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[2vs2] RIP Axis

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2 Sep 2016, 05:39 AM
#21
avatar of FG127820

Posts: 101

OKW needs to go mech truck every game for luchs + puma and keep them alive; they make such a noticeable different mid game. In high-level play Saving for late game vehicles first will almost invariably lose the game since OKW infantry alone have a very hard time standing up to their allied counterparts.
2 Sep 2016, 06:02 AM
#22
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

the reason I play less and less. USF is beyond easy, combined with a mixed ally even more ridiculous. So that's no fun.

Then I try and play for the Reich, and get swagged on. Woo.

Don't think USF or allies needs nerfs, it's more of axis units not being on par. Panther is the worst example. How can the comet be what it is vs Inf and tanks, but the panther requires all 3 mgs at point blank(where allies have hella snares) to be even close to the same AI as the comet.

There's many more examples like that.

And yeah you can win as axis. Not without wanting to kill yourself after 3-4 games though

Maps suck dick too, why is north Moscow still a thing


And rezhev winter north...

Or getting the two bad HQ spots on Across the Rhine. Sometimes your fuel is just as far away as theirs.
2 Sep 2016, 06:37 AM
#23
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

I think a few small adjustments need to be made.
USF
- crew repair criticalss needs nerf
- RM can't hold 2 bars or M1919s
- Lazer guided machine gun mortar needs nerf to its scatter and rof
- Stuart needs small nerf to the stun ability.
Limit Calliope's to 2 on the field.

Soviets
-small nerf to penal accuracy with its veteran
- give cons 1 DP upgrade
- make demo charges visible outside of cover. ( S mines have signs on them lol)
- t34/85 fuel to 140

Brits
- no double brens on ISs
- take away offensives bonuses for sappers in cover.
- comet armor nerf (its only 10 less than tiger)
- Cromwell fuel cost to 120

Ostheer
- fix coaxial mg on 222 and increase price to 230mp 25 fuel
- panther needs better accuracy or better ROF. It's so sad staying in the battle trying to get that last shot off only to see it miss.
- p4 fuel to 120 OR increase its penetration
- increase pios repair rate when upgraded with sweeper.

OKW
- give racketen green cover and replace retreat with reverse. Perhaps limit cloaking to only when stationary.
-fix JP4 super cloak
- add 250 half-track that can reinforce and men can shoot out the back (like PE infantry half-track from vcoh
- decrease cost for Shreks on spios


Take away...
-Forward retreat points
-Cramped QQ maps
-massive maps

2 Sep 2016, 06:51 AM
#24
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

example the luchs: it was made for dealing with infanterie.

but...nearly every infantery is his hardcounter. Why? cause all allie faction have massiv anti tank tools on their infanterie.

riflemen/ echo with double zook and snare
brits bloobs with pias
russian snares and tank rifles

stuarts an t70 wipe faster infaterie than luchs....plus hav anti tank posibiltys and stun rounds/ smoke

if the axis has such effitive units..


but no..the have not really good anti tank infanterie...only panzergrenadies
2 Sep 2016, 07:36 AM
#25
avatar of LegioxRoma

Posts: 267

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2016, 21:13 PMStark
I said it 100 times but i will repeat it again.

FIRST CHANGE THE F**KING MAP POOL!

Like Stark said the biggest problem is the map pool...just horrible. srsly. i mostly, only, play 2v2at and most of times, in early start my first mind is about " god again that sh***y map".
2 Sep 2016, 08:18 AM
#26
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

I think the advantage is definitely in the favour of allies when playing 2v2 even in 3v3 also. They are just so much easier to play especially since axis don't have superior support weapons anymore like they use to.

Allied mainline infantry stand up better to axis inf in the early and mid game: lmg rifles, bren tommies/engineers and penals + guards can all go toe to toe easy with lmg grens or stg volks.

You can rely on more support weapons if you're ostheer but if you are okw good luck holding them back. Also the problem with relying on more support units is that you will get crushed by superior allied indirect fire later on such as the calliope, mattress, katy.

