Login

russian armor

OKW vs USF 1on1 balance

18 Feb 2017, 14:07 PM
#1
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524

Not talking about team-games, exclusively 1on1.

I find that OKW is severly disadvantaged against USF in 1on1 matches early game.

Here is why:

1. Riflemen and RE outclass Volksgrenadiere and Sturmpioniere early on. Even with the best micro Volkgrenadiere have no chance against Riflemen no matter what range. There is no AI option early game for OKW. No sniper, MG, Mortar etc to counter. This allows USF to control the map early since in order to beat one of their squads you need two Volksgrenadier squads.

2. Sturmpioniere can´t reliably 1on1 Riflemen unless you ambush them.

2. Kübelwagen die super fast against USF more so than any other faciton. Now maybe it is just me but RE do so much damage to Kübelwagen. If you shoot at a RE squad with Kübelwagen you can maybe kill 1 or at best 2 models before being almost completly destroyed.

3. Luchs and Stuart hit the field at roughly the same time. Luchs is the only chance you have to effectively kill USF infantry but is countered by the much stronger Stuart. If you go for Puma you can counter Stuart but have nothing AI while Riflemen eat your Puma with their bazookas and Riflemen rifle grenades.

4. Riflemen can lay mines. That means that it is super easy for USF to mine the map since they have multiple Riflemen squads at the same time while OKW can only mine with Sturmpioniere which also need to repair tanks and help your infanty fight.

5. OKW MG is a horrible piece of trash that needs to be buffed. It is amazing how bad it is when trying to control USF infantry. USF MG is again much better.

6. That USF mortar. Enough said.

Whenver I play OKW vs USF I feel like my opponent has a super easy time to fight me while I have to come up with lots of tactics to even stay in the game and get a single medium-tank out. It feels totally unbalanced. And the worst is: Often times you can just tell that the USF player has no skill at all and beats you just because his god damn riflemen and Stuart are way better than their equivalent.
18 Feb 2017, 15:35 PM
#2
avatar of Nubb3r

Posts: 141


Not talking about team-games, exclusively 1on1.


I agree that there are issues, but I will adress these as good as I can with my knowledge, since some of the issues you describe aren't really the problem.


1. Riflemen and RE outclass Volksgrenadiere and Sturmpioniere early on. Even with the best micro Volkgrenadiere have no chance against Riflemen no matter what range. There is no AI option early game for OKW. No sniper, MG, Mortar etc to counter. This allows USF to control the map early since in order to beat one of their squads you need two Volksgrenadier squads.

Early map control and flexibility are USF's strengths. Later on, Volks will outclass them with vet. The key is to get there. Also on long range Volks do win against Rifles very reliably. This is rather a map pool issue. The more cluttered the map, the more you need to be mindful and careful when facing Rifles.


2. Sturmpioniere can´t reliably 1on1 Riflemen unless you ambush them.

They aren't meant to. Sturms are the key to face aggressive USF in cluttered maps, so I will agree that you need to ambush them. This works great when you manage to do it, but again. Sturms outclass any other engi squad and unlike any other engi unit, can even take on Rifles underthe right circumstances. Their price and upkeep reflects this imo.


2. Kübelwagen die super fast against USF more so than any other faciton. Now maybe it is just me but RE do so much damage to Kübelwagen. If you shoot at a RE squad with Kübelwagen you can maybe kill 1 or at best 2 models before being almost completly destroyed.


I don't believe this. REs are good at long range, but their overall dps is miniscule, so unless there is cover or any other deviation from a "standard 1v1" situation, Kubel should win this reliably.


3. Luchs and Stuart hit the field at roughly the same time. Luchs is the only chance you have to effectively kill USF infantry but is countered by the much stronger Stuart. If you go for Puma you can counter Stuart but have nothing AI while Riflemen eat your Puma with their bazookas and Riflemen rifle grenades.


This is a valid point imo. This wouldn't be much of a deal, if Raketens weren't so fucking unreliable.
But the problem isn't Luchs vs. Stuart timing, since Luchs is that much better at anti inf. It's probably worth mentioning here, that Riflemen AT nades are very good at keeping Luchs away, whereas Volks faust are kinda short ranged and can't achieve the same effect on the Stuart.


4. Riflemen can lay mines. That means that it is super easy for USF to mine the map since they have multiple Riflemen squads at the same time while OKW can only mine with Sturmpioniere which also need to repair tanks and help your infanty fight.

Riflemen mines are doctrinal, so that puts it into other territory in terms of balance discussion and I wouldn't quite call it an issue in the general balance matchup. I will agree that Sturm are indeed working overtime right now, because Raketens are unreliable, Volks have no more Schrecks and repair now comes after a little side tech, so Sturms must repair in the meanwhile, but you might need them elsewhere.


5. OKW MG is a horrible piece of trash that needs to be buffed. It is amazing how bad it is when trying to control USF infantry. USF MG is again much better.

OKW's MG34 used to be doctrinal and I still don't see them as essential OKW unit portfolio. It's good that OKW has got asuppression platform, but I like the fact that it's not as good at what it does, since OKW isn't built around having it. Same goes for the USF mortar, which I will adress below.


6. That USF mortar. Enough said.

As with the MG34 for OKW, USF was not supposed to have a mortar. They still got one, after the community tested and agreed to have a light mortar, that was supposed to be a mobile, light damage mortar, that's main purpose was to provide smoke. However, after the testing lelic decided to implement this broken mortar, which will be hopefully changed to be what the community agreed to.


Whenver I play OKW vs USF I feel like my opponent has a super easy time to fight me while I have to come up with lots of tactics to even stay in the game and get a single medium-tank out. It feels totally unbalanced. And the worst is: Often times you can just tell that the USF player has no skill at all and beats you just because his god damn riflemen and Stuart are way better than their equivalent.


Overall, I would count most issues you listed as invalid, except for the mortar that you mentioned rightfully and Stuart dominance. The Stuart will hopefully be kept more in check when Raketens will be more reliable eventually and in the same way hopefully the USF mortar will be changed in the right way. Keep in mind that my comments are based on my own limited experience and I don't claim to have figured it all out, but after seeing numerous top level players face each other, the key issues with OKW vs. USF seem to be the risky T3-rush tech vs. underwhelming heavy-T1, the overpowered USF mortar and most importantly Raketen unreliability.
18 Feb 2017, 15:57 PM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2017, 15:35 PMNubb3r


I agree that there are issues, but I will adress these as good as I can with my knowledge, since some of the issues you describe aren't really the problem.


Early map control and flexibility are USF's strengths. Later on, Volks will outclass them with vet. The key is to get there. Also on long range Volks do win against Rifles very reliably. This is rather a map pool issue. The more cluttered the map, the more you need to be mindful and careful when facing Rifles.


They aren't meant to. Sturms are the key to face aggressive USF in cluttered maps, so I will agree that you need to ambush them. This works great when you manage to do it, but again. Sturms outclass any other engi squad and unlike any other engi unit, can even take on Rifles underthe right circumstances. Their price and upkeep reflects this imo.



I don't believe this. REs are good at long range, but their overall dps is miniscule, so unless there is cover or any other deviation from a "standard 1v1" situation, Kubel should win this reliably.



This is a valid point imo. This wouldn't be much of a deal, if Raketens weren't so fucking unreliable.
But the problem isn't Luchs vs. Stuart timing, since Luchs is that much better at anti inf. It's probably worth mentioning here, that Riflemen AT nades are very good at keeping Luchs away, whereas Volks faust are kinda short ranged and can't achieve the same effect on the Stuart.


