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russian armor

Rifle smoke and mortar, pick one.

Which would you pick out of the two to stay in the game?
Option Distribution Votes
47%
53%
Total votes: 32
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
28 Jun 2016, 06:51 AM
#1
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 923

So now, the Ami's seem to have far too many options when it comes to clearing MGs.

In the past smoke/nade was more than enough to clear MG42s and although I didn't like the mechanic of all rifle squads having smoke...


... its far more acceptable than the current state where the American T0 can have its cake and eat it too. With the addition of the mortar, Ami's can blob earlygame without punishment and their infantry scales well into the game.

So, IMO the solution would be getting rid of either the rifle smoke or the mortar (even if mortar got smoke rounds instead of rifles, that would be a lot better than everything having the ability to completely negate an MG42.)

What do you guys think?
28 Jun 2016, 06:54 AM
#2
avatar of Jackas4life
Social Media Manager Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 486 | Subs: 1

Personally I say keep the mortar but do what the competitive mod does, less range, less damage, but more accurate and higher rof compared to the other mortars.

It wasn't a model killer (unless they were already low) and it was great to deal with MGs (due to it being a mortar) and the fact that the higher rof actually allows mortar smoke to work even more effective.
28 Jun 2016, 06:58 AM
#3
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

I think both are fine.

Mortar is something you get early in preparation for MG spam or garrison heavy maps. Nades are something you get later on to help your rifles keep mobility, but they really aren't a true counter to MGs since they can always reposition.

Once the nerfs for the mortar come through all these complaints will end. People are just frustrated from getting recked by an OP unit.
28 Jun 2016, 07:10 AM
#4
avatar of A big guy 4u

Posts: 168

False dichotomy. This poll is fundamentally rigged since there is no option to keep both.
28 Jun 2016, 07:11 AM
#5
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

Noooooooooooppppppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeee

l2p nub
28 Jun 2016, 07:12 AM
#6
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2016, 07:11 AMGenObi
Noooooooooooppppppppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeee

l2p nub


Playercard please.
28 Jun 2016, 07:12 AM
#7
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

How come USF cant have some other sort of early game counter to garrisons and MGs other than grenades all the time?
28 Jun 2016, 07:14 AM
#8
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

Right here nub

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198012278664

I expect yours in next minute or your just a nub like i suspected as much.\

Edit:

after waiting a few minutes he "conveniently went off line"

My response is Get Rekt Nub
28 Jun 2016, 07:24 AM
#9
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13504 | Subs: 6

Both, anyone who have ever played USF out of placement knows how engaging and interesting their early game is, anything that adds up to variety in BO is much welcomed bonus...
28 Jun 2016, 07:47 AM
#10
avatar of Chet

Posts: 46

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2016, 07:24 AMKatitof
Both, anyone who have ever played USF out of placement knows how engaging and interesting their early game is, anything that adds up to variety in BO is much welcomed bonus...


Then lets see a patch so Ostheer infantry doesnt get insta-slammed against riflemen please. MG is only significant early counter to USF rifleman squads. That is now nullified without any counterpoise.
28 Jun 2016, 07:52 AM
#11
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13504 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2016, 07:47 AMChet


Then lets see a patch so Ostheer infantry doesnt get insta-slammed against riflemen please. MG is only significant early counter to USF rifleman squads. That is now nullified without any counterpoise.


Sure, will that patch also lock T1 at T2 costs and replace HMG with grens at T0, so there actually is a logical excuse for grens to stand up to rifles?

Ost is meant since day one to rely on combined arms of grens+supporting units.
If you believe that grens alone will carry you, well, that doesn't even work against conscripts anymore and is not supposed to, you have greatest possibilities of combined arms from first seconds of the game for a reason.

If you can't manage the MG, then use that every single USF player is crying about-the sniper, which USF has no counter for, enjoy the bleed and sustain map control.

Grens will never stand up to rifles, because they are not meant to.
28 Jun 2016, 08:02 AM
#12
avatar of RealName

Posts: 276

Personally I say keep the mortar but do what the competitive mod does, less range, less damage, but more accurate and higher rof compared to the other mortars.

It wasn't a model killer (unless they were already low) and it was great to deal with MGs (due to it being a mortar) and the fact that the higher rof actually allows mortar smoke to work even more effective.


+1

balance mod USF mortar was already good. lower range meant you had to be a bit more aggressive with the mortar. An aggressive mortar for an aggressive faction, yes?. And now that nade range has been nerfed, I feel like smokes are more or less in a good spot.
28 Jun 2016, 08:18 AM
#13
avatar of Chet

Posts: 46

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2016, 07:52 AMKatitof


Sure, will that patch also lock T1 at T2 costs and replace HMG with grens at T0, so there actually is a logical excuse for grens to stand up to rifles?

Ost is meant since day one to rely on combined arms of grens+supporting units.
If you believe that grens alone will carry you, well, that doesn't even work against conscripts anymore and is not supposed to, you have greatest possibilities of combined arms from first seconds of the game for a reason.

If you can't manage the MG, then use that every single USF player is crying about-the sniper, which USF has no counter for, enjoy the bleed and sustain map control.

Grens will never stand up to rifles, because they are not meant to.


