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russian armor

Improve abandon mechanic

8 Jul 2016, 13:03 PM
#1
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

First, I know that state this idea in this game state is almost useless. But I still describe my idea, please hear and let me know your opinion.

1. Introduction
As you know, abandon mechanic currently leave for RNGod to decide, which is kind of bad. But, to remove abandon is terrible option, because we all know we love it when we capture a tiger with allies, or a stuart with axis.
Now I think of a way to reduce rng completely, while still punish bad player.

2. New mechanic: two health bars
In addition to current tank health bar, a crew health bar is added with the same value as tank health bar. When the tank lose all its tank health, it will receive death critical. But if the crew health depleted? The tank go abandon!

3. Apply damage to each health bar
Now, for AP round, it will damage the tank as current state, but only deal around 40% to the crew. So when the tank keep receiving AP round, it will die normally. But, what if the tank does not die and repair back to full state? Its crew is still injured! Use above twice or more risk player to abandon the tank.

The explosive round, before, it was useless against tank, but now will deal damage to the crew inside(of course, it's still take very long to make a tank abandon with HE round). AT grenade, mortar, artillery and tank with HE round can pose minimal threat against tank.

4. Restore each health bar
To repair the tank, we use engineer as usual, but to heal the crew, we have to leave the tank at base! Player will have to decide to temporary not use that tank for a while or risk to face consequence. Field repair is no longer a no-brainer decision anymore.

5. Conclusion
If this mechanic is implemented, now you can control whenever your tank will die or abandon. No more frustrating when your tank suddenly go to enemy hand because of RNG.

So how is it? Is there anything you don't understand with my idea? Feel free to elaborate or comment.

Edit: Oh no, I forget the poll...
8 Jul 2016, 13:11 PM
#2
avatar of Bronski

Posts: 10

Way too complicated mechanics.
8 Jul 2016, 13:23 PM
#3
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

Not sure if possible from a modding point of view and not sure how you'll heal the crew from inside the tank exactly without popping them out of the tank like USF, and quite frankly this would probably work best with USF. But yeah, I really don't have the time to try it but maybe if someone else does...
nee
8 Jul 2016, 13:26 PM
#4
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

Love the ideas, but I also think it's a bit complicated. Maybe not too complicated, but given the game in its current form (and how Relic works), it's obviously just a pipe dream.

Currently it seems Relic wants abandons and criticals to be a factor once vehicles are very low in health. It works for now, at least you don't get REALLY random shit like engine damage at 75% health, but it's still obviously an RNG factor.

The idea of two health bars is an interesting one, but it's too complicated in the sense that Relic just needs to implement a way for USF vehicle crews to sustain damage when crewing vehicles (and also apply said mechanic to other factions), which accomplishes the same thing that you describe.
There is the problem that certain factions, commanders and overall unit designs mean that some factions have greater access to things like AP whereas others have HE type of weapons. This idea would have to have been added and designed from the ground up into the game, not simply tacked on, because you'd then have to design ALL units to properly inflict the proper amount of respective damage types to vehicles.

Healing crews is a good idea, but requiring you to leave them at base is a very bad one. This just means that HE rounds will severely debilitate a player's ability to fight, because your full health KT needs to sit at base for the crew to relax while massive upkeep and popcap prevents you from using other units to do the work. Why bother using Jacksons when spamming Sherman HE rounds will abandon KTs, or at least force OKW to never use them? You'd just promote a gameplay where people spam light vehicles, or better yet, back to Volksspam.

And knowing Relic, explosives being the HE side of things means we get wonky results like hand grenades abandoning Tigers. Let's face it, that's going to happen, I mean we still have things like Combined Arms exploit, veterancy issues with units, mortars performing way more powerful than intended, etc.
8 Jul 2016, 13:34 PM
#5
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Ok let's count the explosive round in the game : Sherman and ................
8 Jul 2016, 14:02 PM
#6
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2016, 13:26 PMnee



The two health bar is not that complex if the current UI is changed. It just like protoss in starcraft, you have barrier bar and health bar.

