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How is this fair? [picture]

10 Jan 2017, 14:20 PM
#1
avatar of kanelbullen

Posts: 18

So i was playing with my friend and we were struggling against the axis mg spam, all our attempts to counter it were futile (flamers, flanking.) Nothing worked. So i got this idea that hey, ill just build a flak cannon so it can shoot the mgs! Surely it has to work. NOPE! Because it's totally not stupid at all that a german mg outranges a flak cannon, designed to shoot down airplanes FROM THE SKY. I just watched dumbfounden how the german mg slowly killed my flak and it could do nothing. I should have built an mortarpit if the enemy didn't have so much infantry.

Picture here: (Mod Edit: making it more visible, next time use direct link)

Just stupid, so stupid.

I REALLY want to like this game,my almost 140hr proves it. Everything about it is excellent except this poor balance! Im sure the devs will lock this thread soon because apparently on these forums criticizing the balance is forbidden, you just have to shut your eyes and ears and pretend theres no problem. Literally everything on the axis side is better. Everything. Better upgrades, better late game units, you get more units in the start.

Everytime we play it feels like we either win because our enemy was total idiots or we lose because they had even a little knowledge about the game. Worst balance in a game i've seen.

I'm sure the devs will lock my thread now since i criticized the game, but you know i'm right.
10 Jan 2017, 14:30 PM
#2
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885


Everytime we play it feels like we either win because our enemy was total idiots or we lose because they had even a little knowledge about the game.


You must be somewhere in between "total idiots" and "little knowledge about the game" then :P

You are seriously the first player ever to struggle against mg bunkers. The one and only reason to build them is when you are pop capped.

Also, AEC would be much better counter than bofors to kill the mgs, but even when you already build a bofors, it has a ranged attack that can kill the bunker easily. No way you will loose in that fight.

I'm dropping your screen here becouse it didnt show up and I find it hilarous

10 Jan 2017, 14:35 PM
#3
avatar of CasTroy

Posts: 559

I'm sure the devs will lock my thread now since i criticized the game, but you know i'm right.


Did you ever read the post of SOE Sturmpanther in your thread Noob Question: How to counter early axis mg spam?

Otherwise this thread will be closed because you´re just raging and this has absolutely nothing to do with balance.

10 Jan 2017, 14:46 PM
#4
avatar of ISuckAtVideoGames

Posts: 42

So i was playing with my friend and we were struggling against the axis mg spam, all our attempts to counter it were futile (flamers, flanking.)



Yes, maxims MG is still a bit over the to-- Oh my.


Everything about it is excellent except this poor balance!


I agree, balance could be improved, but assure you, you wouldn't like the outcome :^)


Literally everything on the axis side is better. Everything. Better upgrades, better late game units,


This is not true, especially when You compare UKF to Axis.

you get more units in the start.


And this is a blatant lie, all factions start with a single unit.

Dont get me wrong, but with 140h of playtime you are just starting to learn the ropes of CoH2 MP. Watch some replays, ask for help some more experienced players here, provide a replay.



10 Jan 2017, 14:55 PM
#6
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

I'm trying to move this to strategy desk, it does not belong in balance.

Will be moving this when I figure out what I'm getting wrong.
10 Jan 2017, 16:07 PM
#7
avatar of 5trategos

Posts: 449

Aside from the op's thought process and expectations being utterly wrong, this does highlight how un-intuitive the game can be to newcomers.

A single AT gun and a spotter would have been enough. But yeah, the thing that looks like a static at gun isn't going to cut it. The Bofors is 360 degree bunker that can also take out light vehicles. Use it to fortify your territory.
10 Jan 2017, 17:35 PM
#8
avatar of Wygrif

Posts: 278

This game can be very counter-intuitive.

The cheapest mg bunker counters are flamed-up UC or an AT gun (use attack ground or spot with an observation package tommy or a sniper.) The easiest is an AEC.

MG bunkers can be quite a pain, but once you get accustomed to the rhythm of attack you'll be fine. Mind that you don't get baited into an mine or AT gun (if you're using a UC or an AEC) or that you're prepared for the infantry counter attack (if AT gun).
10 Jan 2017, 18:01 PM
#9
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10627 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2017, 14:55 PMSwift
I'm trying to move this to strategy desk, it does not belong in balance.

Will be moving this when I figure out what I'm getting wrong.


It's bugged, I think. ;)
10 Jan 2017, 18:23 PM
#10
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

kanelbullen

I can try to address your two problems here, but be aware your post is not well thought out, you are raging after losing to a cheesy strat. This is a L2P issue not a game issue.

