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russian armor

Would like to get some feedback on my mistakes

4 Jan 2017, 18:19 PM
#1
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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So here we are, just chilling and playing some 1 and then
i get jove as my opponent :o .
I think i played a decent match, all though i know Jove didnt do all the normall stuff. Had a pretty good early game. Then i fucked up with one of my scout cars, i should have gone in with both and i didnt look my p4 for 10 seconds and it was almost dead when i came back at it :/ . If you want to see me playing that game live, have a look over here and go to min 01:34:00. So i know my mistakes of the 222 and p4, but what could i have done more?

Thx for the feedback already :)
4 Jan 2017, 18:21 PM
#2
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Will do it :)
4 Jan 2017, 18:25 PM
#3
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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4 Jan 2017, 22:46 PM
#4
avatar of __deleted__

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Will look as well
4 Jan 2017, 22:59 PM
#5
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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Will look as well

appppppreeeeciated
4 Jan 2017, 23:15 PM
#6
avatar of Sturmpanther
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So, about your first 222 and pIV you talked allready :)

I'm not sure if Jove trolled you or not :)
Because until min 4.10 he had only 2 Rifles and 1 Etap

A) Min 5.17 you are decapping him, and then you run away to the muni house. Better stay up to the cutoff in green cover.

B) Your 2 x 222 tech not sure about that. Its risky play. Tellermine+ pak is saver i guess. It was clear, that Flakhft will probably come. You saw his Lieutnant.

C) Use wire and mines if you can.

D) Min 12, i would try to get first south Vp save and then attack middle, where enemie had green cover and you 0.

E) Take care of your manpower! 52/105 as Ost vs USA is not good. He had no early mortar or something like that. Means you should win the Manpower trade. Also he dealed more damage then you. Normally it should be that axis deals more damage ( paks vs allies tanks)

F) I prefer to get Stugs and Tiger out and not teching t3 tbh. You had not that advantage in this game to snowball.

G) Your mg was often alone. Bad idea, when you want to move with it. You see it in the replay, that you get ez flanked then.

All in all I had the feeling you had no plan, what you want to do this game. Your grens were running alone, mg also. Then 222 and then your late PIV.

Try to stay more together. Especially as Axis :)

And yes you had the worser side for axis :)
4 Jan 2017, 23:31 PM
#7
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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So, about your first 222 and pIV you talked allready :)

I'm not sure if Jove trolled you or not :)
Because until min 4.10 he had only 2 Rifles and 1 Etap

A) Min 5.17 you are decapping him, and then you run away to the muni house. Better stay up to the cutoff in green cover.

B) Your 2 x 222 tech not sure about that. Its risky play. Tellermine+ pak is saver i guess. It was clear, that Flakhft will probably come. You saw his Lieutnant.

C) Use wire and mines if you can.

D) Min 12, i would try to get first south Vp save and then attack middle, where enemie had green cover and you 0.

E) Take care of your manpower! 52/105 as Ost vs USA is not good. He had no early mortar or something like that. Means you should win the Manpower trade. Also he dealed more damage then you. Normally it should be that axis deals more damage ( paks vs allies tanks)

F) I prefer to get Stugs and Tiger out and not teching t3 tbh. You had not that advantage in this game to snowball.

G) Your mg was often alone. Bad idea, when you want to move with it. You see it in the replay, that you get ez flanked then.

All in all I had the feeling you had no plan, what you want to do this game. Your grens were running alone, mg also. Then 222 and then your late PIV.

Try to stay more together. Especially as Axis :)

And yes you had the worser side for axis :)

Thx, but i thought 2x222 is good agaist aa?
4 Jan 2017, 23:33 PM
#8
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Thx, but i thought 2x222 is good agaist aa?


If you play both together and flank it yes. You need to get behind him, so he can't shoot you down. As you saw with your first 222, it dies to 1 salve.
5 Jan 2017, 07:25 AM
#9
avatar of Nashka

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that moment when u spelled to jove, and he didnt understand a single word :D
5 Jan 2017, 09:40 AM
#10
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2017, 07:25 AMNashka
that moment when u spelled to jove, and he didnt understand a single word :D

He understood that i said hello ^^
5 Jan 2017, 09:42 AM
#11
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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If you play both together and flank it yes. You need to get behind him, so he can't shoot you down. As you saw with your first 222, it dies to 1 salve.

Good one ill keep that in mind. And another question, against which faction its better to go 2x222 and the other pak + mine -> fast p4/stug e
5 Jan 2017, 10:43 AM
#12
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Good one ill keep that in mind. And another question, against which faction its better to go 2x222 and the other pak + mine -> fast p4/stug e


Dude, thats not easy to say.

