russian armor

[2vs2] RIP Axis

PAGES (11)down
1 Sep 2016, 15:43 PM
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1216


I´ve observed this quite a while now and I think I might open a thread about this. My observations come mainly from a 2vs2 point of view so might not apply to 1vs1 or larger game modes.

In short: Axis (Ostheer and OKW) have become almost unplayable in 2vs2s.

Reasons: The main reason I see responsible for this, differ from faction to faction. To put it reasonably short, it comes down to the meta strategies, which are way easier and effective to pull off as an Allied player. Another reason being that every Allied faction does something better than both German factions and thus the synergy simply becomes too effective (Brits are way better lategame, US are way better early game, Soviets are betterin the support role).

Soviets: Support weapon spam. Maxims + multiple mortars.

USA: Rifle blobs into Pershing.

Brits: Way superior mid- and lategame. Cromwells + Comets. Especially the Comets border on cheese since they bounce Pak shots on range like it´s nothing and hard counter AT guns at close range (Grenades, Phosporus rounds).

Ostheer: Comes down to Sniper cheese into 222s. Yet if you lose that one unit, you are done. One mistake as Ostheer will usually cost you the game. Forget about the lategame if there is a Brit in the game.

OKW: Imo crippled since the last patch. It´s a game of catching up to your opponents. Volks with StGs are nowhere able to fight of Bren and BAR blobs. The tanks are not able to effectively outclass anything for their higher price.

The Problem summed up: At the end of the day the Germans are hard pressed to deal with all the Bren and Bar blobs early (or Soviet support weapon spam), only to not be able to cope with the Brit player later. Comets are the best medium in the game. Crocodiles and Comets simply hard counter anti tank guns.

The only ray of hope for German players, the Panther simply doesn´t perform in the lategame to give Germans an edge, or even be on par with Brits.

Especially in 2vs2s the weaknesses of the Brits, Russians and US are usually compensated, making it nigh impossible to defeat them on an equal skill level. There is an almost perfect synergy between the factions. OKW meanwhile seems to have turned into an Ostheer clone with the same weaknesses. Recently playing as Allies feels like a walk in the park, while especially as Ostheer one mistake can cost you the game (OKW still has larger squads).

In my opinion another balance patch adjusting the lategame performance of some units needs to be considered.

1 Sep 2016, 15:57 PM
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 236

this also due to 2v2s having garbage maps to choose from. Many of them being just to small like crossing in the woods and semosky. They're 1v1 maps :/
1 Sep 2016, 15:59 PM
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

Personally, axis are weaker than allies in 2v2 since brits Release..so nothing New here for me :p
1 Sep 2016, 16:52 PM
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

So you have 2v2 AT ratio 0.8 and you say rip axis?
1 Sep 2016, 17:16 PM
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1216

So you have 2v2 AT ratio 0.8 and you say rip axis?
Those were arranged teams with almost all games pre Brits release.

The actual 2v2 random statistic is 0.67 and 3/4th of those games are from before the British release. It´s no secret that since then Germans can´t get a foot into any stage of the game (outside of 1vs1). Weaker early, weaker mid, weaker late.
1 Sep 2016, 17:37 PM
avatar of Ulfrik_Stormcloak

Posts: 16

It's mainly all because of allied indirect fire superiority, 2x land mattress/caliope + blob is usually enough to win a game in 2v2.
1 Sep 2016, 17:44 PM
avatar of bert69

Posts: 150

From my experience, its more like you can't go without a solid indirect fire arty piece anymore, which means pwerfer or walking stuka. Build up that solid high vet army though the scavenge commander for okw makes things way way easier.

You also need at least a call-in arty like light artillery barrage, scavenge arty etc. Other than that, you can play basically standard axis hehe. Just don't expect to be able to plop down a med hq like okw used to be able to do. It's almost always safer to put it in your base. i also have good results from aggressively scouting with my kubel especially against brits to shut down that early building control.
1 Sep 2016, 17:49 PM
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Obers need the panzerschrecks.

Would this make OKW more like Ost? Yeah, pretty much.

But what could be done is that OKW could become a clone of CoH1 Wehr. They're almost there.

Obers in the Medic Truck able to schrecks, swap the walking stuka with the JP4. It'd be a linear, but flexible progression of OKW tech. (And the MG34 can go and die somewhere alone. Or go T0.)

Ostheer just need to have their pgrens come with rifles, a Tiger with frontal armor, and a Panther that either shoots faster or aims better on the move. The StuG is their flavor and backbone. It could potentially use a small health or frontal armor buff, but that's probably unnecessary.

