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Ideas for the Missing 6th faction

JB.
1 Apr 2017, 22:20 PM
#41
avatar of JB.

Posts: 45

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2017, 19:04 PMDelodax
Wow, what a massive write-up. Love the dedication on display!
Also sounded great making it more "anti-allies-artillery".
Hope it will become a reality one day!


Thanks man. Appreciate it.

Nah I don't think it would become a reality, maybe after DOW3 release but I doubt it. I just really enjoy brainstorming!
JB.
24 Apr 2017, 23:58 PM
#42
avatar of JB.

Posts: 45

Just editing and accidentally posted :P
25 Apr 2017, 12:30 PM
#43
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 401

I really don't relish the thought of yet another German faction. I'd love to see Japan, Italy, or an "Ostfront" faction which is a coalition of Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Even though they used a lot of German vehicles, it would still be unique enough to feel very different than German 3.0.
JB.
27 Apr 2017, 14:42 PM
#44
avatar of JB.

Posts: 45

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2017, 12:30 PMKothre
I really don't relish the thought of yet another German faction. I'd love to see Japan, Italy, or an "Ostfront" faction which is a coalition of Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Even though they used a lot of German vehicles, it would still be unique enough to feel very different than German 3.0.


Yeah but the beauty of this design is that it caters to all audiences.

-Fans of the original get their dose of nostalgia with the return of the PE.
-Competitive players are happy because it has no gaping design flaws like UKF.
-The 'we want new toys' people are happy because none of the vehicles are used by other factions, except the Panther which is unavoidable.
-The 'we want to see non German powers' people are happy because they get to see Italian, Hungarian, Finnish etc all in one faction without the whole faction looking like a random mess and actually slot into the core design in an intuitive way.
-Relic are happy because they can lock the most flashy content (ie the Non German axis commanders) behind DLC meaning more pay to win micro-transactions.

Literally everyone wins except the people who want Japan.

Oh and as a side note the Romanians can't be in the game anyway. By 1944, the year in which Coh2 is set, they were on the side of the Allies. Its one thing to have a little historical inaccuracy but its another to totally warp it to suit your game.
11 May 2017, 06:30 AM
#45
avatar of Cpt. Blitz

Posts: 55

I LOL'd at the OP.

Japan is not viable for "Obvious Reasons"

I don't get the hate that against this faction when it'd be SUPER unique and totally different style for the Axis.

Get it done Relic
11 May 2017, 07:33 AM
#46
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1067

I love this game a ton. New content would be fun but it's too much and not gonna happen. It's always fun to fantasize however ;)
11 May 2017, 07:48 AM
#47
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1935 | Subs: 2



Relic advertised the game as a WW2 platformer, and both the British and Italians did enough during the war to be included into the game.

They also advertised it as not P2W and a DCE that was actually worth a fuck :(
11 May 2017, 08:14 AM
#48
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

how about removing the brit cancer from the game
11 May 2017, 08:33 AM
#49
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1498 | Subs: 3


They also advertised it as not P2W and a DCE that was actually worth a fuck :(

And they advertised it around the Eastern Front. The promise is broken.
11 May 2017, 15:13 PM
#50
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2


They also advertised it as not P2W and a DCE that was actually worth a fuck :(


I am not sure about P2W but yes, I thought the Deluxe Edition that was 100 bucks was going to be a more more "exclusive" so to speak, and worth a shit as you said.

Sadly not the case, and I even made a complaint topic on their forums, to which they just replied that they never said that no other DLC commanders will be added to the game that were not part of the Collector's edition of the game.

So everybody that bought it, thinking they'd support the game, including me, were hard fucked, thinking we were their most loyal of fans that wanted to support them.

I was really disappointed that I was stuck with a lot of useless/obsolete commanders while somebody with 5 bucks could just buy one of the new DLC commanders and roflstomp me.


And they advertised it around the Eastern Front. The promise is broken.


That too, but I had a hunch something like this would happen, they could add so much to the Eastern Front.

But in all honesty I think something along the lines of the Eastern Front being representative of the early war, that is, the invasion of the USSR and Operation Barbarossa for 1941/1942 while having the Italian Front as 1943 to introduce the German-Italian and British Armies to the game and adding the USF and OKW in a final 1944/1945 expansion to the game like they did.

Instead we get Eastern Front Armies that span from the invasion of the USSR to almost the end of the war or whatever, at least 1943/1944 and then we get the USF and OKW in 1944 around the Battle of the Bulge, and then we get the crossing of the Rhine in 1945 with the British, just doesn't make sense to me.

I am of course not saying that my way is the best way to do it, I'm just suggesting a possible way on how to do things, which is of course a bit too late but eh.