It depends which tactic the enemie plays + how much fuel income both players have / had.

For you know to from timing: AEC = Flamerhft< Stuart < t70

For me personal I would almsot never go 2X 222. Its too risky imo. A good 222 / flamerhft can work vs soviets / usa.

Because the theory that you get his light vehicle alone with your 222 will be not the praxis most of the time. And don't forget like: Guarde, At-from cons/ rifle man or a mine can rip you, if you play too agressiv. Means the first 222 dies vs the the light vehicle, your 2nd want to finish it, it drives back and get a backline so you can't finish it. He reparis his vehicle and then he will kill your 2nd one as well.


Ofc 2 X 222 is/ can work, but for you Hooligan ( I know how you play kind of as mentor^^) i would go for save play with pak and mine. And For Example 1 x 222 to bait him into your mine / pak

5 Jan 2017, 10:52 AM
#13
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Good one ill keep that in mind. And another question, against which faction its better to go 2x222 and the other pak + mine -> fast p4/stug e


It really depends mostly on situation. If you did well super early game and you know you will get 444 and pak before his light tank, its always good idea to do so, because 444 can kill even stuart if he gets 1-2 pak shots and/or faust. Just keep an eye for zooks/rifles so you don´t get killed before you kill him.


Against UKF its always good idea. For only 30 fuel you can zone him out. Also 444 defeats AC if there´s not pounder nearby (or you hit mine).


Against soviet tier1 it´s much go as well, so you can punish him for his penal/m3 play (if you see guards, you can flank them and deal tremderous damage to them if they are in cover).

Against maxim spam its good idea as well, just keep an eye for occasional conscript, mines and zis.


I don´t recommend it against con spam because of snare. Pgrens are much better hardcounter to cons (he stay at long, mg and grens wipe them, he come, Pgrens beat their ass).

444 Also counters t70 if both are full health (444 and t70) and there is no source of russian AT nearby.

Against USA its good to get 444 if you feel for it. If you did well early on and you´re able to get it before his light tank, then do so. It can deal lot of damage and give you some room to breathe. Just don´t forget to get pak afterwards.

Against liehtenaunt I recommend it only against m20, so its better to wait if he went m20 and if yes, get 444 to hardcounter him. If he isn´t getting m20, get pak because pak 2shots murican quad. 444 isn´t really good against quad, only if you manage to flank it and attack from behind. Litlle bit risky, pak is safer.


Will give advice on replay later ;)



PS: After all it comes to personal preference and how you can utilise your 444. I for example always go 444 :D



5 Jan 2017, 11:19 AM
#14
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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.


Thx for your feedback as well :D


.


I gues it just really depends on the game. If you are behind, never go 444, just play it save and try to fight yourself back slowly. If you are ahead and there is probably an aa coming bcs your opponent went lt and you didnt build a sniper you should make pak and tech for fast p4/stug e. And yes, i like to go 444 as well. Bcs it gives you some anti infantry and with a faust your 444 will kill every light vehicle if you dive at the same time and micro ok. All though there is always a risk you end up losing your 444 and his light vehicle survives. But at that moment i could go for the tactic i explain below,maybe?

Maybe for me it's also a good idea to go mobile defensive if i get in a situation like i did with jove. I could have gone for a second pak and call in panzer 4 command. Would have been good against his infantry and my paks would rek his jackson and aa, if i micro them well. I also would be able to call in puma if i want to dive (he has no mines bcs he went airborne) and i could have teched up for panther. I might try something like that next time.

I think 1 pak + 1 scout car is better when you go sniper. But maybe thats just my feeling, bcs then you will have some anti infantry when ur opponents dives with infantry for your sniper and you will have pak + faust + 222 if your opponents dives for sniper with light vehicle.

Thoughts on these ideas? ^^


5 Jan 2017, 11:43 AM
#15
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Well i just can say it again :)

It depends on your game style + how the game is going on.

So nobody can say: Go allways 444 or never. Both is not true :)

Thats the good thing in coh2, every game CAN be an other gamestyle.
5 Jan 2017, 11:58 AM
#16
avatar of __deleted__

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I think sturmpanzer summed it up pretty well (agree with him in everything, not going to write it here again), here are some of other thoughts.

Choose commader sooner. You should have used stugs e with tiger if you wanted to go that way.
Also prostruppens and sniper into 444 and pak into fast oswind (your fuel is easily overwatchable with 1 hmg and 444 and you can allow to spend 200MP for 50 fuel because you are bleeding him with sniper and ostruppens are dirty cheap). Fast oswind backed up with 2 paks is deadly against USA because it will always come faster than sherman if you execute your play well.