Then the inevitable will be complete. Let the Ostheer be about StuGs and suppression, the OKW about the Luchs rush versus a defensive role with medics, stronger infantry, and indirect fire.

...At least as far as the Axis are concerned. USF is a whole other can of beans. CoH2 is a tangled web of half-balanced half-broken designs. :sibHyena:

If I'm just being all nutty and crazy with my thoughts, OKW units could be locked at vet 3, and vet 4 and 5 could be side upgrades for infantry and vehicles respectively. :megusta:
1 Sep 2016, 17:51 PM
avatar of Sinister

Posts: 96 | Subs: 1

Its the same in 3s/4s, those brackets dominated by axis early on are really struggle for axis nowadays. Basically if u dont have great early game u will get rekt by allies op arty, while axis esepcially wehrmacht has to rely on shity pwerfer and besides 50kg bomb is useless with its indirect fire late game.
1 Sep 2016, 18:13 PM
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Well, the truth is that double OKW was superior combo in 2v2 for a very very long time so...
Not saying that now it's time for allies but after very long OKW domination in 2v2, it's good that something has changed.
1 Sep 2016, 18:23 PM
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Game has been stale and metawise dead from axis player pov for sometime now,i dont bother to make any threads anymore.Game is not interesting enough to play anymore,maybe some future patch someday.Right now not worth it as axis player.
1 Sep 2016, 18:24 PM
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Honestly, I find that the problem is not that Axis are UP per se, but that certain units over over performing and preventing key units on the Axis side from contributing correctly.

Volks are supposed to lose rifles and IS's with upgrades, since those cost fuel to unlock and munitions to equip, and volks just get their unlock as soon as the first truck drops. The problem is Obers are supposed to support volks effectively and currently vet 0 Obers are hard to vet. But at vet Obers become so deadly it is hard to even try to engage them with infantry, let alone beat them.

The MG34 could stand with a lower vet ceiling since it is hard to vet with its low damage.
1 Sep 2016, 20:13 PM
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1696

Well, the truth is that double OKW was superior combo in 2v2 for a very very long time so...
Not saying that now it's time for allies but after very long OKW domination in 2v2, it's good that something has changed.

Dude, you are exactly saying that lol
1 Sep 2016, 21:13 PM
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

I said it 100 times but i will repeat it again.

1 Sep 2016, 21:22 PM
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

the reason I play less and less. USF is beyond easy, combined with a mixed ally even more ridiculous.
1 Sep 2016, 21:26 PM
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3575 | Subs: 1

The main reason I lose playing Axis AT game or random game is because my fellow teammates never bother to build a midgame tank, they all wait to get their super late game panther or king tiger. It is more visible with the OKW. OKW players, friends of mine included, are completely denying themselves their mid game options. Not a Pz4, sometime not even a Luch. -Hey I save for the King tiger. Too bad they have plenty of counter at that time and you already lost your infantry.
I have to admit a lot of OKW players are still playing that game as before the last patch and they mainly lose because of that first.

For the Ostheer, honestly playing Allied when I see an Ostheer player with Pz4/Stug/Ostwind intel bulletin, I know I'll face/play with someone good, who understand the meta and the game will be hard. But too many Ostheer players are still spaming HMG/cache into T4. They haven't yet release that USF got a mortar and the new meta here is to spam them early game. You can't play anymore only conservative as Ostheer, you have to balance your army, wall of HMG42 doesn't work anymore.

Now yes, probably Allied factions have the edge today, but this is not the main reason of many Axis defeat.

Last but not least, one question, how Volks can feel weaker than last patch vs RM? they got STG instead of shreck, their DPS is better in all aspects when RM dps haven't change.
1 Sep 2016, 21:45 PM
avatar of Nick Banana

Posts: 96

need more veto for 2v2 shit map
allies have more combo mix cheese strategy
1 Sep 2016, 21:55 PM
2 Sep 2016, 00:11 AM
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

click at on top of the site
2 Sep 2016, 01:00 AM
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Maps are the biggest problem in my experience, sometimes you get the bad spawn on a map like the north of Moscow or Train Station and you are handicapped from the start, not to think of those maps where bots Munitions points are basically next to each other.
PAGES (11)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

421 users are online: 3 members and 418 guests
IpKaiFung, Protos Angelus, Crecer13
2 posts in the last 24h
54 posts in the last week
278 posts in the last month
Registered members: 42104
Welcome our newest member, kirazmattson
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM