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Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.6 Update

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20 Jan 2017, 21:42 PM
#41
avatar of wouren
Senior Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 1277 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 21:34 PMaaa


Did you calculate prices to say about producing counters. What counters should be produced.
ZIS after T1? Obviously not an option, stated by Hector etc. Too much spendings on tiers and upgrades early game.
T70? 55-65 fuel to get after luchs is on the field. That much time is enough to base pin and close te game. If M3 then +15F additionaly.


Are you saying that the need to support a tier 1 pick with doctrine picks is a problem with the game?
20 Jan 2017, 21:45 PM
#42
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4315 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 19:52 PMFrost



What's the point of giving penals even more utility? Why no nerfs for accuracy at vet 3? Why do you keep to overshadowing cons here?


Cons are really good at vet 3. Right now if eqiped by ppsh, they can walk to vet3 grens with lmg (in green cover) and then tear them apart because of their high recieved accuraccy bonuses and also because they deal most damage at close, where cover is neutralised. All they have to do is avoid red cover while closing in
20 Jan 2017, 21:47 PM
#43
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 5544 | Subs: 2

Later version of WBP, I'd say is extremely unlikely. The Scope stepped in, and demanded a sacrifice in volume of changes to keep patch to a minimum.


I just had to do it

20 Jan 2017, 21:51 PM
#44
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 1851

So this will again be a long wait for a small set of changes. Relic never fails to deliver.

Seems my uninstall will remain.
20 Jan 2017, 21:52 PM
#45
avatar of wouren
Senior Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 1277 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 21:34 PMaaa


Did you calculate prices to say about producing counters. What counters should be produced.
ZIS after T1? Obviously not an option, stated by Hector etc. Too much spendings on tiers and upgrades early game.
T70? 55-65 fuel to get after luchs is on the field. That much time is enough to base pin and close te game. If M3 then +15F additionaly.

Guards doc every game is a problem since its easy to addapt to it. Best docs are out of the game.


The issue with balancing within a scope is that you can hardly fix anything; you can only push a problem somewhere else.

The balance team eventually needs to focus on balancing the early doctrinal AT abilities that become necessary with a t1 build.
20 Jan 2017, 22:14 PM
#46
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 188

It's disappointing to say the least. We wait 3 Months when finally see how the patch slowly gains shape and in the middle of this process relic just decides to cut the changes in half. There is no point in "future, sequential updates" if we have to wait another 5 months for the next small update.
20 Jan 2017, 22:25 PM
#47
avatar of Frost
Strategist Badge

Posts: 1009 | Subs: 1



Cons are really good at vet 3. Right now if eqiped by ppsh, they can walk to vet3 grens with lmg (in green cover) and then tear them apart because of their high recieved accuraccy bonuses and also because they deal most damage at close, where cover is neutralised. All they have to do is avoid red cover while closing in


Buddy, I really know the power of cons but penals seem to be better in every case right now - they have non doctrinal submachine guns and flamer. For cons I've to choose one of not really good doctrines. So what's the point of making cons when penals will do their job two times better and without locking in doctrine?
20 Jan 2017, 22:36 PM
#48
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4315 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 22:25 PMFrost


Buddy, I really know the power of cons but penals seem to be better in every case right now - they have non doctrinal submachine guns and flamer. For cons I've to choose one of not really good doctrines. So what's the point of making cons when penals will do their job two times better and without locking in doctrine?


Maybe only to support the maxims. Also they are cheaper come at 0 minute mark and have more utility
20 Jan 2017, 22:43 PM
#49
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2633 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 22:25 PMFrost


Buddy, I really know the power of cons but penals seem to be better in every case right now - they have non doctrinal submachine guns and flamer. For cons I've to choose one of not really good doctrines. So what's the point of making cons when penals will do their job two times better and without locking in doctrine?


Have a go with both, and tell us your opinion. Penals now cost 8 popcap compared to 6 popcap for conscripts. Also good luck closing in with Penal RA and no oorah.
20 Jan 2017, 23:07 PM
#50
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 953 | Subs: 1



The Penal demo charge, is, actually the same as the sticky AT satchel people have been seeing throughout WBP.


I'know, but i feel the sticky AT snachel is not as good as the good old sticky bomb. It's why i'm asking for the same functionality as the conscripts have.

Thanks for the reply.
20 Jan 2017, 23:13 PM
#51
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1



Have a go with both, and tell us your opinion. Penals now cost 8 popcap compared to 6 popcap for conscripts. Also good luck closing in with Penal RA and no oorah.


8 vs 6 pop cap aurgument is a joke, because cons perfomance is bad for a 6 pop cap squad and to be usefull they requare at least 1 fuel upgrade. So I can leave with having to "pay" 2 additinal pop-cap but have usefull squad on the field.