Riflemen mines are doctrinal, so that puts it into other territory in terms of balance discussion and I wouldn't quite call it an issue in the general balance matchup. I will agree that Sturm are indeed working overtime right now, because Raketens are unreliable, Volks have no more Schrecks and repair now comes after a little side tech, so Sturms must repair in the meanwhile, but you might need them elsewhere.


OKW's MG34 used to be doctrinal and I still don't see them as essential OKW unit portfolio. It's good that OKW has got asuppression platform, but I like the fact that it's not as good at what it does, since OKW isn't built around having it. Same goes for the USF mortar, which I will adress below.


As with the MG34 for OKW, USF was not supposed to have a mortar. They still got one, after the community tested and agreed to have a light mortar, that was supposed to be a mobile, light damage mortar, that's main purpose was to provide smoke. However, after the testing lelic decided to implement this broken mortar, which will be hopefully changed to be what the community agreed to.



Overall, I would count most issues you listed as invalid, except for the mortar that you mentioned rightfully and Stuart dominance. The Stuart will hopefully be kept more in check when Raketens will be more reliable eventually and in the same way hopefully the USF mortar will be changed in the right way. Keep in mind that my comments are based on my own limited experience and I don't claim to have figured it all out, but after seeing numerous top level players face each other, the key issues with OKW vs. USF seem to be the risky T3-rush tech vs. underwhelming heavy-T1, the overpowered USF mortar and most importantly Raketen unreliability.


From my experience Riflemen do win against Volksgrenadiere at long range if cover is equal not as comfortable as from mid-range but that should be expected.

I also do not agree that Volksgrenadiere will "outclass" Riflemen mid- and late-game. They might close the gap a little but BAR equipped Riflemen at Vet3 are still better then STG-equipped Volksgrenadiere at Vet5 especially because STG doesnt add much long-range DPS which is the only area Volksgrenadiere are decent.

Sturmpioniere are better than any other Pioneer unit because without them OKW would be totally helpless early game.

Riflemen mines are doctrinal but the commander they are in is pretty much meta. Riflemen laying mines all over the map is something that should be adressed. You can´t have Sturmpioniere with mine detectors everywhere, especially not against USF.

At least with the other factions mines and demo charges are being used by Pioneer units so they cant be spammed all over the map unless the player decides to dedicate mulitple pioneer units to mines. Riflemen can engage in their regular primary role: fighting, all the while laying mines. This is bullshit IMO. At least nerf the mines so they are clearly worse then mines layed by pios.

I can show you a replay of Kübelwagen vs RE. RE was in yellow cover, got engaged by my Kübel at long range and easily beat Kübel. Had to retreat it after only killing 1 model while Kübel was at 1/5 HP.

18 Feb 2017, 16:01 PM
#4
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

Sturms beat REs in a 1v1 if they close in on them fast enough before the USF player can react with Volley fire.

As mentioned above Volks beat Rifles in a 1v1 at long range, most of the time, however most good USF players of course, if they're smart, try to close the gap, but if your Sturms are there you can hold them in place and have supporting fire from your volks.

However, as far as vet goes, yes, Volks do have more vet, however, unlike Rifles, who will reach Vet 3 faster than Volk Vet 5 will be more effective, easier to achieve and easier to keep alive than getting Volks to Vet 5 and then having them on the field long enough for their vet to count towards anything.

I can't comment on the Kubel or Luchs as I never play with them.

But as it stands right now, the MG34 is really useless and should be made the same price as Volks while being buffed and their requirement in order to be built needs to be removed.

The argument of "but they're not supposed to have an MG!!!!!11!!" is thrown completely out of the window with the mortar addition to the USF.
18 Feb 2017, 16:22 PM
#5
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524

I tested Volksgrenadiere vs Riflemen in Cheat Mode and in 5 cases of long distance fighting without movement and cover Riflemen won 3. Although all fights came down to 1v1 or 2v1 so it can really go either way. So to say that Volksgrenadiere reliably beat Riflemen at long range is wrong.

