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T70 Nerf

11 Aug 2016, 12:41 PM
#41
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



But there Will be much more opposition to by SU fanboys compared to what TheMashine suggested :-).


Uh sorry, but it will be nerf to all light vehicles, so they have standardised long range acuraccy, also maybe increase scatter a bit too so that decrease accuracy even change something
11 Aug 2016, 13:03 PM
#42
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Light vehicle meta kind of jumped the shark when the 222 was buffed to the state it is today, since ostheer had no other vehicle candidate to fill that role.

Wouldn't it help if all ligjt vehicles received a heavy manpower price nerf?

If you look arpund the prices for a bit you are going to realise that light vehicles cost an arbitrary amount of MP. I am assuming this is because the community is so fixated on Fuel prices that they forget about MP.

God tier (200MP): Stug-E, Stuart, T-70
Mid tier (200mp, but weaker): 251, 222
Low tier: m20 (340mp) Luchs(340) Puma(280) aec(380) m5(280)

A low mp cost allows the offender to field both the light tank, AND whatever other unit they meed to harass the defender (who probably needs a 320mp gun if they don't want to partake in the meta). The Stuart in particular, is on a league of its own since it comes with a free usf squad (which now isn't forced to lug around a bazooka at all times).

Since it would be nice to see light vehicles remain relevant in the late game, I would propose:
- nerf mp price to 300-ish for all vehicles.
- give a steep mp price reduction when the player researches all tiers.
11 Aug 2016, 13:04 PM
#43
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

I feel like every light vehicle in game has its pros and cons and it's mostly fine.

Luchs: great camo, 360+HP, murder machine when flanks infantry behind cover / not that good accuracy.
222: probably most cost-efficient unit in game, insane when vet 2 + scope.
Puma: great for AT, even in late-game, shuts down all light vehicles play / weak AI
Stug E: Amazing AI, great ability, 560HP / no turret
Stuart: trying to be AI and AT. General medicore light vehicles.
AEC: combo of weaker Puma and weaker T70.
T70: amazing AI, good AT, great recon mode, probably the best light vehicle in game (but some vehicles has to be the best) but 320HP (+repairs). Can be stopped by any Axis' lights.
11 Aug 2016, 15:21 PM
#44
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500



Luchs: great camo, murder machine



Are you serious?
11 Aug 2016, 15:57 PM
#45
avatar of Pablonano

Posts: 297

i feel like people just wants to not worry about seeing one in the match, when every unit should be a problem that you should be worried about
11 Aug 2016, 16:32 PM
#46
avatar of Brassatko

Posts: 175

I feel like every light vehicle in game has its pros and cons and it's mostly fine.

Luchs: great camo, 360+HP, murder machine when flanks infantry behind cover / not that good accuracy.
222: probably most cost-efficient unit in game, insane when vet 2 + scope.
Puma: great for AT, even in late-game, shuts down all light vehicles play / weak AI
Stug E: Amazing AI, great ability, 560HP / no turret
Stuart: trying to be AI and AT. General medicore light vehicles.
AEC: combo of weaker Puma and weaker T70.
T70: amazing AI, good AT, great recon mode, probably the best light vehicle in game (but some vehicles has to be the best) but 320HP (+repairs). Can be stopped by any Axis' lights.


great camo... , you gotta be joking me, no? Murder machine? We're talking about it's big brother here, the t-70.
11 Aug 2016, 16:36 PM
#47
avatar of Brassatko

Posts: 175

i feel like people just wants to dont have to worry about seeing one in the match, when every unit should be a problem


English please
11 Aug 2016, 17:33 PM
#48
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Light vehicle meta kind of jumped the shark when the 222 was buffed to the state it is today, since ostheer had no other vehicle candidate to fill that role.

Wouldn't it help if all ligjt vehicles received a heavy manpower price nerf?

If you look arpund the prices for a bit you are going to realise that light vehicles cost an arbitrary amount of MP. I am assuming this is because the community is so fixated on Fuel prices that they forget about MP.

God tier (200MP): Stug-E, Stuart, T-70
Mid tier (200mp, but weaker): 251, 222
Low tier: m20 (340mp) Luchs(340) Puma(280) aec(380) m5(280)

A low mp cost allows the offender to field both the light tank, AND whatever other unit they meed to harass the defender (who probably needs a 320mp gun if they don't want to partake in the meta). The Stuart in particular, is on a league of its own since it comes with a free usf squad (which now isn't forced to lug around a bazooka at all times).

Since it would be nice to see light vehicles remain relevant in the late game, I would propose:
- nerf mp price to 300-ish for all vehicles.
- give a steep mp price reduction when the player researches all tiers.


Stuart actually costs 240 MP, just thought you'd want to edit that on your post.
11 Aug 2016, 17:57 PM
#49
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2


God tier (200MP): Stug-E, Stuart, T-70
Mid tier (200mp, but weaker): 251, 222
Low tier: m20 (340mp) Luchs(340) Puma(280) aec(380) m5(280)



I wouldn't be so hasty with placing T70 as a god tier. Why? Becasue you look only at the units' costs but if we take a bigger picture it's not god tier anymore.

First Luchs needs 615MP 115F.
First T70 needs 600MP 175F (with T2 start).

It's 60 more fuel.

But what's more important, once Luchs hits the field, OKW already has incendiary nades, pzfausts and access to schrecks.