Main and single advantage why you "might" want to use cons - to not allow enemy to have early capping advantage. Thats it. There is not a single other advantage for cons over penals.

Not to mention that cons scaling is bad compare to ither 6-7 pop-cap inf and in long run you still want to slowly replace cons with guards\penals because they wouldnt have much chances late game against any upgraded inf.

Cons is a support squad for T2, and even with such role they are easily avoidable.
20 Jan 2017, 23:22 PM
#52
avatar of Frost
Strategist Badge

Posts: 1009 | Subs: 1



Have a go with both, and tell us your opinion. Penals now cost 8 popcap compared to 6 popcap for conscripts. Also good luck closing in with Penal RA and no oorah.


Ask Findeed how penals get easly closer to germans position. Especially for westheer one (volks with their StG's). Anyway, could you explain why double StG's taking all weapon slots? Is this a bug or part of balance? What about getting flamethrower and sweepers and vickers at the same time by royal engineers? And still fauts hitting ground or even infantry models fyi (and killing them)
20 Jan 2017, 23:27 PM
#53
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1552 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 23:22 PMFrost


Ask Findeed how penals get easly closer to germans position. Especially for westheer one (volks with their StG's). Anyway, could you explain why double StG's taking all weapon slots? Is this a bug or part of balance? What about getting flamethrower and sweepers and vickers at the same time by royal engineers? And still fauts hitting ground or even infantry models fyi (and killing them)

Power creep. Gotta sell DLC to have food on the table.
20 Jan 2017, 23:33 PM
#54
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2633 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 23:22 PMFrost


Ask Findeed how penals get easly closer to germans position. Especially for westheer one (volks with their StG's). Anyway, could you explain why double StG's taking all weapon slots? Is this a bug or part of balance? What about getting flamethrower and sweepers and vickers at the same time by royal engineers? And still fauts hitting ground or even infantry models fyi (and killing them)


All of what you've mentioned is out of scope. The stgs, the sweepers, sapper upgrades.

20 Jan 2017, 23:39 PM
#55
avatar of Frost
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Posts: 1009 | Subs: 1



All of what you've mentioned is out of scope. The stgs, the sweepers, sapper upgrades.




But it can be counted as bugs
20 Jan 2017, 23:49 PM
#56
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2633 | Subs: 17

WTF is going on? I didn't wait this long for a small patch. This is seriously becoming a joke.


I know it looks shitty. All 3 of us were severely bummed out for a few days when Kyle relayed the bad news, and our motivation wavered for a few days. In the end, however, if you look at the reverted changes they don't really affect the spirit of the solution that this patch is going to give.

The changes that were reverted were mostly about ultra-light vehicles. Sure, those things needed a bit of love. However, due to light-tank changes all light vehicles are in a better place than before. Hopefully with a future update we will be able to reintroduce the things that we've already tested and work.

It's fine that a small cluster of changes makes it into a single patch. The bigger question, however, is when the next patch will hit, and how often there will be patches after that.

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 23:39 PMFrost



But it can be counted as bugs


Every glaring imbalance we've found, we've also tried to explain it in terms of inconsistencies. I mean, airlanding officer charge bonuses HAVE to be a bug right?

The WBP has already reached peak scope, unfortunately, and no further inconsistencies will be considered by Relic :(
21 Jan 2017, 00:20 AM
#57
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Social Media Manager Badge
Patrion 26

Posts: 237

I'm really amazed they've gone from tweaking penals having PTRS rifles over the last few version of the mod, to then just remove them entirely.
Is that purely because they make Guards mostly redundant? If so that's a really awful reason to remove them entirely.
I was finally able to open up my SU commander choices, rather than having to stick to certain commanders.

I really hope Relic decide to add them again. They were by far the best part of the mod, and would be a huge improvement to SU play in general and commander selections for SU players.
21 Jan 2017, 00:54 AM
#58
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 1294

Will the final live version of WBP in march liberate us from infiltration squad cheese? :*( :guyokay:
21 Jan 2017, 01:17 AM
#59
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2707 | Subs: 1



I know it looks shitty. All 3 of us were severely bummed out for a few days when Kyle relayed the bad news, and our motivation wavered for a few days. In the end, however, if you look at the reverted changes they don't really affect the spirit of the solution that this patch is going to give.


That sucks. 50% :( 50% :S


The WBP has already reached peak scope, unfortunately, and no further inconsistencies will be considered by Relic :(


That's a real bummer.
Is v1.6 a final version, or adjustments will only be made to whats left in v1.6?
21 Jan 2017, 01:21 AM
#60
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2633 | Subs: 17



That sucks. 50% :( 50% :S



That's a real bummer.
Is v1.6 a final version, or adjustments will only be made to whats left in v1.6?


If something has not been touched up to so far (e.g., units/abilities/etc), it will not be touched. If something has been touched, it can/may be readjusted.
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