In mid-range battles Volkegrenadiere lose with usually 3 riflemen remaining. Again no movement no cover.

Didn´t test close-range battles.
18 Feb 2017, 16:24 PM
#6
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

Could you upload some replays?
18 Feb 2017, 16:26 PM
#7
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524



There.
18 Feb 2017, 16:26 PM
#8
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524

Or do you mean cheat mode testing replays?
18 Feb 2017, 16:45 PM
#10
avatar of Nubb3r

Posts: 141


... instead of pushing for actual change so lesser skilled players can also play a relaxing match instead of always trying to be the best at a fucking online internet game.


You have a point, but competitive 1v1, which OP clearly mentioned that is the only perspective important to him in this discussion is all about trying to be the best at a fucking online internet game.

And catering towards lesser skilled players, so they can also play a relaxing match is just not going to happen in that environment. I mean, how bland and boring will a game become if lesser skilled players could actually play it comfortably?

Competitive, multiplayer and relaxed just don't mix very well outside of coop.
18 Feb 2017, 16:47 PM
#11
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524



Proof that Volksgrenadiere can not realiably beat Riflemen at long-range.

It´s a 50/50 chance at max range.
18 Feb 2017, 16:49 PM
#12
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524



He has doubt that you're a good player, that's why they ask for either a playercard or replays so they can tell you how much you suck and need to improve and that your topic is nothing more than a l2p issue.

That's the coh2.org 1337 mlg pro competitive community for you, tell you you suck, instead of pushing for actual change so lesser skilled players can also play a relaxing match instead of always trying to be the best at a fucking online internet game.


I am not a good player. But my opponent wasn´t very good either. I don´t think that he is better than me. Got very lucky since he could steal my Luchs. I managed to wipe lots of his squads mid-game and got some of my Volksgrenadier squads to Vet 5 but still lost.

But that´s not the point. The point was my OP. That´s not about skill but about balance which I feel is screwed in USF favour in 1on1 against OKW. I explained why.
18 Feb 2017, 16:50 PM
#13
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871



Proof that Volksgrenadiere can not realiably beat Riflemen at long-range.

It´s a 50/50 chance at max range.




There.


Thanks I will take a look when I get home.
18 Feb 2017, 16:51 PM
#14
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1524

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2017, 16:45 PMNubb3r


You have a point, but competitive 1v1, which OP clearly mentioned that is the only perspective important to him in this discussion is all about trying to be the best at a fucking online internet game.

And catering towards lesser skilled players, so they can also play a relaxing match is just not going to happen in that environment. I mean, how bland and boring will a game become if lesser skilled players could actually play it comfortably?

Competitive, multiplayer and relaxed just don't mix very well outside of coop.


Well you can play 1on1 at all skill levels. Not everyone playing 1on1 games is high skilled. I love COH2 and I am trying to improve my 1on1 skills, thats why I come to this site. I have never played an RTS before so it´s ok for me not to be "high-skilled". I have only started to play 1on1 a few weeks ago. Before that I mostly played team-games with random players.

[

Here is another replay from a game today which I managed to win against USF after getting my base destroyed early game.

18 Feb 2017, 18:14 PM
#15
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2017, 16:45 PMNubb3r


You have a point, but competitive 1v1, which OP clearly mentioned that is the only perspective important to him in this discussion is all about trying to be the best at a fucking online internet game.

And catering towards lesser skilled players, so they can also play a relaxing match is just not going to happen in that environment. I mean, how bland and boring will a game become if lesser skilled players could actually play it comfortably?

Competitive, multiplayer and relaxed just don't mix very well outside of coop.


Look, I'm not saying make it easy mode, I'm just saying that some things should be made a little bit less frustrating, like for example OKW holding ground early on in the game.

Or having your emplacements sit idling as a Brit on a large map after the fighting is long gone around them.