The idea of resting them at base would only work for at least three run, which is rarely. Moreover, if we change healing from number to percentage, KT crew would restore as fast as a Sherman crew.
8 Jul 2016, 14:08 PM
#7
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

lol, relic can't make basic shit work, you are very naive thinking they can do anything like that.
nee
8 Jul 2016, 14:37 PM
#8
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216


The two health bar is not that complex if the current UI is changed. It just like protoss in starcraft, you have barrier bar and health bar.
I wasn't talking about UI, I was talking about how they would work as a mechanic and in gameplay.


The idea of resting them at base would only work for at least three run, which is rarely. Moreover, if we change healing from number to percentage, KT crew would restore as fast as a Sherman crew.
I don't know what "three run" means, so I'll just assume you still think it's a good idea. Again, leaving units at base when you have no way for them to heal faster is a bad idea, especially when it's tacked onto the necessity of repairing vehicles, which require micromanagement. If you want healing for crews, you just implement a way for them to benefit from medics or healing auras. THAT requires micromanagement, as well as using existing game mechanics (every faction has some form of healing).
8 Jul 2016, 14:43 PM
#9
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

would love to see somthing like this. it will most likely never happen. :( however the feature is already in the game sorta with weapon crews have 2hp bars. :D
8 Jul 2016, 18:46 PM
#10
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

lol, relic can't make basic shit work, you are very naive thinking they can do anything like that.


Then we, the modders will do the dirty work for them, like always.

eliw00d is already doing something like this with his mod "Fortress Europe" anyway.
8 Jul 2016, 19:02 PM
#11
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

Interesting mechanic, but will be difficult to make. Relic are too lazy for to "paint" new howitzer for OKW, so they just copy LeFH, not sure, that we will see something really new in CoH 2 soon.

And such mechanic of "2 health bars" will need to rebalance all vechiles in game, for to make that mechanic work nice. That's again time, forces, need to work... meh. Nobody will do it right now, no matter how sad is it.

But idea is interesting. If there will be CoH 3 - they should try to relase it there.
8 Jul 2016, 19:29 PM
#12
avatar of ROMEAT

Posts: 69 | Subs: 1

Ok let's count the explosive round in the game : Sherman and ................


And ISU-152 :D
8 Jul 2016, 19:31 PM
#13
avatar of Crystal

Posts: 97

Way too complicated.

I like the idea, but only in a mod. It can't be done in the official game.
8 Jul 2016, 19:37 PM
#14
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Ok let's count the explosive round in the game : Sherman and ................

Isn't like nearly everything that's not also AA and AI-focused explosive rounds? And even some of the AA too, really?
8 Jul 2016, 19:45 PM
#15
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2016, 19:29 PMROMEAT


And ISU-152 :D
what s dat an ancient relic of the past ?
9 Jul 2016, 00:53 AM
#16
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

Way too complicated.

I like the idea, but only in a mod. It can't be done in the official game.


I thought Relic would never do the radical changes they did in the latest patch but, here they are.

As Winston Churchill once said, Never say never.
9 Jul 2016, 01:24 AM
#17
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

As Winston Churchill once said, Never say never.

You sure about that one? I'm reading that was Dickens.

...and it's apparently a Justin Bieber song but that's neither here nor there.
9 Jul 2016, 01:38 AM
#18
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

They can improve abandons by removing them
9 Jul 2016, 02:18 AM
#19
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I like the idea, but I do think it is a tad over-complicated.

If we look at USF tanks and their crews as an example, we're already most of the way there.

If penetrating shots and various critical actions applied specific amounts of damage to those crews, you'd have a similar effect.

I think there's more than enough resources in the game engine, with things like conscript merge and basic reinforcing mechanics, to handle maintaining those crews. Whether or not these crews can hop out and/or repair their tanks is another story entirely.
9 Jul 2016, 04:32 AM
#20
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

Way too complicated mechanics.


I dont think so.
Crew weapons have a health bar underneath crew heath, so I cant see why you cant make the opposite for SOV
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