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I don't get why Brits are still receiving buffs

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28 May 2016, 10:58 AM
#21
avatar of Wehrwietse

Posts: 23

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 10:53 AMButcher
Please provide arguments instead of throwing out a meaningless phrase. You are on a forum to discuss after all. That is some great elementary school level of bringing your point across you´ve got there. That won´t bring you far in life though. I made points and you lack arguments it seems.


It's hard to argue against facts ;)
28 May 2016, 11:06 AM
#22
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1737

Just for my interest, why are so many people on this forum arguing that Brits may have their bullshit stuff, because OKW is also bullshit?

The fact that one faction is dumb (OKW) does not justify that other factions are also dumb (Brits).

That said I like to play against Sovs+USF in 1v1 and 2v2 but seeing that an enemy plays Brits (especially in 2v2) is extremely annoying and puts most of the fun out of the game.

Brits are simply cancer. Maybe OKW is too, but then there's only garbage Ostheer left which is lacking advantages. Allies have 3 strong factions while Axis only have one (OKW) and another one that still lives in the past (Ostheer).
28 May 2016, 11:07 AM
#23
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 10:53 AMButcher
Please provide arguments instead of throwing out a meaningless phrase. You are on a forum to discuss after all. That is some great elementary school level of bringing your point across you´re showing there. That won´t bring you far in life though. I made points and you lack arguments it seems.


I will.

You whine about Brits, while OKW with Schwerer, FRP with meds and blob supported with ISGs, with lategame powerful units is here for almost 2 years.

What you described can be easily used for OKW as well.
28 May 2016, 11:08 AM
#24
avatar of Super Vegeta

Posts: 84 | Subs: 1

Just for my interest, why are so many people on this forum arguing that Brits may have their bullshit stuff, because OKW is also bullshit?

The fact that one faction is dumb (OKW) does not justify that other factions are also dumb (Brits).

That said I like to play against Sovs+USF in 1v1 and 2v2 but seeing that an enemy plays Brits (especially in 2v2) is extremely annoying and puts most of the fun out of the game.

Brits are simply cancer. Maybe OKW is too, but then there's only garbage Ostheer left.


yeah but the patch will rework the OKW so they can't spam panzershreck cancer anymore, brits on the other hand still have their gimmicky cancerous units that require no micro, have invincibility force fields and can insta wipe ostheer squads lol.

Brits still feel like the superior version OKW once was.
28 May 2016, 11:14 AM
#25
avatar of Wehrwietse

Posts: 23

OKW are also though to beat, that's true. But at least they are fun to play against. I can't say the same about UKF.

IMHO all factions should be viable and that's just not the case right now. The fact that you have to have a mortar halftrack doctrine in your ostheer loadout to have a chance against brits is ridiculous.
28 May 2016, 11:17 AM
#26
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1064



I will.

You whine about Brits, while OKW with Schwerer, FRP with meds and blob supported with ISGs, with lategame powerful units is here for almost 2 years.

What you described can be easily used for OKW as well.
We were talking about Brits. I´ll redirect you to Highfives post above yours as I agree with him there. Two wrongs don´t make a right.

Secondly the emplacement cancer is imo far worse and easier to pull off than ISG + Schwerer. Simply because Bofors can be set up in way more dangerous places. Reason for that is the low cost 15 vs 120 fuel, the loss of a tech structure for OKW and the brace function. In no way can the emplacement cancer be compared to OKW (which however is also overperforming vs US and Soviets).
28 May 2016, 11:21 AM
#27
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 11:17 AMButcher
We were talking about Brits. I´ll redirect you to Highfives post above yours as I agree with him there. Two wrongs don´t make a right.

Secondly the emplacement cancer is imo far worse and easier to pull off than ISG + Schwerer. Simply because Bofors can be set up in way more dangerous places. Reason for that is the low cost 15 vs 120 fuel, the loss of a tech structure for OKW and the brace function. In no way can the emplacement cancer be compared to OKW (which however is also overperforming vs US and Soviets).


They can be compared in every way.

Both bofors and schwerer are denying all infantry play. No flanks, auto sniping of retreat, free AA.

ISG is superior to pit since it can move and react in different places.

Bofors is a unit. It eats pop, upkeep, does not allow to get AEC.

Sure, but whining about Brits without taking a look at OKW is showing your attitude.
Rework both or leave both.
28 May 2016, 11:21 AM
#28
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1737

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 11:17 AMButcher
We were talking about Brits. I´ll redirect you to Highfives post above yours as I agree with him there. Two wrongs don´t make a right.

Secondly the emplacement cancer is imo far worse and easier to pull off than ISG + Schwerer. Simply because Bofors can be set up in way more dangerous places. Reason for that is the low cost 15 vs 120 fuel, the loss of a tech structure for OKW and the brace function. In no way can the emplacement cancer be compared to OKW (which however is also overperforming vs US and Soviets).