Squadwipes. You lost many squads mainly because you didn´t have plan and haven´t pushed together AND you didn´t take into account kholodny RETARDED retreat patch. If you are near strategic point that is between south VP and his house they you won´t run throught your munnition but throught enemy mid VP, often resulting squadwipe. Keep that in mind.

Your 222 and p4 play was horrible. We all can admit this. Your 222 danced in front of quad, I didn´t knon what you was planning here. Once you saw quad, retreat with it, wait til he extends and then attack with 2x222 from flank. He wouldn´t have dived to kill your 222 fearing either gren/pak combo or teller.

Also p4 died too early. Jackson is squishy as hell, once your pak was vet 1 you could have stunned it, land second AT gun shot and kill it with p4. You don´t have to dive once you get tank, slowly bleed him and wait for his mistake.


And here I have something you may like - early game thoughts with pictures:

Cut off

It´s useless to make cover near your cut off because cover only exist up to 10 range then is negated. So you only use cover when you already have squad there, not when you advance (you won´t have squad near your cut off when he attacks it and once he is near that cover, it serve no function except giving him advantage). Thats why I recommned you not to building cover there, but wiring green cover nearby so he will have harder time holding your cut off. If you hovewer want too much greeno cover there, build it behind that cart, so enemy still have yellow cover and you enjoy green cover while you are definding cut off against attacks from your fuel.




Munnition point cover

I suggest moving cover more to right, so enemy cannot use it. As you can see right now, enemy can position his squads into your cover. If you place cover there, he won´t be able to use it (because once he see your squad approaching, it will already be range <10 and so cover serves no function, meaning he is not in green cover, but in red cover). If enemy dashes to your cover, you will still enjoy no cover, while he will be having red cover (because at 10 range or lower cover is negated [except house cover]).




Mid VP play

Here you should have rushed enemy house with grens and give him pain, while he try to grab it back (USA lack flamer) while second squad should have capped VP, wired tank as I painted there and maybe help with defending house



Early game MG play

You already supressed that riflemen earier and had pios nearby. Instaed of capping strategic point, you should have closed with pios to rifles (as long someone is firing at squad, its unlikely he will lose supression status) forced him to retreat, then capped VP with pios and strategic point with MG. This would have saved mg health




Countering church garrisons

Kholodny church have only 1 window on that side, and also only 1 window on other side. Thats why I think you have to go into green cover and then right with church garrison because then only 1 man will be firing at you. If you however fire from house, you have only 1 window, and he is firing at you from all right windows there (cca 4-5 windows).

Also wire green cover on other side of church so he cannot do the same to you and will have to find other way to flush you out.




Strategic point I talked about

Here you can see retreat path I already talked about. Once again bad sandbad placement. As you can see, there are green dots on other side, meaning enemy can use it as well. I recommend you moving it to position I draw there, so only 2 members can enjoy green cover then. Also wire that small retreat path as I draw there




Thats all. Hope this helps you
5 Jan 2017, 17:58 PM
#17
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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I think sturmpanzer summed it up pretty well (agree with him in everything, not going to write it here again), here are some of other thoughts.

Choose commader sooner. You should have used stugs e with tiger if you wanted to go that way.
Also prostruppens and sniper into 444 and pak into fast oswind (your fuel is easily overwatchable with 1 hmg and 444 and you can allow to spend 200MP for 50 fuel because you are bleeding him with sniper and ostruppens are dirty cheap). Fast oswind backed up with 2 paks is deadly against USA because it will always come faster than sherman if you execute your play well.

Squadwipes. You lost many squads mainly because you didn´t have plan and haven´t pushed together AND you didn´t take into account kholodny RETARDED retreat patch. If you are near strategic point that is between south VP and his house they you won´t run throught your munnition but throught enemy mid VP, often resulting squadwipe. Keep that in mind.

Your 222 and p4 play was horrible. We all can admit this. Your 222 danced in front of quad, I didn´t knon what you was planning here. Once you saw quad, retreat with it, wait til he extends and then attack with 2x222 from flank. He wouldn´t have dived to kill your 222 fearing either gren/pak combo or teller.

Also p4 died too early. Jackson is squishy as hell, once your pak was vet 1 you could have stunned it, land second AT gun shot and kill it with p4. You don´t have to dive once you get tank, slowly bleed him and wait for his mistake.