On the other hand SU player has to pay for this. So T70 is way more expensive in terms of fuel but if we add at least AT nades or Molo upgrade, it becomes the most expensive light vehicles in overall view.
11 Aug 2016, 19:23 PM
#50
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Again Vindi rage post (forget post about OCF or ESL where allies win first games but axis do comeback) :D. Now t-70 :(.
11 Aug 2016, 19:50 PM
#51
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500



I wouldn't be so hasty with placing T70 as a god tier. Why? Becasue you look only at the units' costs but if we take a bigger picture it's not god tier anymore.

First Luchs needs 615MP 115F.
First T70 needs 600MP 175F (with T2 start).

It's 60 more fuel.

But what's more important, once Luchs hits the field, OKW already has incendiary nades, pzfausts and access to schrecks.

On the other hand SU player has to pay for this. So T70 is way more expensive in terms of fuel but if we add at least AT nades or Molo upgrade, it becomes the most expensive light vehicles in overall view.



Yeah, except OKW needs healing as well.
11 Aug 2016, 20:02 PM
#52
avatar of Obersoldat

Posts: 393



I wouldn't be so hasty with placing T70 as a god tier. Why? Becasue you look only at the units' costs but if we take a bigger picture it's not god tier anymore.

First Luchs needs 615MP 115F.
First T70 needs 600MP 175F (with T2 start).


It's 60 more fuel.

But what's more important, once Luchs hits the field, OKW already has incendiary nades, pzfausts and access to schrecks.

On the other hand SU player has to pay for this. So T70 is way more expensive in terms of fuel but if we add at least AT nades or Molo upgrade, it becomes the most expensive light vehicles in overall view.


If we include healing with it would be:

First Luchs needs 1015MP 170F.
First T70 needs 600MP 175F (with T2 start).


And dont forget the mp bleed due to having no medics for 10-15min. And T70 performs out of the box much better than Luchs, when do you see a late game Luchs, rarely unlike a late game T70.

And yes I fully agree with VindicareX.
11 Aug 2016, 20:45 PM
#53
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

No medics? As far as I know, OKW has access to healing without Med HQ.

Just sayin...

Funny how you included healing just for OKW, but if you want to include everything, do the math for me with healing, snares and incendiary (molo) nades ;)
12 Aug 2016, 01:41 AM
#54
avatar of IamCat

Posts: 84

I feel like every light vehicle in game has its pros and cons and it's mostly fine.

Luchs: great camo, 360+HP, murder machine when flanks infantry behind cover / not that good accuracy.
222: probably most cost-efficient unit in game, insane when vet 2 + scope.
Puma: great for AT, even in late-game, shuts down all light vehicles play / weak AI
Stug E: Amazing AI, great ability, 560HP / no turret
Stuart: trying to be AI and AT. General medicore light vehicles.
AEC: combo of weaker Puma and weaker T70.
T70: amazing AI, good AT, great recon mode, probably the best light vehicle in game (but some vehicles has to be the best) but 320HP (+repairs). Can be stopped by any Axis' lights.




I don't know man, people here seem to not realize this.<
12 Aug 2016, 09:45 AM
#55
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1



If we include healing with it would be:

First Luchs needs 1015MP 170F.
First T70 needs 600MP 175F (with T2 start).


And dont forget the mp bleed due to having no medics for 10-15min. And T70 performs out of the box much better than Luchs, when do you see a late game Luchs, rarely unlike a late game T70.

And yes I fully agree with VindicareX.


Sure, just add to this soviet medics + side tech. 1100 mp and 225 fuel.
12 Aug 2016, 09:53 AM
#56
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



If we include healing with it would be:

First Luchs needs 1015MP 170F.
First T70 needs 600MP 175F (with T2 start).


And dont forget the mp bleed due to having no medics for 10-15min. And T70 performs out of the box much better than Luchs, when do you see a late game Luchs, rarely unlike a late game T70.

And yes I fully agree with VindicareX.



I have to prove youre wrong. Not even 1 good OKW player will ever go healing before luchs ? Why he would do it ? It is much better to get first luchs then pay 35 munny for 1 time healing and then tech medics, you dont need medics so fast, you still get then in time (luchs 7 min, medics 10 min mark).


Hovewer Russians have to get AT nades if they dont want to get rekt by fast luchs or fast 222. And also if we want to count medics we should also count russians ones.


12 Aug 2016, 10:41 AM
#57
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500




I have to prove youre wrong. Not even 1 good OKW player will ever go healing before luchs ? Why he would do it ? It is much better to get first luchs then pay 35 munny for 1 time healing and then tech medics, you dont need medics so fast, you still get then in time (luchs 7 min, medics 10 min mark).


Hovewer Russians have to get AT nades if they dont want to get rekt by fast luchs or fast 222. And also if we want to count medics we should also count russians ones.




If we for some arbitrary reason decide to include all sideteching and teching into the cost of the two vehicles it amounts to 1115 mp and 200 fuel for Luchs and 1110 mp and 215 fuel for T-70, assuming T2 start.


But yeah, this doesn't prove anything lel
12 Aug 2016, 14:36 PM
#59
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Well c'mon people you all know Soviets need a few conscripts squads to cap to get that fuel, so the T70 costs 720 manpower more than you think.

Obviously this means that the T70 costs 1810mp and 215fuel. Obviously. :megusta:

I mean seriously, everyone should already factor this in by default. :foreveralone:
12 Aug 2016, 15:14 PM
#60
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Well c'mon people you all know Soviets need a few conscripts squads to cap to get that fuel, so the T70 costs 720 manpower more than you think.

Obviously this means that the T70 costs 1810mp and 215fuel. Obviously. :megusta:

I mean seriously, everyone should already factor this in by default. :foreveralone:

Riflemen cost 1680 MP because if you're getting one you have to get six :romeoMug:
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