At the current moment I am having trouble holding ground as the OKW early game, due to the absence of a Tier 0 MG, and restricting myself from making ANY sort of emplacement with the Brits, because I don't agree with your only in-direct fire unit being static and costing a lot and not being able to dismantle or whatever you want to call it your emplacement after you're done with it like you could in CoH.

I think giving the player more choice on what how to play is better than restricting him and forcing him to play the way YOU want him to, which is what Relic have basically done by locking the MG34 behind a tier requirement and not giving a non-doctrinal mobile in-direct fire alternative to the mortar emplacement for the Brits, they have an alternative for everything else, the Centaur for the Bofors and the Firefly for the 17 Pounder Emplacement, I prefer both of the mobile counterparts but due to the lack of an in-direct fire option I am often forced to dig in with emplacements even if I don't want to because there is no other alternative for me, my vickers are holding the enemy in place by pinning them, but unlike my mortar emplacement, I can move them to another spot where they are needed, and I can't move the fucking emplacement, so after the fighting is done around it it becomes useless and only wastes my pop cap and manpower upkeep due to bad design choices.
18 Feb 2017, 20:26 PM
#16
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

OK so first off, apologies for the huge wall of text but I've tried to be detailed to help you. I did watch the second replay. There are a few things that affected the battles but sometimes rng won. Rifles are a more expensive squad so they should generally win. Anyway..


jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2017, 14:07 PMblvckdream

1. Riflemen and RE outclass Volksgrenadiere and Sturmpioniere early on. Even with the best micro Volkgrenadiere have no chance against Riflemen no matter what range. There is no AI option early game for OKW. No sniper, MG, Mortar etc to counter. This allows USF to control the map early since in order to beat one of their squads you need two Volksgrenadier squads.


RE are generally pretty poor in combat vs most things. SP will wreck them hard majority of the time. The only real instance where they wont is if the US player uses volley fire, but volley fire is questionable at best since the RE will take more damage while using it. If they fail to suppress the enemy unit before it runs out, it will mean death for the squad.

2. Sturmpioniere can´t reliably 1on1 Riflemen unless you ambush them.


SP are a combat / repair unit where as rifles are strictly combat generally speaking. SP will do decent at close range but if they have to close a lot of distance then they wont fare well, but thats the same with any unit designed to do damage at close to mid range. See further down in the replay specific section for help with that.

3. Kübelwagen die super fast against USF more so than any other faciton. Now maybe it is just me but RE do so much damage to Kübelwagen. If you shoot at a RE squad with Kübelwagen you can maybe kill 1 or at best 2 models before being almost completly destroyed.


The Kubel is designed to do light damage, cap and scout. Oddly REs do more damage to the Kubel than rifles do, so its better to engage rifles rather than RE's. One of the main strengths in the Kubel is the fact that it doesn't bleed your manpower, but it bleeds the enemies. If you keep it alive, its a really strong tool in the early game. Fight a squad take a model or two down, retreat for repairs (I like to keep my SP nearby) and then go back in for some more.

4. Luchs and Stuart hit the field at roughly the same time. Luchs is the only chance you have to effectively kill USF infantry but is countered by the much stronger Stuart. If you go for Puma you can counter Stuart but have nothing AI while Riflemen eat your Puma with their bazookas and Riflemen rifle grenades.


With proper use of cover, Volks do OK vs Rifles, esp with the help of SP. A lot of the strength of the Luchs / Stuart comes with timing, depending on who held which points for how long and manpower bleed. The Puma is still OK at killing infantry as well. Regarding bazookas - your first replay only had one which was from the captain. Again a lot of it comes down to timing. Even if you have a luchs and he has a Stuart, you can bait the Stuart into chasing your Luchs and have an AT gun hidden nearby + a faust to kill it. People get greedy :)

5. Riflemen can lay mines. That means that it is super easy for USF to mine the map since they have multiple Riflemen squads at the same time while OKW can only mine with Sturmpioniere which also need to repair tanks and help your infanty fight.


