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Jagdpanzer IV camo

12 Jul 2016, 12:30 PM
#21
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 12:23 PMHater
Never used JPIV much especially after it moved to T4, but played a game with a lot of JPIV recently and found camo useless because of next:
- you fire
- enemy fires back
- you cloak and reload
- enemy reloads
- you fire (and reveal unit)
- reloaded enemy fires back.
Described duel with SU-85.


This is a Learn-To-Abuse-The-Bug issue.

If you knew how to properly use J4 camo, the SU-85 would not have had the chance to fire back.
12 Jul 2016, 12:40 PM
#22
avatar of Routaloid
Donator 11

Posts: 33

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 12:30 PMDomine


Nope, JPIV is smaller by 32 cm. I know it's not a lot, but it's something.

Guess you should be talking about height so people would understand.
12 Jul 2016, 13:01 PM
#23
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

The Jagdpanzer IV probably learned from a Tactical Genius.

Not enough learning I'm afraid if implemented properly camo would be a vet ability for KT.
12 Jul 2016, 15:46 PM
#24
avatar of Kamzil118

Posts: 455


Not enough learning I'm afraid if implemented properly camo would be a vet ability for KT.

Maybe early signs from the Tactical Genius in the service of the God-Emperor.
12 Jul 2016, 16:54 PM
#25
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3141 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 12:30 PMDomine


Nope, JPIV is smaller by 32 cm. I know it's not a lot, but it's something.


I still wouldn't compare it to the Hetzer tho.
12 Jul 2016, 17:03 PM
#26
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 179

30 min Clown Car new Meta!!!!!!!!

Serious though, JP4 Cloak should be a timed ability

30 muni for 30 seconds of cloak, cancels out moment it reveals itself. 50 second cooldown
12 Jul 2016, 17:42 PM
#27
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

I'm fine with it not costing munitions, but then it shouldn't be able to be toggled during combat. Sometimes it simply vanishes directly in front of my tanks. Or it can be toggled during combat, but comes with forced hold fire when activated.

The commando camo has the same predator capabilities. Disappearing in front of my units with ease.

Camo in general is just lol.
12 Jul 2016, 22:12 PM
#28
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2016, 12:23 PMHater
Never used JPIV much especially after it moved to T4, but played a game with a lot of JPIV recently and found camo useless because of next:
- you fire
- enemy fires back
- you cloak and reload
- enemy reloads
- you fire (and reveal unit)
- reloaded enemy fires back.
Described duel with SU-85.


1-Aproach cloaked
2-Remove cloak and fire
3-Immediately cloak again
4-Wait for reload
5-GOTO1



If you are vet5, you are just better using the 150% accuracy, penetration and damage bonus.
12 Jul 2016, 23:46 PM
#29
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

Yeah this is really stupid. A great start would be changing the detection radius, that wouldn't even take much work. Next up hitbox whilst camo.
13 Jul 2016, 02:16 AM
#30
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

JPIV would be my top most for fixes in the next patch. It is frankly ridiculous that it has not been fixed since release.

Cloak time, cloak cool down, cloak bug all need to be addressed.
13 Jul 2016, 07:34 AM
#31
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


" they are fading out of existence , they are not shown on our iperspace module"
(Only homeworld fan will get it)
13 Jul 2016, 07:44 AM
#32
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

What is worts that it allows to completely avoid at guns fire and survive situations where any other TD would be 100% dead. Add to this 250 frontal armor, 800 hitpoints and 60 frontal sight with no moving penatly at vet 2. Why it still not fixed?
13 Jul 2016, 09:27 AM
#33
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

Probably the dumbest ability in the game. First it shouldn't be able to activate in combat, it should also have an out of combat cooldown like the infiltration grenades so that it can't be re activated immediately after disengaging. Also so the jp4 must be out of combat for a period of time before it can be activated.

Obviously the phase shit should be fixed also and a proper bonus to penetration and/or damage should be given to the first shot in camo while this ability in active to make sure its still useful.
13 Jul 2016, 10:19 AM
#34
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Well if we are crying about the JPIV camo, why is nobody talking about the luchs's camo? I don't have a problem with both, but i don't see anybody talking about the luchs which has almost the same camo "problem" as the jpiv (?), or i am just stupid and i can't read which could be the case 2 :snfPeter:
13 Jul 2016, 10:28 AM
#35
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Well if we are crying about the JPIV camo, why is nobody talking about the luchs's camo? I don't have a problem with both, but i don't see anybody talking about the luchs which has almost the same camo "problem" as the jpiv (?), or i am just stupid and i can't read which could be the case 2 :snfPeter:


The problem is that the two camos are not the same at all.

Note that there's also a huge disparity between the intended roles of the two units. The Luchs has to go up close to deal damage, whereas the JPIV can safely stay in the rear and do it's thing.

Luchs:
- 400 HP
- 40 gun range
- 20 range needed to detect camo

JP4
- 640 HP (becomes 800 HP with vet)
- 60 gun range
- 10 range needed to detect camo

Finally, since this is a game about trades, having an ability that allows you to cheat death becomes all the more annoying if the unit is expensive.

For instance, nobody ever complained about 222 (doctrinal) smoke. However, people seem to be getting the fumes to their mouth when the same ability is also available on, say, the Panther.
13 Jul 2016, 10:30 AM
#36
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



The problem is that the two camos are not the same at all.

Luchs:
- 400 HP
- 40 gun range
- 20 range needed to detect camo

JP4
- 640 HP (becomes 800 HP with vet)
- 60 gun range
- 10 range needed to detect camo

Note that there's also a huge disparity between the intended roles of the two units. The Luchs has to go up close to deal damage, whereas the JPIV can safely stay in the rear and do it's thing.

That are some true facts. (i m not a man of statistics) So yeah you are probably right and especially about the part that jpiv can safely stay in the back while the luchs needs to get to the front :)
13 Jul 2016, 14:22 PM
#37
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

Well if we are crying about the JPIV camo, why is nobody talking about the luchs's camo? I don't have a problem with both, but i don't see anybody talking about the luchs which has almost the same camo "problem" as the jpiv (?), or i am just stupid and i can't read which could be the case 2 :snfPeter:



The luchs is different because it's detection range is HUGE, it also tends to immediately uncloak itself by firing, unless you go hold fire, in which case it's just to slowly crawl away from danger. I'd be happy if luchs had another vet ability, like an APCR ability.
13 Jul 2016, 14:48 PM
#38
avatar of cleanexari

Posts: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jul 2016, 21:03 PMZzayne
It's been brought up before. Only fix needed is to limit stealth engagement to out of combat only. One of the most frustrating parts of this game is the re-stealth of a 40 ton tank that is engaged in a tank battle.


i do agree with you to make stealth enabled out of combat only, but the tank itself was only around 25 tons and 1,85m high so i´d say that the stealth-ability is quite fitting.
13 Jul 2016, 15:09 PM
#39
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2016, 14:22 PMDomine



The luchs is different because it's detection range is HUGE, it also tends to immediately uncloak itself by firing, unless you go hold fire, in which case it's just to slowly crawl away from danger. I'd be happy if luchs had another vet ability, like an APCR ability.

I like the cloak from the luchs. And it would be "OP" if you could get out of the battlefield really quick...
13 Jul 2016, 16:11 PM
#40
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500


I like the cloak from the luchs. And it would be "OP" if you could get out of the battlefield really quick...


I completely agree. The Luchs cloak is ok.
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