russian armor

Winter Balance Patch: Wrong Direction?

Is relic going down the right path with these changes?
Option Distribution Votes
Total votes: 119
25 Nov 2016, 21:56 PM
avatar of SolidSteel

Posts: 74

This is my overall impression of the changes that are being tested in the preveiw mod.

222 Scope Stacking:
It was a unintended usage of the scope, and I find it logical that they're removing it.

What I dont like: They're going after all the crutches and powerspikes in the german army and outright removing them, while they're not adding anything worthy of use, much less something that can give the factions' core strength.

Im willing to bet that those "spacing fixes" wont do shit/work as intended to address the weakness of the fragile grens, while nerfing even more the very few strongpoints left of ostheer.

While I agree that the stuart was too accesible and overall strong tank vs everything, i think they're just making it useless vs infantry while also heavily nerfing its flank potential on the stun rounds. Will it be of any use anymore?

Not that much of a nerf vs infantry, just prevent RNG snipes from the main gun, but it actually suffers when engaging other vehicles and the stun shot its pretty useless ATM.

Meds on Sturmpios:
Its not sustainable, way too expensive, impractical and it just pales in comparison to allied heal mechanics like 2tonbulance and sectionheal. It will not make t3 play more attractive, specially coupled with P2 gratuituous nerfs.

I stand by this, you cant sustain your troops without medichq, it just imposes a heavy micro+muni bleed to manually and individually heal all your soldiers.

I do felt them to be overperforming in pure brawls of infantry, but still they're being hit way too hard for what they are, only engis can flamer now early midgame on USSR.

They are toned down, not as much as I thought they would be, but it invalidates flamer clowcars into satchels, weakening USSR antigarrison play.

It's still way too expensive for its shock value, now bleeds you for munitions if you want it to survive any AT fire and will it be nullified by any AT screen completely, becoming totally obsolete 10 mins into the game.

Its antigarrison buff its practically unnoticeable, any zooked infantry will still kill you from garrison if in range. Deploy time still awful preventing any flexible play from it, while the "deploy on the move bug is still there".

Will edit and add feedback as I test the mod further.

25 Nov 2016, 22:06 PM
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Stuarts will be fine. -25% less damage against infantry (and a bit of MG nerfs) will prevent the insane pressure of roaming around causing squad wipes rather than prevent it from killing infantry at all.
25 Nov 2016, 22:12 PM
avatar of Antilles950
Donator 22

Posts: 168

The only patch problems are that Pumas were over-nerfed and that med kits are still in place.
25 Nov 2016, 22:33 PM
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

i suggest you to try more the mod because everything you said is unfunded.
25 Nov 2016, 23:13 PM
avatar of A big guy 4u

Posts: 168

RIP soviet infantry
25 Nov 2016, 23:52 PM
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I'll take the bad along with the good any day.

It's the preview patch, so it's not final. The best that can be done is to analyze the changes ingame and report with integrity.

25 Nov 2016, 23:56 PM
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

In my opinion:
T-70, Stuart, StugE fixed, OKW buffed, ostheer nerfed (due to sniper camo), soviets nerfed, USF unchanged much

Kinda hoped for better and bigger patch
26 Nov 2016, 00:39 AM
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

well, stuart - mortar - double lmg blob - m20 has been nerfed.
you can't say 'unchanged much'.

quite surprised also by the sniper camo nerf, since last patch sniper are easy to kill with some micro & flank, it makes them more an expensive spoting unit that something else IN MY OPINION.

i can be wrong
26 Nov 2016, 00:42 AM
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

The mod isn't even up for 24 hours lol
26 Nov 2016, 01:36 AM
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1454 | Subs: 4

In my opinion:
T-70, Stuart, StugE fixed, OKW buffed, ostheer nerfed (due to sniper camo), soviets nerfed, USF unchanged much

Kinda hoped for better and bigger patch

Sums up my thoughts.

T-70 should have the vehicle crew repair locked behind vet, same with Stuart.

The soviet infantry changes just... like why... so over done.

Sniper changes are totally unwarranted/the entirely wrong direction. 10seconds... SMH but don't worry vehicle cloak is 5 seconds...?
26 Nov 2016, 02:01 AM
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

RIP Guards, Stug-e, and stuart. These units deserved nerfs but perhaps not this much. Some of the manpower increases are ridiculous especially since these units will perform significantly worse, therefore reducing their cost effectiveness hugely. Will not be surprised if players just avoid these units all together.