USF not having mines as standard is pretty poor generally. Only 2? doctrines have this ability. I explain later but you really need to get sweepers once you hit the 1st mine. If you sweep his mines after that hes just wasting munitions. Aside from not having a shreck, there is no downside to getting sweepers on SP. You should also place your own mines as well. Hitting mines after the first couple and not buying sweepers isn't anything to do with USF's ability to place mines, but your lack of adaptation to the game.

6. OKW MG is a horrible piece of trash that needs to be buffed. It is amazing how bad it is when trying to control USF infantry. USF MG is again much better.


While the MG34 isnt strong compared to other MG's, it is cheaper and can still be used as a suppression tool. Placement is the key to MG use. If its placed poorly then it doesn't matter how good it is, it wont
be effective.

7. That USF mortar. Enough said.


It is too strong, but its being adjusted in the WBP.

Whenver I play OKW vs USF I feel like my opponent has a super easy time to fight me while I have to come up with lots of tactics to even stay in the game and get a single medium-tank out. It feels totally unbalanced. And the worst is: Often times you can just tell that the USF player has no skill at all and beats you just because his god damn riflemen and Stuart are way better than their equivalent.


I'm sorry to say but at least in the first game, I didn't see much evidence of US having a clear advantage. Sure some aspects of them are stronger, but some are weaker and there were mistakes made. See below in the spoiler for specific things to do with the 1st game.


Some general tips:
  • Keep SP (Sturmpios) near the kubel for fast repairs. The kubel is a great unit early on because it can kill models (cause manpower (MP) loss for your enemy, while losing none your self, assuming the kubel doesnt die. Being able to retreat it and quickly repair is very strong in the early game.
  • Oddly RE do more damage to kubels to rifles, so you are usually better off engaging a rifle squad with it.
  • Always sit squads in cover when capping points, just in case they are attacked as it will give them an advantage.
  • Use attack move order when sending squads around the map. They will stop and fire whenever they see an enemy. This avoids squads running up to another trying to cap a point and should have them at max range initially in engagements, giving you a better chance to win the fight.
  • Cover doesn't work from 0-10 range as units ignore it at this distance. Bear this in mind as sometimes running into cover if you are already very close serves no benefit.
  • Mines win games. Even if they are wiping only a few models at a time or stopping a vehicle from pushing, its enough to win fights and entire games. Always try to be planting mines, especially in random places and not always obvious ones (eg roads). If they enemy is sweeping them all the time, then perhaps not a great investment but they might not always have a sweeper around. Really useful for protecting MG or AT gun flanks.
  • If you cant win an engagement, there is little point staying as you will take more damage / bleed than the enemy will. Sometimes it is better to just retreat and fight another day.
  • Avoid roads if the enemy is using mines, as they are perfect spots.



Have stuck the specific tips about the 1st replay in a spoiler as it is quite long.



I hope this is of some help. 1v1 is much harder than any of the team games and there is a lot to learn with this game so it does take time.

If you don't already, its worth watching some of the top streamers. You can learn a lot by watching them.

For Example:

Von Ivan https://www.twitch.tv/vonivan
Helpinghans https://www.twitch.tv/helpinghans
Luvnest https://www.twitch.tv/luvnest

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2017, 16:38 PMA. Soldier


He has doubt that you're a good player, that's why they ask for either a playercard or replays so they can tell you how much you suck and need to improve and that your topic is nothing more than a l2p issue.

That's the coh2.org 1337 mlg pro competitive community for you, tell you you suck, instead of pushing for actual change so lesser skilled players can also play a relaxing match instead of always trying to be the best at a fucking online internet game.


I'm afraid to say that the outcome of the first game had very little to do with USF vs OKW balance. I just spent the best part of an hour watching his replay twice and writing a lot about it, which he can use to hopefully improve his gameplay and give him a better chance of winning. What have you done to help him except whine? Your post was largely useless and in some cases wrong.