Not to mention that as axis you usually have to stick to one side and group up in order to win engagements. Thus making you more vulnerable to indirect fire which currently rules the team game meta.
2 Sep 2016, 08:53 AM
#27
avatar of oakdk
Patrion 14

Posts: 69

I think the advantage is definitely in the favour of allies when playing 2v2 even in 3v3 also. They are just so much easier to play especially since axis don't have superior support weapons anymore like they use to.

Allied mainline infantry stand up better to axis inf in the early and mid game: lmg rifles, bren tommies/engineers and penals + guards can all go toe to toe easy with lmg grens or stg volks.

You can rely on more support weapons if you're ostheer but if you are okw good luck holding them back. Also the problem with relying on more support units is that you will get crushed by superior allied indirect fire later on such as the calliope, mattress, katy.

Not to mention that as axis you usually have to stick to one side and group up in order to win engagements. Thus making you more vulnerable to indirect fire which currently rules the team game meta.


Yep, and u know that at T70 or a Stuart, will arrive, so u have to have som kind of AT, because 222 dont cut it... That means, that u are one squad of inf down, and if allied play aggressive early game, u are struggling. So even in 2 vs 2 I go puma commander, or I will get totally pushed out of the map. And again the map pool... Please Relic we have reached milestone 5, so we still support the game, and hope u do too. To update the map-poole is so easily done! And we could make a new 2vs2 Map pool turnement:). I really miss Eindhoven :(
2 Sep 2016, 10:15 AM
#28
avatar of Obersoldat

Posts: 393

Well, the truth is that double OKW was superior combo in 2v2 for a very very long time so...
Not saying that now it's time for allies but after very long OKW domination in 2v2, it's good that something has changed.


So basically what you are saying is that one side was OP for a while its good that another side is OP now.

Im glad you are not in control of the balance.

2 Sep 2016, 11:13 AM
#29
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



So basically what you are saying is that one side was OP for a while its good that another side is OP now.

Im glad you are not in control of the balance.



L2Read.

I'm saying that none side is supopossed to have temporary advantage but it's better if advantage switches from side to side than if it stayed with double OKW forever.
2 Sep 2016, 11:17 AM
#30
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

OKW and OST have some pretty gimmicky synergy going. That is to say, both factions lack some early-game tools (for very little reason), that they require the other faction to provide:

OKW:
- can't build caches
- has no access to smoke (or anything anti-MG early on)
- Can't field a suppression platform early on (which would help them get the jump on MGs)
- Has very limited access to offmaps to burn munitions (there's only a handful of doctrines)
- (healing is a non-issue for OKW in higher modes)

OST:
- can't repair their vehicles, even if their life depended on it (it does!)

(The Faust & Schreckblob synergy was stupid and needed to go, though)

None of these gimmicks would make either faction (or their combo) OP, if they were addressed.

The only real advantages that Axis can muster that I can think of are:
- Command P4 (non-negotiable if you want to use infantry after rocket arty hits the field)
- Reinforcement 251 (when combined with excellent OST support weapons AND P4)
- Some ridiculously over-efficient offmaps from OST (CAS, Stuka)
- Free T4 lockdown
- Some super-heavies from OKW (Sturmtiger, Command P5 and KT)
- Ability to field an early Stuka, if needed
- Ability to call an early Puma to kill Light Vehicle rushes (Puma is the best anti-light vehicle, but you need to guess)
- JP4, for everything that Stug spam can't reach
- IR-HT (no-brainer)

Which is to say, that's not a whole lot.

I think it started going downhill for Axis when they began to lose their long-range superiority:

At first, we had Calliope and Land-mattress:
- those things need to wipe support guns (otherwise they're useless)
- However, they don't need to wipe infantry that bad, now that there's no Volksblobs anymore

Then, we had mortar emplacement and the USF mortar:
- Basically that took away the buy-and-forget advantage that OST/OKW traditionally enjoyed with their light artillery

Finally, we had the Firefly revamp:
- Tulips just shouldn't prevent movement. Duh!