Puma mg nerf, umm the mg is already pretty shit vs inf why remove the capability all together? Also the piat homing missiles WHAT?, this is really dumb. Buff piats fine, but this is gonna look funny watching a piat tracking down a vehicle.

Otherwise GREAT changes hope most go through.
26 Nov 2016, 02:24 AM
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414

puma nerf? The AT capabilities were increased and that's the reason why I get the puma.
26 Nov 2016, 02:47 AM
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

Overall, a very good patch. They fixed 90% of the issues with the live version of the game (turbomortar, light vehicle meta, etc.), and numerous bug fixes and quality of life changes.

Not perfect, but definitely in the right direction.
26 Nov 2016, 02:56 AM
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Cost, counters, configuration. Pick two to avoid massive balance swings. For example, Guards.

Performance nerfed, cost increased, counter buffed.


26 Nov 2016, 05:08 AM
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 236

Can pak 43 have its 100 range back? One could hope XD
26 Nov 2016, 05:47 AM
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2233 | Subs: 1

i don't understand why nobody is talking about the real problem of the game...

which is Arty Cover and Comets

i just don't understand it...
26 Nov 2016, 06:36 AM
avatar of Nubb3r

Posts: 141

i don't understand why nobody is talking about the real problem of the game...

which is Arty Cover and Comets

i just don't understand it...

Because those are rather team game problems. Most people have accepted that team games are mostly broken anyway (not particularly on one side, but just in general), thus everybody focuses on 1v1 for balance. Team games have their own beauty/fun, but they are just fubar. So many mechanics and how they interact with each other in 2v2, 3v3 or god forbid 4v4 is beyond any way of fixing it, without completely redesigining the game and it's mechanics (or screwing up 1v1, which is the only salvagable mode) in the most fundamental way.

Arty cover and comets are not very decisive factors in 1v1s as much as they are in team games, because they can't be spammed as much as in 1v1 and because a singular instance won't cut it. You won't get a lot more than one (meaningful) instance, because that stuff is expensive.
26 Nov 2016, 07:06 AM
avatar of JackDickolson

Posts: 181

No "Most of the changes are welcome, but a lot of important issues avoided" option.

What urgent issues?


?T34s:T3485 LMG profile and cost needs to be looked at. T3475 needs a price increase

?Recieved Accuracy:Acquired from veterancy is too high. Offending units: all allied infantry and OKW Panzerfossils

?Emplacements:About time duh. Reduce the duration for brace or make the cost 90 munitions. F

?British Teching Cost:their tanks and "good stuff" arrive too early.

?USF Mortar:Still has the same rate of fire as the MG42. The scatter is too low.

?Panther:The disgrace of the fatherland.

?Stuart:The LMGs' ROF could be lowered down. It is still powerful for the timing and cost.

?Axis Light Vehicles:Need immunity against small arms.

?SOV Mark Target:One of the biggest cheesy bullshit abilities in game. With the allies late game buff, it is more noticeable.

26 Nov 2016, 07:16 AM
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414

I agree. There are a ot of issues, but any step in the right direction is going to be strongly welcomed. This will make the game 30% more enjoyable.

I agree with most of the changes.
26 Nov 2016, 07:24 AM
avatar of JackDickolson

Posts: 181

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2016, 07:16 AMsinthe
I agree. There are a ot of issues, but any step in the right direction is going to be strongly welcomed. This will make the game 30% more enjoyable.
True. The satisfaction factor is actually around +%50 more for me now. I tested all light vehicles, Penals+Guards and a few more stuff and they were surprisingly well balanced and consistent.

The biggest winner is the Sturmpioneer rework, kudos to the genius who came up with those ideas. That actually made OKW a lot more enjoyable.

See? That is what I'd call a smart tweak.

Another thing that I forgot to mention was the fact that some prominent and elder community members were left off of TheMachine's list of testers, including:

  • Cruzz (duh)
  • Cruzz (duh)
  • Elchino
  • Luvnest
  • DevM
  • Jove
  • Lord BartonPL
  • DonnieChan

To name a few

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