Then remove the USF mortar. MG is instawiped due to its over-effectiveness.
28 Jun 2016, 08:40 AM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13504 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2016, 08:18 AMChet


Then remove the USF mortar. MG is instawiped due to its over-effectiveness.

That is stat balance issue.
Did we removed grens from the game during March Deployment patch in 2014, when you could suck at the game and still have 50+ winstreak due to grens a-moving everything? I still remember when during that time I gave an hour long game to Jesulin exclusively because super OP terminator grens carried me, not because I was such great player on Jesulins level.

To me the USF mortar SHOULD fire quickly OR be really accurate, set up and pack quicker then other mortars, but have only 60 range, so its used offensively only and keep the relevance of pack howi.
28 Jun 2016, 10:51 AM
#15
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1890

Personally I say keep the mortar but do what the competitive mod does, less range, less damage, but more accurate and higher rof compared to the other mortars.

It wasn't a model killer (unless they were already low) and it was great to deal with MGs (due to it being a mortar) and the fact that the higher rof actually allows mortar smoke to work even more effective.


Technically RoF has nothing to do with barrage, barrages are abilities and the amount of shells per barrage is an independent ability. I think
28 Jun 2016, 13:30 PM
#16
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 996

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2016, 07:12 AMmedhood
How come USF cant have some other sort of early game counter to garrisons and MGs other than grenades all the time?


You and GenObi = clearly USF fanboys. Just think about it 3-4 riflemen squads get smoke + plus the mortar. That's more than any other faction. What other mainline inf even gets that ridiculous ability. And don't complain about the tech cost of nades. It's still very cheap. I know what you're thinking. You want to get out that Stuart EVEN faster when it already comes out faster than the t70 and has more health and can kill light vehicles better. That's just greedy. Be happy that USF received a mortar. But a mortar with smoke? Oh please. How would you feel if Ostheer had puma in tier 2? Would you complain and whine that you can't bully Ostheer anymore with the stuart?
28 Jun 2016, 13:39 PM
#17
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

USF mortar should be toned down gradually, but knowing relic they will overnerf the unit into a useless piece of shit. No doubt it will receive a double/triple nerf to scatter/accuracy or something and be as useless as the US mortar halftrack.
28 Jun 2016, 13:43 PM
#18
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 996

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jun 2016, 08:40 AMKatitof

That is stat balance issue.
Did we removed grens from the game during March Deployment patch in 2014, when you could suck at the game and still have 50+ winstreak due to grens a-moving everything? I still remember when during that time I gave an hour long game to Jesulin exclusively because super OP terminator grens carried me, not because I was such great player on Jesulins level.

To me the USF mortar SHOULD fire quickly OR be really accurate, set up and pack quicker then other mortars, but have only 60 range, so its used offensively only and keep the relevance of pack howi.


Lol other arguments can be made for the Ostheer mortar since its dealing with bigger squad sizes, it should fire even faster and more accurately than the USF mortar. USF have a pack howi. If you want something that can reliably snipe infantry at range, get the pack howi, the idea of the USF mortar is bs imo but if we have to live with it, the USF mortar should do less damage and/or be less accurate and not kill an mg in 2-3 shells. Some of the shells should actually miss (which is rare due to the bug.) The mortar should have the role of forcing the mg to reposition so the riflemen can swarm in and attack it when it's caught out of position. With just vet 2 the mortar outperforms the pack howi even if it has less range. And yes the mortar can get vet 2 a few mins after u have the tech for pak howis. The danger of the USF mortar is that it also squad wipes grens and pgrens with a single shell with just a little vet. That's the riflemen's job. Does an Ost mortar ever wipe a full health rifle squad with one shell? No.
28 Jun 2016, 13:47 PM
#19
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 996

I think both are fine.

Mortar is something you get early in preparation for MG spam or garrison heavy maps. Nades are something you get later on to help your rifles keep mobility, but they really aren't a true counter to MGs since they can always reposition.

Once the nerfs for the mortar come through all these complaints will end. People are just frustrated from getting recked by an OP unit.


What's faster, a mg reposition or a grenade going off. The simple thought of eating a grenade has most Ostheer players doing a preemptive reposition when they see rifles crawling a little too close but that defeats the purpose of the mg, since its unable to suppress.
28 Jun 2016, 13:49 PM
#20
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621



You and GenObi = clearly USF fanboys. Just think about it 3-4 riflemen squads get smoke + plus the mortar. That's more than any other faction. What other mainline inf even gets that ridiculous ability. And don't complain about the tech cost of nades. It's still very cheap. I know what you're thinking. You want to get out that Stuart EVEN faster when it already comes out faster than the t70 and has more health and can kill light vehicles better. That's just greedy. Be happy that USF received a mortar. But a mortar with smoke? Oh please. How would you feel if Ostheer had puma in tier 2? Would you complain and whine that you can't bully Ostheer anymore with the stuart?

Wehrmacht has Flamethrowers, Sniper and Mortar, Soviets have Molotovs, Sniper, Flamethrowers, Satchels and Mortar, OKW has Incendiary Nades and ISG (Doesnt have to deal with Early MGs that much fortunately), UKF has UC and Sniper all the while USF only had Grenades in the early game to rush out and clear garrisons or smoke MGs so why doesnt USF deserve 1 alternative in the early game?
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