I think a few small adjustments need to be made.
USF
- crew repair criticalss needs nerf
- RM can't hold 2 bars or M1919s
- Lazer guided machine gun mortar needs nerf to its scatter and rof
- Stuart needs small nerf to the stun ability.
Limit Calliope's to 2 on the field.

Soviets
-small nerf to penal accuracy with its veteran
- give cons 1 DP upgrade
- make demo charges visible outside of cover. ( S mines have signs on them lol)
- t34/85 fuel to 140

Brits
- no double brens on ISs
- take away offensives bonuses for sappers in cover.
- comet armor nerf (its only 10 less than tiger)
- Cromwell fuel cost to 120

Ostheer
- fix coaxial mg on 222 and increase price to 230mp 25 fuel
- panther needs better accuracy or better ROF. It's so sad staying in the battle trying to get that last shot off only to see it miss.
- p4 fuel to 120 OR increase its penetration
- increase pios repair rate when upgraded with sweeper.

OKW
- give racketen green cover and replace retreat with reverse. Perhaps limit cloaking to only when stationary.
-fix JP4 super cloak
- add 250 half-track that can reinforce and men can shoot out the back (like PE infantry half-track from vcoh
- decrease cost for Shreks on spios


Take away...
-Forward retreat points
-Cramped QQ maps
-massive maps



Amen
2 Sep 2016, 11:36 AM
#31
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

by the way...can someone tell me the weakness from the brits??

In my opinion..they get all the nice stuff from every faction....only a better version from the copy units.

the get strong tanks, strong infantery, fast repair, strong emplacement, strong mines, strong uniqe units, strong grenades, strong air force, strong artilleriy, can build caches, sniper, strong viewrange /scouts, flamers, mörsers, best cost / power effective units (example bofors)


what the hell did they dev thniking? "hey...let them give all the nice stuff...noobs will buy it...and we will be rich"

2 Sep 2016, 11:48 AM
#32
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

by the way...can someone tell me the weakness from the brits??


Sure:
- No garrison clearing (except for emplacements)
- No smoke (until Cromwell)
- No snares (ever; except for AEC, which is the same thing)
- AEC hard-countered by 444 or Puma (you can force AEC by spamming MGs)
- Tommies suck HARD at flanking (if a Tommy squad flanks your MG don't retreat: just move and reposition. Tommies won't be able to hit shit while they are chasing you)
- No non-tech call-ins to ruin your day (once you've jumped at the jugular, there's nothing they can do to get out of it)

OST tactics
- Skip T1 and jump straight for the most annoying garrison to take
- Just spam MGs (2-3) vs them and they can do absolutely nothing.
- Now, you've forced them to go emplacements.
- Then, rush T2 & a few cars (Brits have no snares) vs them and profit
- Mix a 251 in with your car spam, to reinforce your MGs
- If the enemy is still in the game, aim to buy a command P4 to negate the inevitable land-matress

Bonus points when you realise that MG42 spam can take sim city down, frontally.
2 Sep 2016, 11:48 AM
#33
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

by the way...can someone tell me the weakness from the brits??

In my opinion..they get all the nice stuff from every faction....only a better version from the copy units.

the get strong tanks, strong infantery, fast repair, strong emplacement, strong mines, strong uniqe units, strong grenades, strong air force, strong artilleriy, can build caches, sniper, strong viewrange /scouts, flamers, mörsers, best cost / power effective units (example bofors)


what the hell did they dev thniking? "hey...let them give all the nice stuff...noobs will buy it...and we will be rich"



Wut?
How thier tanks are stronger than any other faction?
Strong infantry? Try to catch Tommies out of cover and say they are strong.
Fast repairs like USF or OKW
Emplacement - ok, unique
mines? huh?
All factions have strong unique units.
Nades? Gammon bombs? easy to dodge (unless it's a commandos' nade)
How Brits air abilities are better than Axis?
Strong arty? Wut?! :lol:
Caches? ...
Sniper? Nothing special
Flamers? What flamers? WASP? :lol:

Brits are not some ultimate faction.
2 Sep 2016, 11:49 AM
#34
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

by the way...can someone tell me the weakness from the brits??

