GAME! MORE CHANGES CAN BE MADE!:welcome:

Sheesh...


The patches have fixed a lot of issues and created / illuminated new ones. So this thread is for people asking the team to address those issues. It's not for people saying "it's too late nothing can be changed ever!"

C'mon... It's never too late, let a bit of positivity into your life :)
10 May 2017, 18:47 PM
#94
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Zero months of community interaction creating patch changes, followed by half a year of selective feedback and outright dismissal of suggestions.

I mean ffs the feedback that was listened to was from replays where the players were explicitly not playing competitively and fixing the data: banning use of maxims and using the replays from those games as valid analysis of how changes will affect the whole game for everyone.

There is a whole lot of room and opportunities to fix and improve this game...
10 May 2017, 18:55 PM
#95
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 17:51 PMVipper

I and other members of the community, actually pointed out the problems that will come from:
1) USF mortar
2) Penals X2 far DPS
3) VG ST44
in the feedback for the June patch of 2016 to Relic (who is the one the implement the changes and not modders), but they decided to go ahead anyway. So feed back was there a year ago Relic simply choose not to listen.

So it is not actually an issue of not giving feedback.

1-Reminder that the test were made with basically an SU mortar and they released the OH mortar on steroids into the game.
2-Problem was not the SVT but the combination with flamer on top of strong Guards into light tank play + late game vet acc.
3-There was meant to be problems when you make a rework on the whole faction and how it works. At that moment i preferred another type of rework been done (keep resource starve and change other points) but oh well, you work with what you have.
10 May 2017, 22:54 PM
#97
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13376 | Subs: 1



i am not speaking about the RELIC "balance" patch which is a joke.

it's about the april 2017 balance patch, supervised by Smith/GG/miragefla : you could download a mod to test the change and give feedback already in october 2016.

i can still remember this thread on feedback, with dozens of page on people giving their point of view on penal. sometimes interesting point of view, supported by replay, often the usual bullshit we see in balance forum.

All patch go thru Relic. They make all the decisions.

I and other members did downloaded the preview ,test it and give feedback. Relic give a choice for Penals between flamers and PTRS and the majority chose to remove flamers.
11 May 2017, 09:05 AM
#98
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 22:54 PMVipper

All patch go thru Relic. They make all the decisions.

I and other members did downloaded the preview ,test it and give feedback. Relic give a choice for Penals between flamers and PTRS and the majority chose to remove flamers.



By "Relic", you mean the same company that fcked up its new game (DOW3) by not listening to community feedback ?

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/285190,231430#1m

i won't argue with you anymore, if you want to keep talking about penals balance then do it.
But my point is still valid, the time to give feedback on it is now over which makes of your opinion (on the penal ofc) garbage :)


note the 40 pages thread : https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/243342/winter-balance-preview-mod-feedback/p40
11 May 2017, 09:57 AM
#99
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 577

Not to mention the fact that if the community finally agrees on, say, 4 changes - Relic will allow 1 into the final game, causing imbalance in the remaining 3 that never made it.
13 May 2017, 20:19 PM
#100
avatar of Dyzfunction

Posts: 73

wow a few days ago more people were playing CoH than Warhammer.
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