While I agree to your post, I must add that the Bofors itself costs 280 MP + 30 Fuel (you mentioned 15), the research itself costs 15.



They can be compared in every way.

Both bofors and schwerer are denying all infantry play. No flanks, auto sniping of retreat, free AA.

ISG is superior to pit since it can move and react in different places.

Bofors is a unit. It eats pop, upkeep, does not allow to get AEC.

Sure, but whining about Brits without taking a look at OKW is showing your attitude.
Rework both or leave both.


The thing in my opinion is the lack of micro the Bofors needs. You won't see a Bofors alone, there is a Mortar beneath and a forward retreat point in 90% of the cases. The mortar deals permanent damage while the ISG has to be moved to keep alive. Meanwhile the Brit can concentrate on other parts of the map while the OKW player cannot.
28 May 2016, 11:24 AM
#29
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

1. Advanced cancer need nerf.
2. Comet will receive side armor and vet 1 ability nerf, where exactly is buffs?
3. Grenade throwing ability have even shorter range than infantry grenades, wasn't churchill grenades nerfed already?
4. Avre is crap.
28 May 2016, 11:32 AM
#30
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 741 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 10:53 AMButcher
Please provide arguments instead of throwing out a meaningless phrase. You are on a forum to discuss after all. That is some great elementary school level of bringing your point across you´re showing there. That won´t bring you far in life though. I made points and you lack arguments it seems.


Sure, usually I don't deal with such extremely biased posts since it's mostly fruitless to discuss with such people, but if you insist...

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 09:52 AMButcher
I´ll join. Brits changed Coh2 to the worst.


The blatant OP-ness of OKW from the very start and their 1.5 year dominance in everything above 1v1 can just be ignored right?

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 09:52 AMButcher

It´s just an accumulation of abusive non fun features (emplacements, tulips, a sniper that counters light vehicles) the best tanks in the game hands down (Croc + Comet) and strong infantry (Bren or Piat blob + 5 man upgrade). It is Ostheer on steroids. Thus Ostheer can´t participate in the game effectively. This can´t be balanced in any possible scenario.


Emplacements are ok on their own, only certain commanders gave unbalanced advantages. Tulips are not hard to evade and avoid. The best tanks are still Axis sided. The Panther outperforms the Comet in veterancy bonuses, cost and unit synergy. The crocodile is like an overpriced KV-8 to feed the enemy tanks vet.
The best medium tank destroyer is still the JP4 with superior veterancy and survivability. The OKW P4 becomes the best Anti-Infantry medium with vet. The Stug is the most cost efficient tank destroyer. The KT is non-doctrinal and one of the deadliest foes for tanks and infantry alike. JT and Elefant are just blatantly OP on many maps and negate any kind of armor play. And then there are doctrinal aura tanks with +50% dmg abilities or 20% damage reduction.

Obersoldaten are still the best anti-infantry when gaining veterancy. OKW Schrecks are cancerous since day 1.

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 09:52 AMButcher

The really retarded point is that Coh2 was about mobility. Now there is a faction that can sit around and break the concept of Coh2 with superior defensive tools. It would be fine if the Brit player was punished for sitting around. But he gets rewarded with superior lategame. Thus being a dick and sitting around on your lazy ass is rewarded with a likely win. The British faction encourages bad gameplay.


--> see Australian Magic's post

28 May 2016, 11:35 AM
#31
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2


The thing in my opinion is the lack of micro the Bofors needs. You won't see a Bofors alone, there is a Mortar beneath and a forward retreat point in 90% of the cases. The mortar deals permanent damage while the ISG has to be moved to keep alive. Meanwhile the Brit can concentrate on other parts of the map while the OKW player cannot.



If you count Bofors, Pit, Assembly+Retreat I belive Brits player won't be able to focus on other part of the map since he invested everything in static units and assembly.
28 May 2016, 11:52 AM
#32
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593

Just for my interest, why are so many people on this forum arguing that Brits may have their bullshit stuff, because OKW is also bullshit?

The fact that one faction is dumb (OKW) does not justify that other factions are also dumb (Brits).

That said I like to play against Sovs+USF in 1v1 and 2v2 but seeing that an enemy plays Brits (especially in 2v2) is extremely annoying and puts most of the fun out of the game.

Brits are simply cancer. Maybe OKW is too, but then there's only garbage Ostheer left which is lacking advantages. Allies have 3 strong factions while Axis only have one (OKW) and another one that still lives in the past (Ostheer).


+1
28 May 2016, 12:30 PM
#33
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

Just for my interest, why are so many people on this forum arguing that Brits may have their bullshit stuff, because OKW is also bullshit?

The fact that one faction is dumb (OKW) does not justify that other factions are also dumb (Brits).

That said I like to play against Sovs+USF in 1v1 and 2v2 but seeing that an enemy plays Brits (especially in 2v2) is extremely annoying and puts most of the fun out of the game.