In my opinion..they get all the nice stuff from every faction....only a better version from the copy units.

the get strong tanks, strong infantery, fast repair, strong emplacement, strong mines, strong uniqe units, strong grenades, strong air force, strong artilleriy, can build caches, sniper, strong viewrange /scouts, flamers, mörsers, best cost / power effective units (example bofors)


what the hell did they dev thniking? "hey...let them give all the nice stuff...noobs will buy it...and we will be rich"



They horribly bleed from losses. Every squad of their T0 costs 280MP with 28(?) reinforce.
Otherwise yeah, they have the best MG, best defensive inf and by far the best non doc tanks, if you manage to get into the mid game, things get pretty easy. Especially in 2v2.

btw don't listen to Australian Magic, he is the Allied fanboy par excellence and probably on the same level as Katitof.
2 Sep 2016, 11:50 AM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

by the way...can someone tell me the weakness from the brits??

In my opinion..they get all the nice stuff from every faction....only a better version from the copy units.

the get strong tanks, strong infantery, fast repair, strong emplacement, strong mines, strong uniqe units, strong grenades, strong air force, strong artilleriy, can build caches, sniper, strong viewrange /scouts, flamers, mörsers, best cost / power effective units (example bofors)


what the hell did they dev thniking? "hey...let them give all the nice stuff...noobs will buy it...and we will be rich"


Play brits.

You'll learn a lot of their weakness.

And if not, we'll see you in top 10 in 2 weeks, right?

Players religiously playing exclusively one side without ever going to play the other side on the same level will always feel inferior, because they have only half of the knowledge to play competitively they need.
2 Sep 2016, 12:23 PM
#36
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 966

Brits destroyed Coh2. There, I said it. Giving them superior late game to Germans was asinine. Since we are obviously stuck with this bullshit design, a Panther buff is needed.

The Panther was nerfed to the weak performance it currently has when it faced

1) US without the Pershing and low sight range Jacksons
2) and Russians with SU-85s that had worse penetration.

This is simply not the case any longer + British lategame dominance has been introduced. No reason at all to keep the Panther small.
2 Sep 2016, 12:30 PM
#37
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Brits destroyed Coh2. There, I said it. Giving them superior late game to Germans was asinine. Since we are obviously stuck with this bullshit design, a Panther buff is needed.

The Panther was nerfed to the weak performance it currently has when it faced

1) US without the Pershing and low sight range Jacksons
2) and Russians with SU-85s that had worse penetration.

This is simply not the case any longer + British lategame dominance has been introduced. No reason at all to keep the Panther small.

That's not really excuse to OP panther again and brits were designed from get go to counter panthers and tigers, so using these against them is sub optimal.

Pershing isn't a factor at all, because its a singular non stock doctrine and it can't solo microed panther anyway.

SU-85 pens heavies better, but its completely one sided fight vs panther right now as before it was RNG on the slugfest as it lost 50% of potential DPS and is basically turretless, armorless, slow panther and hardly counters panther.
2 Sep 2016, 12:33 PM
#38
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

yeah..and was design to counter infantery, too. double lmg on them is horrible....best mg..best sturminfanterie...best anit infantery capabilty on tanks...yeah...we should attack them with ufos...oh wait...they have the bofors...best unit in game in cost/ effictive.


2 Sep 2016, 12:38 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

yeah..and was design to counter infantery, too.




Learn it, use it.

double lmg on them is horrible....

Which isn't brit exclusive problem. All LMGs except DPs should take 2 slots to use, Paras can remain exception as they are doctrine defining unit.

best mg..

Last I checked, HMG42 was still Ost unit.

best sturminfanterie...

Shock troops are soviet unit.

best anit infantery capabilty on tanks...

And 75mm sherman is USF unit.
2 Sep 2016, 12:56 PM
#40
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

Good thing katitof Posted here and made clear that everything is fine, I was worried for a second that the game May be unbalanced
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