1) Expectation vs. Reality
You expected the boffors to have the range of the MG bunker. However, in a game, key point here, the unit is balanced to be counterable. Guns do not have realistic ranges or damage as a result, so don't expect a bigger gun to automatically shoot further. If you think guns should have ranges reprsentative of their real life power Tigers would be able to one shot tanks before entering the map, and realistically tank battles would be fought from 500-1000m, often more. MGs would destroy whole squads that were out of cover in the first burst, and mortars could easily shoot base to base.

2) Balance
At lower levels of skill the Wehr feel extremely potent because their structure is less open to flexibility in teching, and it covers all bases with at least something. OKW is not as inflexible but its units, if they survive become truly powerful with 5 levels of vet in most cases. Your problem here is hard to diagnose as you simply showed a screen shot. If you upload the game we can give more advice. The fact that you were able to build a bofors under fire from an MG bunker (because it would have been in range while you were building and firing since it gives itself LoS), but did not lose it or stop building is characteristic of these lower tier games.

I want to be clear that I am not making fun of you are saying you are a lesser person for being new to the game. I am merely stating the fact that this game you played was not a skillful match, and we can help you work on your skills to improve that if you want.

MG bunker spam against good players is no more than a chore to deal with, not an actual viable strategy. If you would like to learn more about how to deal with it watch some streamers and see how they play. Helpinghans is a good player as he is quite good and you will see how nearly impossible it is to build up a bunker spam against a player like him. He will also regularly run into bunkers and have to deal with them, and will, with a variety of stats.
10 Jan 2017, 20:14 PM
#12
avatar of Ramps

Posts: 99

In that picture I don't see any observer from your side, I guess they needed observers to shoot planes down Kappa. Second, mg bunkers have more LOS than you, what you need to do, is attack ground their bunker, just did it in the mod tool of relic, highly recommend you download this, it will decimate that bunker in a blink of an eye. So my recommendation is: If you see bunker always scout, is an rts after all, you need oberservers for your team weapons, etc.
10 Jan 2017, 22:07 PM
#13
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

MAYBE A MOBILE MORTAR INSTEAD OF THAT BIG ASS 400 MAN POWER MORTAR PIT WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT FOR THIS SITUATION...
11 Jan 2017, 00:04 AM
#14
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 24

This is the opposite of a balance issue. If the bofors had any more range it would be too good.
Vaz
11 Jan 2017, 01:04 AM
#15
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1138

Range in coh is adjusted for game. Many things do not shoot at anything near real range. Even a sherman could shoot a powerful round across the entire map. In real life, it takes days sometimes just to get to the battlefield. So a lot of stuff is made up here. Also, range is longer for air targets because of the angle.

Next time try a sniper.
11 Jan 2017, 02:17 AM
#17
avatar of Kamzil118

Posts: 455

I decided to take a closer look at the picture. I suggest you take some advice from a 4v4 player.

MG bunkers have more range than a HMG squad that is a fact. So there is a possibility of your Bofors getting damaged while it was under construction.

The most sensible thing that you could have done was garrison a unit inside of the Bofors and use its special ability to use indirect fire on the bunker. However, there is another issue I noticed, you didn't use the Brace mechanic to "block" the damage while you use your anti-tank gun to destroy it.

That's my take on the issue you brought to us. No need to get angry over it. Next time you get stumped over something like this, start asking questions from the strategy sections. The strategists will help you.
11 Jan 2017, 03:06 AM
#18
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

no mang he pro. dont you dare tell him to ask strategists.

lmao i just got home, took a shower and napped on my bed because of my bad sleep last night. But I had homework I needed to take care of. Almost bedtime now RIP ME
11 Jan 2017, 03:14 AM
#19
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

ok now for some real advice. if you have trouble taking out an mg bunker, just get a mortar or at gun and take care of it while at the same time flanking it to make sure it doesnt get repaired.

Also you seem to have a flawed understanding of flanking so you might need to ask for some help from here.
11 Jan 2017, 22:36 PM
#20
avatar of zakattack04

Posts: 37

Everything for Axis is better? Because you know, A 6 man penal squad or a 5 man rifle squad is worse than the 4 man grenadier with bolt rifles.

It's pretty much universally agreed that Ostheer is underperforming, not UKF.

In response to your complaining: MG spam is very annoying but it isn't OP. Your first mistake was going Bofors instead of a AEC.
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