Brits are simply cancer. Maybe OKW is too, but then there's only garbage Ostheer left which is lacking advantages. Allies have 3 strong factions while Axis only have one (OKW) and another one that still lives in the past (Ostheer).


Basically that's the best summary for this thread. Just because the devs took some unfortunate decisions back in WFA, it doesn't mean that the game has to turn into a race-to-the-bottom.

Having insane-range emplacements is annoying. Having great tanks on top of that seems like rubbing salt in the wound.

Unfortunately, the direction that the balance patch seems to be taking will make Brit-play even more static:
- Nerfing the mobile assets of UKF
- No non-doctrinal indirect fire support for the late-game
- Tommies :snfPeter:
- No meaningful nerfs to emplacements (range, auto-heal, brace)

Thus, brace yourselves for another 2 exciting months of emplacement-spam-to-comet-spam.

@OP
The best way to discover a faction's weaknesses is to actually play that faction. Try playing 10 games as UKF without building any emplacements. Then, you will get a clearer idea about what really needs to be nerfed and what needs to be buffed.

What's more important, is that you will get a clearer opinion about what needs to change so that we can make emplacements for UKF optional (and, thus, nerf them).
28 May 2016, 15:36 PM
#34
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Stuff


OP this is your first post so I will be a little gentle, but please spend time playing all factions before jumping onto the balance train suggestions. It takes an enormous amount of knowledge and skill to balance these factions.

Brits are bad for gameplay in many ways but they are also not just getting buffs across the board in the next patch.

If you need help with strats go to the state office and the faction you are looking for help with.
28 May 2016, 16:06 PM
#35
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414



OP this is your first post so I will be a little gentle, but please spend time playing all factions before jumping onto the balance train suggestions. It takes an enormous amount of knowledge and skill to balance these factions.

Brits are bad for gameplay in many ways but they are also not just getting buffs across the board in the next patch.

If you need help with strats go to the state office and the faction you are looking for help with.


Everything the brits have is better, if not by stats then performance.

Comets>Panther in both cost and performance
Cromwell>P4 in both cost and performance
Bofors>everything below P4 in obth cost and performance
Mortar pit>every other Mortar in both cost and performance
6 pounder>all other at guns in both cost and performance

OKW had it's teeth removed a long time ago. Remember Obersoldaten when they really were Ober. Bonus to hit retreating units, free mg, and could fire on the lmg on the move.

I'm trying to be objective about this topic but playing double brits in 2v2 is not fun at all.
28 May 2016, 16:09 PM
#36
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 May 2016, 16:06 PMsinthe


Everything the brits have is better, if not by stats then performance.

Comets>Panther in both cost and performance

Cromwell>P4 in both cost and performance
Bofors>everything below P4 in obth cost and performance
Mortar pit>every other Mortar in both cost and performance
6 pounder>all other at guns in both cost and performance

OKW had it's teeth removed a long time ago. Remember Obersoldaten when they really were Ober. Bonus to hit retreating units, free mg, and could fire on the lmg on the move.

I'm trying to be objective about this topic but playing double brits in 2v2 is not fun at all.


:luvDerp:
28 May 2016, 16:10 PM
#37
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414



OP this is your first post so I will be a little gentle, but please spend time playing all factions before jumping onto the balance train suggestions. It takes an enormous amount of knowledge and skill to balance these factions.

Brits are bad for gameplay in many ways but they are also not just getting buffs across the board in the next patch.

If you need help with strats go to the state office and the faction you are looking for help with.


Your dismissive attitude is an issue. The brits balance is obviously an issue. If it's not post a 2v2 against double brits using the simcity creep strategy.
28 May 2016, 16:39 PM
#38
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414



:luvDerp:


Explain to me how any of my statements are false.

For example Panther vs Comet
P C
Manpower cost 490 500
Fuel cost 200 185
Speed (max) 6.6 6.9
Armor 320 290
Rear armor 110 180
Target size 24 22
Reload time 7.38 6.28
Penetration 240 190
Accuracy .04/.06 .03/.06
scattermaxdist 8 4.2
Area distance 0.25 / 0.15 1.50 / 0.25
Area damage x 0.05 / 1.00 0.20 / 1.00
Moving accuracy 0.65 0.75


P4(okw) vs Cromwell

Cromwell has better penetration, AOE, moving accuarcy, 20mp cheaper, 40 fuel cheaper, faster, faster rotation, and a smaller target size.

P4 only really beats it in armour.

A King Tiger is target size 26. How is it that the target size of a p4 is only 4 below that and cromwell is 4 below the p4? or that a Comet is the same size as the P4?
28 May 2016, 16:55 PM
#39
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 523 | Subs: 1


ISG is superior to pit since it can move and react in different places.


true. it can shoot one time, 2s later its almost dead due to UP cancer pit. then react and move back to the healing station
28 May 2016, 16:56 PM
#40
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 523 | Subs: 1

i think we should simply ignore the australian troll. maybe he will get some better hobby. like playing with kangaroos or something
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