The game is balanced around 1v1 because its near impossible trying to balance it for any other game mode. Balancing so you can have a relaxed game is quite frankly stupid. Go play vs the AI or other people who wants a relaxed game and leave auto match (or specifically 1v1) alone.
18 Feb 2017, 20:43 PM
#17
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

OK so first off, apologies for the huge wall of text but I've tried to be detailed to help you. I did watch the second replay. There are a few things that affected the battles but sometimes rng won. Rifles are a more expensive squad so they should generally win. Anyway..


Some general tips:
  • Keep SP (Sturmpios) near the kubel for fast repairs. The kubel is a great unit early on because it can kill models (cause manpower (MP) loss for your enemy, while losing none your self, assuming the kubel doesnt die. Being able to retreat it and quickly repair is very strong in the early game.
  • Oddly RE do more damage to kubels to rifles, so you are usually better off engaging a rifle squad with it.
  • Always sit squads in cover when capping points, just in case they are attacked as it will give them an advantage.
  • Use attack move order when sending squads around the map. They will stop and fire whenever they see an enemy. This avoids squads running up to another trying to cap a point and should have them at max range initially in engagements, giving you a better chance to win the fight.
  • Cover doesn't work from 0-10 range as units ignore it at this distance. Bear this in mind as sometimes running into cover if you are already very close serves no benefit.
  • Mines win games. Even if they are wiping only a few models at a time or stopping a vehicle from pushing, its enough to win fights and entire games. Always try to be planting mines, especially in random places and not always obvious ones (eg roads). If they enemy is sweeping them all the time, then perhaps not a great investment but they might not always have a sweeper around. Really useful for protecting MG or AT gun flanks.
  • If you cant win an engagement, there is little point staying as you will take more damage / bleed than the enemy will. Sometimes it is better to just retreat and fight another day.
  • Avoid roads if the enemy is using mines, as they are perfect spots.



Have stuck the specific tips about the 1st replay in a spoiler as it is quite long.



I hope this is of some help. 1v1 is much harder than any of the team games and there is a lot to learn with this game so it does take time.

If you don't already, its worth watching some of the top streamers. You can learn a lot by watching them.

For Example:

Von Ivan https://www.twitch.tv/vonivan
Helpinghans https://www.twitch.tv/helpinghans
Luvnest https://www.twitch.tv/luvnest


Yeah, babysitting your paper Armor vehicle sounds like a great idea. Edit: this was sarcasm, of course you have no alternative choice but I think the UC's self repair would be a great addition to the kubel instead of forcing your Sturms to follow your Kubel or at least be very near by it in order to quickly repair it and get it back into the fight.

I mean your Sturms can be busy providing pressure elsewhere, or building, or laying mines, anything really, and you usually don't have another free Sturm squad in the early game in order to follow the kubel plus, you're going to be outnumbered most of the time if we're honest here. You need more self-sufficient units, not less.

Retreating makes you lose ground, I am not saying that it's viable leaving your squad there to fight to the last man but it's really a battle of wits on who's gonna retreat first most of the times, however you being an Axis player you will most often have to retreat first.

And finally, maybe you just got a vehicle out and can't babysit it so you just tell it where to go on the minimap and go do something else, what's your fault that Relic implemented bad pathfinding and made vehicles prefer to go on roads most of the time and not on a direct path (if possible and there is no obstruction) to a target?

Again, I don't see any suggestion on how to hold ground as OKW early game without a Tier 0 MG, the old system with the MG34 being doctrinal was much better as it allowed you to call in MGs much faster than now.
18 Feb 2017, 20:57 PM
#18
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871



Yeah, babysitting your paper Armor vehicle sounds like a great idea. Edit: this was sarcasm, of course you have no alternative choice but I think the UC's self repair would be a great addition to the kubel instead of forcing your Sturms to follow your Kubel or at least be very near by it in order to quickly repair it and get it back into the fight.


If its too much work, don't build it.