Maybe another route to take was to start with Africa possibly, and introduce the Afrika Korps and Italian/Italian-German Army and the American and British Armies for the Allies, and THEN move to a later part of the Eastern Front or something like that, I honestly don't know.

But a 6th Army is missing, I'll just say that.
11 May 2017, 15:43 PM
#51
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1498 | Subs: 3



That too, but I had a hunch something like this would happen, they could add so much to the Eastern Front.

But in all honesty I think something along the lines of the Eastern Front being representative of the early war, that is, the invasion of the USSR and Operation Barbarossa for 1941/1942 while having the Italian Front as 1943 to introduce the German-Italian and British Armies to the game and adding the USF and OKW in a final 1944/1945 expansion to the game like they did.

Instead we get Eastern Front Armies that span from the invasion of the USSR to almost the end of the war or whatever, at least 1943/1944 and then we get the USF and OKW in 1944 around the Battle of the Bulge, and then we get the crossing of the Rhine in 1945 with the British, just doesn't make sense to me.

I am of course not saying that my way is the best way to do it, I'm just suggesting a possible way on how to do things, which is of course a bit too late but eh.

Maybe another route to take was to start with Africa possibly, and introduce the Afrika Korps and Italian/Italian-German Army and the American and British Armies for the Allies, and THEN move to a later part of the Eastern Front or something like that, I honestly don't know.

But a 6th Army is missing, I'll just say that.



Adding the US and OKW I understand - this is a financial move, Relic has experience in the US - remember the beta files: a video where the Americans fought on a snow map. But the British, without the third Axis faction - it's ridiculous. It was possible to add the Guards Army in Europe (the USSR still has many unauthorized units: Paratroopers, Marins, scouts, T-60, T-34-57 (43), improved T-34-85 (with sub caliber projectiles, mesh screens and smoke) , SU-100, ISU-122, BM-31-12) and the Defense Group of the Fatherland (Volkshturm, the Luftwaffe ground troops, Hetzer, a lot of captured weapons and guns, a desperate attempt to spoil the situation), the Soviets and the Germans would change roles: Now the Soviet units: small and experienced troops, Germans are large and inexperienced troops.
11 May 2017, 16:51 PM
#52
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

I want an entire faction made up of Kubelwagen units
12 May 2017, 01:41 AM
#53
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2690

I want an entire faction made up of Kubelwagen units

Lord imagine the spam on steppes XD
12 May 2017, 05:02 AM
#54
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 331 | Subs: 1

I LOL'd at the OP.

Japan is not viable for "Obvious Reasons"

I don't get the hate that against this faction when it'd be SUPER unique and totally different style for the Axis.

Get it done Relic


Japan:
+more axis light tanks
+6 man squads maybe
+an actual navy
+axis demos
+katanas


-katanas
-turtle strats
-CoH2 has no navy
-no unit preservation ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
-obsolete medium "armor"
-a complete lack of heavy armor


*players who believe in glorious Nippon steel might think otherwise

Japan lacks a lot of essential parts to be a proper CoH2 mainstay. It's main strength was its navy and airforce, while CoH is a land-based theater. It's anti-tank capability revolved around woefully unreliable methods compared to other factions, and its own armor is at best late 20's technology. Japan has nowhere enough manpower or industry to compete with any of the other factions. Politically, Japan never coordinated anything with Germany, either.

TL;DR: Japan is not for CoH2
#TeamAfrikaKorpsAndItaly
12 May 2017, 05:49 AM
#55
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


Lord imagine the spam on steppes XD


These are the most fond memories I have of the suppressing kubel. Spamming them to high heaven on steppes lol.
12 May 2017, 05:51 AM
#56
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2690



These are the most fond memories I have of the suppressing kubel. Spamming them to high heaven on steppes lol.

I can only imagine the allied rage...
12 May 2017, 08:15 AM
#57
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


I can only imagine the allied rage...


It was a love/hate relationship. I hated them when they were used against me and loved using them against others.
13 May 2017, 05:30 AM
#58
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 331 | Subs: 1

I think that the Panzer Elite role is already sort of filled by OKW. Just swap PanzerGrens with Sturmpios and you basically get the same thing: tough (enough) and versatile infantry that can also repair, while also having the heaviest armor in the game.

I like the idea of including Germany's smaller allies, although I think you are including too many of them. I feel like if there is a new faction, it should be focused on the allied invasion of Italy, which happens in late '43, and therefore fits well with the current timeline of the game. Italy and its remnants were by far the most cooperative and influential (not saying too much) of any of Germany's allies in WWII up until the end of the war. It could be like the Afrika Korps in composition, but it'll fit far better in the timeline.

The PzI is a no-go,(Pz1s were never used in after 1941 outside of training crews and towing guns), but why not use the equally obsolete Carro Armato L3/35 tankette? It'll basically do the same thing, anti-infantry light armor, except it's a casemate fixed-gun design and it doesn't come from Germany. On the subject of casemates, the faction could also have StuG equivalents with Semovente da 75/xx. Variety!

