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USF Blobs

25 Jun 2016, 00:30 AM
#21
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

Ok here is a little fun fact with those StG upgrades. It is still best to use them at long range. They benefit the most. the StGs upgrade buff their long range power a bit, their medium range power a bit more, and their short range more than a bit. The best way to deal with them is to just let them walk up to your StG volks as you will stand to out damage them.
25 Jun 2016, 00:31 AM
#22
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414



Omfg. What is it with you and mg34 requiring tech.

The window of opportunity where usf can actually build enough rifles and then blob before okw can build an mg34 is quite small.

If usf dors blob to okw cut off it is really easy to just take his cut off with pio or kubel.

It is blatantly obvious you are one of these players that wants to open with mgs because you cannot micro or play well enough to be competive at the start of a game.



Like most allied builds we are seeing now. UKF and SU both rush multiple mgs. OKW has a hard time with dealing with mgs regularily.
25 Jun 2016, 00:34 AM
#23
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414

Ok here is a little fun fact with those StG upgrades. It is still best to use them at long range. They benefit the most. the StGs upgrade buff their long range power a bit, their medium range power a bit more, and their short range more than a bit. The best way to deal with them is to just let them walk up to your StG volks as you will stand to out damage them.


That's not true. I've been testing this alot and volks are better at range without the upgrade. The dps on paper is better but there is a disconnect in the performance. I'm considering making a video to show that cons do better against volks with stgs at long range.
25 Jun 2016, 05:20 AM
#24
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


No you move on usf fanboy,enough from your posts which are always the same.Hint:say nothing.
OP is right usf bazooka blobs are proliferating.


+1 Bazookas are also dirt cheap and before u say that zooks < schreck, I'll say that the penetration is lacking slightly, but the rate of fire makes up for it. And also threatens light vehicles much more cuz of that rate of fire. And u can choose to single upgrade it unlike OH double upgrade. And also, the fact that a single zook rifle squad can chase away my OH p4 is ridiculous cuz one penetrating will be enough to let the at nade damage the engine. Zooks penetrate half the time on mediums and many USF players mix zooks and bars so most USF inf will have a zook and can threaten armor. And the buff to USF at gun and Jackson is another threat making it harder to use axis armor.
25 Jun 2016, 05:41 AM
#25
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414



+1 Bazookas are also dirt cheap and before u say that zooks < schreck, I'll say that the penetration is lacking slightly, but the rate of fire makes up for it. And also threatens light vehicles much more cuz of that rate of fire. And u can choose to single upgrade it unlike OH double upgrade. And also, the fact that a single zook rifle squad can chase away my OH p4 is ridiculous cuz one penetrating will be enough to let the at nade damage the engine. Zooks penetrate half the time on mediums and many USF players mix zooks and bars so most USF inf will have a zook and can threaten armor. And the buff to USF at gun and Jackson is another threat making it harder to use axis armor.


Plus 2 zooks are about the same price as a schreck.
25 Jun 2016, 05:46 AM
#26
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

remove terminator vet on rifles and limit lmg to 1 just like other factions...????? vet 3 rifle rape even obersoldaten i mean lol why does usf get such strong mainline infy
25 Jun 2016, 05:51 AM
#27
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
remove terminator vet on rifles and limit lmg to 1 just like other factions...????? vet 3 rifle rape even obersoldaten i mean lol why does usf get such strong mainline infy


This problem is the biggest reason why OH vs USF is so one-sided. Everyone says just get a sniper. LOL 1/3 of the maps suck for sniper (poor sightlines). And the bars can easily outbleed the bleed that the sniper can create. Now USF get mortars?! WTF Relic. More bleed against the already beleaguered OH. And of course the light vehicles further the bleed. And finally Relic nerfs the sniper. Is all that really needed? OH is completely UP even with the so called buffs that it received in tech costs. The main problem is the units' performance for OH didn't change (only the brumbar, and who uses a brumbarr these days in 1v1.)
25 Jun 2016, 06:04 AM
#28
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

relic only listens to what community whines about the most thats it they care about money,not the game its clear alright.I listed all the problems day 1 wrong about the brits when they came out,everyone said m crazy but every single thing i said about brits was true and it took relic 6 months to fix what i listed,everyone is welcome to read my post history around brit launch and can see the patches after that
25 Jun 2016, 06:27 AM
#29
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

We've had the "Volks Blob w/ Shreks counter everything!" threads, we've had the "rifles w/ flamers counter everything!" threads, we've had the "Obers w/ LMGs just a-move to win" threads, etc. etc.