And here I have something you may like - early game thoughts with pictures:

Cut off

It´s useless to make cover near your cut off because cover only exist up to 10 range then is negated. So you only use cover when you already have squad there, not when you advance (you won´t have squad near your cut off when he attacks it and once he is near that cover, it serve no function except giving him advantage). Thats why I recommned you not to building cover there, but wiring green cover nearby so he will have harder time holding your cut off. If you hovewer want too much greeno cover there, build it behind that cart, so enemy still have yellow cover and you enjoy green cover while you are definding cut off against attacks from your fuel.




Munnition point cover

I suggest moving cover more to right, so enemy cannot use it. As you can see right now, enemy can position his squads into your cover. If you place cover there, he won´t be able to use it (because once he see your squad approaching, it will already be range <10 and so cover serves no function, meaning he is not in green cover, but in red cover). If enemy dashes to your cover, you will still enjoy no cover, while he will be having red cover (because at 10 range or lower cover is negated [except house cover]).




Mid VP play

Here you should have rushed enemy house with grens and give him pain, while he try to grab it back (USA lack flamer) while second squad should have capped VP, wired tank as I painted there and maybe help with defending house



Early game MG play

You already supressed that riflemen earier and had pios nearby. Instaed of capping strategic point, you should have closed with pios to rifles (as long someone is firing at squad, its unlikely he will lose supression status) forced him to retreat, then capped VP with pios and strategic point with MG. This would have saved mg health




Countering church garrisons

Kholodny church have only 1 window on that side, and also only 1 window on other side. Thats why I think you have to go into green cover and then right with church garrison because then only 1 man will be firing at you. If you however fire from house, you have only 1 window, and he is firing at you from all right windows there (cca 4-5 windows).

Also wire green cover on other side of church so he cannot do the same to you and will have to find other way to flush you out.




Strategic point I talked about

Here you can see retreat path I already talked about. Once again bad sandbad placement. As you can see, there are green dots on other side, meaning enemy can use it as well. I recommend you moving it to position I draw there, so only 2 members can enjoy green cover then. Also wire that small retreat path as I draw there




Thats all. Hope this helps you

I recognise a lot of your feedback, especially about the wiring and i sometimes do that... good recommendations about the sand bags as well. Can you give some more explanation about the <10 cover? Bcs i dont fully understand ^^

Thx a lot for this though :D
5 Jan 2017, 18:08 PM
#18
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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Well i just can say it again :)

It depends on your game style + how the game is going on.

So nobody can say: Go allways 444 or never. Both is not true :)

Thats the good thing in coh2, every game CAN be an other gamestyle.

Yeah you are right about that, thats what makes coh2 fun :D
5 Jan 2017, 18:15 PM
#19
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4315 | Subs: 7


I recognise a lot of your feedback, especially about the wiring and i sometimes do that... good recommendations about the sand bags as well. Can you give some more explanation about the <10 cover? Bcs i dont fully understand ^^

Thx a lot for this though :D


As far as I remember from some cruzzi or other cruzzi like posts, most cover is directional (except craters) and only effective til range 10 (molotov minimal throwing range is 5 and max is 15 I think, so you can count it at least to some degree) and then is negated. Simply under 10 range even if you are standing in cover, it does not count and is used normal ground cover (red/none/yellow, depending on surface).

Housing always provide cover

Green cover halts damage from explosives by 50%

Troops in yellow cover are 1.25x harder to hit and troops in green cover are 1.5x harder to hit. I think red cover is 0.75x harder to hit, but im not sure. House is green cover. Troops firing in house are equal or lesser (if you have lesser memembers than windows on that side for example)to windows. Also tank crushing some part of house wall can create another hole, whitch counts like window.
5 Jan 2017, 18:39 PM
#20
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
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As far as I remember from some cruzzi or other cruzzi like posts, most cover is directional (except craters) and only effective til range 10 (molotov minimal throwing range is 5 and max is 15 I think, so you can count it at least to some degree) and then is negated. Simply under 10 range even if you are standing in cover, it does not count and is used normal ground cover (red/none/yellow, depending on surface).

Housing always provide cover

Green cover halts damage from explosives by 50%

Troops in yellow cover are 1.25x harder to hit and troops in green cover are 1.5x harder to hit. I think red cover is 0.75x harder to hit, but im not sure. House is green cover. Troops firing in house are equal or lesser (if you have lesser memembers than windows on that side for example)to windows. Also tank crushing some part of house wall can create another hole, whitch counts like window.

so whenever a squad is closer then 2 times molotov range to your squad, cover doenst count anymore? I didnt knew that lol, good to know though ^^
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