Mainline infantry could be members of the Royal Italian Army, which was actually pretty large, which could be non-doctrinal 6-man squads for Axis(!). Some call in ideas could be the rare Italian P40 "heavy" (was really a medium in armor/weapons/weight) tank, which in-game might be less effective but comes earlier than a PzIV. The Italians were also among the pioneers for paratroopers, so Paracadutisti could be a unique and fun unit.

Of course, the Germans would be lending some of their own troops as a helping hand, but at least it's not a 100% or even 80% German faction. Italy lacks medium armor, but the Germans can supplant this, since we're looking at a German/Italian split. It's also a great opportunity to throw in a few dearly-wanted units, such as some other SdKfz 234 variants, Pantherturm, or even the Bergetiger.
13 May 2017, 08:56 AM
#59
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1498 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2017, 05:02 AMKasarov


Japan:
+more axis light tanks
+6 man squads maybe
+an actual navy
+axis demos
+katanas


-katanas
-turtle strats
-CoH2 has no navy
-no unit preservation ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
-obsolete medium "armor"
-a complete lack of heavy armor


*players who believe in glorious Nippon steel might think otherwise


Japan lacks a lot of essential parts to be a proper CoH2 mainstay. It's main strength was its navy and airforce, while CoH is a land-based theater. It's anti-tank capability revolved around woefully unreliable methods compared to other factions, and its own armor is at best late 20's technology. Japan has nowhere enough manpower or industry to compete with any of the other factions. Politically, Japan never coordinated anything with Germany, either.

TL;DR: Japan is not for CoH2
#TeamAfrikaKorpsAndItaly


In general, I see no reason not to add the Japanese, the game is not 100% historic - game around Second World War:
- US troops were originally developed without heavy tanks
- The Japanese army has troops / tanks / anti-aircraft guns / support weapons and AT Rocket Launcher/ artillery and air support for the full faction without the help of another nation, plus one can add trophy equipment (captured Sherman, etc). Japan is the strongest version of the independent faction.
- Japan fought with all allies: the USA, Brits, the USSR and was part of the Axis
- We already have King Tiger and JagdTiger in Moscow map (1941) and the USSR in Normandy

The main problem is that Relic left the game, concentrated on the Dawn of War 3 and failed. I don't expect any new content for the game at all, we have only attempts of the community balance change.
JB.
13 May 2017, 11:52 AM
#60
avatar of JB.

Posts: 45

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2017, 05:30 AMKasarov
I think that the Panzer Elite role is already sort of filled by OKW. Just swap PanzerGrens with Sturmpios and you basically get the same thing: tough (enough) and versatile infantry that can also repair, while also having the heaviest armor in the game.


Nah not really. PE didn't really have a lot of heavy armour, relative to Wehr. As for sturm pios, I think you would be hard pressed to find a top tier player who uses them as mainline infantry. Not to mention they were designed differently as well, the PE supposed to be a purely mechanized army (an idea that doesn't translate to Coh game play too well) and a late war Axis army with a handful of elite units and mainly untrained infantry.

However, I do agree that a lot of PE ideas were robbed by OKW, like Luftwaffe ground forces, heavy emphasis on light vehicles etc. But that's just Relic running out of ideas and taking from what they know.

The PzI is a no-go,(Pz1s were never used in after 1941 outside of training crews and towing guns), but why not use the equally obsolete Carro Armato L3/35 tankette? It'll basically do the same thing, anti-infantry light armor, except it's a casemate fixed-gun design and it doesn't come from Germany. On the subject of casemates, the faction could also have StuG equivalents with Semovente da 75/xx. Variety!


Yeah but only 20 Pershings were used on the Western Front and seen minimal combat. Should the Pershing be taken out then? Relic left historical accuracy behind a long time ago. I still favour the P1 for solid gameplay and a variety of upgrades, deepening strategy. And the P2 is fine but the P1 is just way too far? I don't see how its a massive leap.

But you do have a point. There's nothing stopping you from putting Italian units in this design and renaming it the 'Africa Corps'. The Mortar, Flak, Sniper, Flamer, Pak, Marder, infantry officer and P1 can easily be replaced by Italian equivalents and I have considered it before.

The reason I decided against it though was because if you put the Italians in the main faction, you can't have Eastern Front Non German powers in the Doctrines. Italians and Hungarians in the same faction? Relic plays fast and loose with historical accuracy but they at least retain some continuity. If by trying to increase variety by having Italians in the main faction, you really are diminishing it. That's why I still believe this design is optimal for balance, variety, nostalgia and strategic diversity.

Having said this though, if Relic were to release an Italian faction I wouldn't be disappointed.
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