For some reason no one wants to address the core problem, which is that blobbing doesn't promote combined arms usage or micro. People always end up saying "blobbing isn't bad, just learn the counters", but there's always a thread later on where some sort of blob meta is incredibly powerful and it always ends up getting patched out, while the community says "yea, X-blobs are finally fixed!". Then the meta evolves and there's a new blob combo.

Let's just skip it and remove blobbing. Increase AOE suppression rates and add negative zeal. It worked in CoH1, and it will work here.
25 Jun 2016, 06:33 AM
#30
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2



Omfg. What is it with you and mg34 requiring tech.

The window of opportunity where usf can actually build enough rifles and then blob before okw can build an mg34 is quite small.

If usf dors blob to okw cut off it is really easy to just take his cut off with pio or kubel.

It is blatantly obvious you are one of these players that wants to open with mgs because you cannot micro or play well enough to be competive at the start of a game.



I couldn't really give less of a fuck about competitive to be honest, it's just pissing me off that if my entire team goes OKW in a custom game we're fucked without MGs until we plop down a rushed HQ truck.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, I do have mods that change this but everytime Relic updates the game they break pretty much all of the mods, so I can't enjoy the game fully without being arsed to fix my mods all of the damn time until they cut support for the game then? That's complete bullshit, I could get 1 CP for the call in faster than I could plop down an HQ truck, not to mention now that infantry spawns from their respective buildings I could be waiting 2 mins to get it to where I need it if the map is long/big enough, well it's not 2 mins but you get my point. System is faulty, that's it, this update was geared solely towards competitive with complete disregard to the larger part of the community which like me couldn't give less of w fuck about competitive, some balance between the 2 must be stuck, we all paid equally and are equal players thus we should be treated as such, I'm not "below" you for not being competitive, on the contrary, I can mod the game and make my own balance because I know how it works compared to most people here.
25 Jun 2016, 07:20 AM
#31
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705



+1 Bazookas are also dirt cheap and before u say that zooks < schreck, I'll say that the penetration is lacking slightly, but the rate of fire makes up for it. And also threatens light vehicles much more cuz of that rate of fire. And u can choose to single upgrade it unlike OH double upgrade. And also, the fact that a single zook rifle squad can chase away my OH p4 is ridiculous cuz one penetrating will be enough to let the at nade damage the engine. Zooks penetrate half the time on mediums and many USF players mix zooks and bars so most USF inf will have a zook and can threaten armor. And the buff to USF at gun and Jackson is another threat making it harder to use axis armor.


This.
25 Jun 2016, 08:46 AM
#32
avatar of Kamzil118

Posts: 455

remove terminator vet on rifles and limit lmg to 1 just like other factions...????? vet 3 rifle rape even obersoldaten i mean lol why does usf get such strong mainline infy

Their vet was the result of Relic buffing their survival from the curse of manpower bleed since the beginning of WFA. I would say they overbuffed them and toned it back afterwards.

Knowing how Relic has a thing for making some things a complete disaster, removing the veterancy would probably bring back the USF's notorious manpower bleed. So I suggest that the riflemen's survival vet doesn't get touched.

Maybe changing their accuracy or the weapon profile of the BARs and Bazookas would be a more reasonable approach.
25 Jun 2016, 09:37 AM
#33
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721


Their vet was the result of Relic buffing their survival from the curse of manpower bleed since the beginning of WFA. I would say they overbuffed them and toned it back afterwards.

Knowing how Relic has a thing for making some things a complete disaster, removing the veterancy would probably bring back the USF's notorious manpower bleed. So I suggest that the riflemen's survival vet doesn't get touched.

Maybe changing their accuracy or the weapon profile of the BARs and Bazookas would be a more reasonable approach.

I dont beleive there was much manpower bleed if there was now its gone due to new patch changes but still what they can do is either keep the recived accuracy buff but remove the weapon accruracy buff that they also get with vet 3 or just replace received accuracy with reduced refinforcment cost both ways u tone them down and they dont bleed.
25 Jun 2016, 09:44 AM
#34
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17909 | Subs: 8

Maybe if the MG34 didn't require an HQ truck to be called in... you could deal with blobs more effectively? Idk just throwing it out there.

You realize that blobs don't exist before that time, becasue people cap the map?
25 Jun 2016, 09:46 AM
#35
avatar of Kamzil118

Posts: 455


I dont beleive there was much manpower bleed if there was now its gone due to new patch changes but still what they can do is either keep the recived accuracy buff but remove the weapon accruracy buff that they also get with vet 3 or just replace received accuracy with reduced refinforcment cost both ways u tone them down and they dont bleed.