I mean your Sturms can be busy providing pressure elsewhere, or building, or laying mines, anything really, and you usually don't have another free Sturm squad in the early game in order to follow the kubel plus, you're going to be outnumbered most of the time if we're honest here. You need more self-sufficient units, not less.


I guess you were not very good at maths, since rifles cost 280mp per squad and volks cost 250mp, never mind having a higher reinforcement cost. If you are being outnumber vs US (or brits) as OKW then you are doing something wrong.

Retreating makes you lose ground, I am not saying that it's viable leaving your squad there to fight to the last man but it's really a battle of wits on who's gonna retreat first most of the times, however you being an Axis player you will most often have to retreat first.


If you place your squads poorly, then ofcourse you will to retreat first because the other person outplayed you. If you run a long range squad into point blank then you deserve to retreat first because you fucked up.

And finally, maybe you just got a vehicle out and can't babysit it so you just tell it where to go on the minimap and go do something else, what's your fault that Relic implemented bad pathfinding and made vehicles prefer to go on roads most of the time and not on a direct path (if possible and there is no obstruction) to a target?


RTS games are about controlling units and managing them. If that is too much for you then go play minecraft or something.

Again, I don't see any suggestion on how to hold ground as OKW early game without a Tier 0 MG, the old system with the MG34 being doctrinal was much better as it allowed you to call in MGs much faster than now.


I wasn't offering you any help, I was responding to the OP. If you are not able to hold map control, that is not the game or factions fault but yours. Maybe you are not good enough for 1v1's or maybe the opponent is better. Maybe you should go ask any of the top players on the OKW 1v1 leaderboard how they do it or even watch streams?

You can whine and cry all day that the game is too hard and you have to click too many buttons but you can either deal with it or gtfo. If you play in the most competitive game mode then that is just life.

If you prefer to can 1v1 me as US and I will play OKW. Because US is so OP and OKW so UP it should be simple right? Since its only balance affecting it and 0 to do with skill and knowledge of the game. I look forward to it....
18 Feb 2017, 21:35 PM
#19
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

Well at least I made my point with people telling me to fuck off because I'm not as pro as them, at least he's polite about it tho, gotta give him that.

Oh yeah and maths wiz, news flash but you will always be out-numbered by the Allies, remember, Quality vs Quantity and the nerf to OKW blobs meaning that you won't have more than 3 volks on the field most of the time and the risk of losing your volks is far greater than the USF player losing his rifles to you.

But you're also out-gunned here as well since the Allies have superior infantry to you and you will be considered as lucky even if you survive to see your first tank out.

Oh yeah and I'm sorry I'm not on your level of multi-tasking while having to call in a vehicle and dealing with a small assault on my flank while my vehicle follows the road and hits a mine, I am not HelpingHans or you for me to have super human multi-tasking capabilities.
18 Feb 2017, 21:44 PM
#20
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2017, 15:35 PMNubb3r

Early map control and flexibility are USF's strengths. Later on, Volks will outclass them with vet. The key is to get there. Also on long range Volks do win against Rifles very reliably. This is rather a map pool issue. The more cluttered the map, the more you need to be mindful and careful when facing Rifles.



Apart from the fact that volks don't win against Rifles at long range (not to mention if you throw Bars/1919s and STGs into the mix) volks dont have superior vet, apart from a few DPS improvements and passive healing, Rifles have much better received accuracy bonuses.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag N1cko
  • Oberkommando West flag Scotch1
  • Soviets flag Frosty
  • Soviets flag Beatricks Swire
uploaded by Frost

Board Info

260 users are online: 6 members and 254 guests
Mcq_knight, NorthFireZ, Katitof, Cresc, SunTzu, han252dn
154 posts in the last 24h
1207 posts in the last week
5195 posts in the last month
Registered members: 68724
Welcome our newest member, han252dn
Most online: 918 users on 27 Oct 2019, 01:03 AM