I'd say remove the accuracy buff in a preview mod and let us see from there.
25 Jun 2016, 10:10 AM
#36
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

FFS, dont you guys get it?

Allies are allowed to have anti everything blobs, axis arnt.
25 Jun 2016, 10:41 AM
#37
avatar of Svanh

Posts: 181

Let's just skip it and remove blobbing. Increase AOE suppression rates and add negative zeal. It worked in CoH1, and it will work here.

Negative zeal, as it has been implemented in the past and as Relic would implement it, isn't the best mechanic. Its implementation in CoH1 and mods is generally through a stacking debuff for each additional friendly unit within an arbitrary distance of a squad. The problem is that this punishes both blobbers and any player who decides to place a squad in cover (i.e., micro) that is slightly too close to another friendly squad (especially when the debuff is triggered by a single stray model), which is especially nasty if you have to fight through a chokepoint. This also hits any squad using a friendly vehicle for cover (rare as it might be).

The reason players latch on to Volksgrenadier, Bazooka Riflemen, and PIAT blobs is because infantry are durable enough against medium vehicles that a few squads of AT infantry can completely prevent a Panzer IV, Cromwell, T-34/76, or Sherman from making any impact whatsoever. The way to remove this is simply to make infantry AT less common by increasing the price (see Panzergrenadiers), adding trade-offs (see Panzergrenadiers) or finding a way to discourage players from having too many AT squads at a time (see Panzergrenadiers).

This has already been done for Volksgrenadiers of course.

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 10:10 AMAlphrum
FFS, dont you guys get it?

Allies are allowed to have anti everything blobs, axis arnt.

Is it really necessary to start a world war in every thread? :(
25 Jun 2016, 11:41 AM
#38
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 474


It is blatantly obvious you are one of these players that wants to open with mgs because you cannot micro or play well enough to be competive at the start of a game.


So basically everyone playing ost cannot micro?
25 Jun 2016, 18:15 PM
#39
avatar of A big guy 4u

Posts: 168

Yet another blobberkomando whine thread.

It's all about 6 panzerschrecks chasing a sherman because OKW players cannot snare (faust) and kill with AT guns, because they spent 3 years with the idea that Anti-tank strategy is just running around the map.
25 Jun 2016, 21:14 PM
#40
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 10:41 AMSvanh
The problem is that this punishes both blobbers and any player who decides to place a squad in cover (i.e., micro) that is slightly too close to another friendly squad (especially when the debuff is triggered by a single stray model), which is especially nasty if you have to fight through a chokepoint.


While I can see that being a problem, fixing it wouldn't be too hard. Have a UI indicator over the squad icon that shows how many squads are 'too close', and possibly have the de-buff not apply to squads in green cover (this would allow for defensive play).

The stray model issue is definitely a harder problem to solve, and I really don't have a reliable solution for it.

This also hits any squad using a friendly vehicle for cover (rare as it might be).

The de-buff would only apply between infantry. A vehicle would not have a de-buff aura, nor would it receive a de-buff.

The reason players latch on to Volksgrenadier, Bazooka Riflemen, and PIAT blobs is because infantry are durable enough against medium vehicles that a few squads of AT infantry can completely prevent a Panzer IV, Cromwell, T-34/76, or Sherman from making any impact whatsoever. The way to remove this is simply to make infantry AT less common by increasing the price (see Panzergrenadiers), adding trade-offs (see Panzergrenadiers) or finding a way to discourage players from having too many AT squads at a time (see Panzergrenadiers).

This has already been done for Volksgrenadiers of course.


The problem is balancing it for both small and large sizes. If squad AT is nerfed to allow for larger blobs to not erase medium tanks, then light vehicles would be unstoppable in the early-game period.

Increasing the price means delaying AT arrival, giving early-game vehicles too much control, as well as making high MP-bleed factions incredibly weak (since now they'd have higher Muni-bleed as well).

I do agree that PGrens are probably the solution. Squad AT needs to be assigned to a single, specialized squad that is too costly to be used in the AI role, but cost effective in the AT role. The problem is, this would require a fairly large redesign, with things like bazookas, Piats and even the new Pio-Shreks being removed entirely, and replaced with specific AT-squads.

Of course this would have add-on problems, such as Rifles specializing purely into AI, making rifle blobs even more potent.

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