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Grenadier spam counter?

10 May 2016, 09:56 AM
#1
avatar of DALT11

Posts: 20

As British or American Forces, how do you counter the grenadier spam? I have mgs as soon as possible but it doesn't do any good because of the rifle grenade insta-wiping. Also, I have tried BARS and Brens, but still nothing. Even if I go with a light vehicle but that doesn't work because of phausts. I know everyone is going to say "get good, noob," but I'm not a noob I just don't know what else to do.
10 May 2016, 14:35 PM
#2
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1017 | Subs: 1

First of all, dodge the rifle nades ( watch out for the animation, don't clump your units, retreat if needed).

If the enemy spams grens with lmgs and nades he won't have a Pak or mines, so get an m20 or sth like that and kite the shit out of him. Additionally you can get an hmg into a house as rifle nades don't have burn damage.

Last but not least upgraded rifleman with vet are deadly, and if he does not have an mg42 you should have a good time
10 May 2016, 19:06 PM
#3
avatar of Kallipolan

Posts: 196

Remember that rifle grenades, like all grenades, do more damage if the unit is in cover, especially heavy cover. This is mostly because units in cover tend to bunch up, making the high damage portion of the grenade AOE cover more of the unit. To stop rifle grenades instawiping MGs, set them up in open ground and keep another squad nearby to make sure the Grenadiers can't just rush the MG team and shoot it to death.
10 May 2016, 19:10 PM
#4
avatar of DALT11

Posts: 20

Thanks guys! I'll be sure to use what you said and keep you updated.
11 May 2016, 14:22 PM
#5
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 554

Oh, and watch out for any Grenadier that flanked you.

Rifle grenade really shines when there are no LoS between you and the unit that is going to fire the thing because a bush or building is in the way.

Then you suddenly lose a squad.
11 May 2016, 17:05 PM
#6
avatar of Kryptic

Posts: 61 | Subs: 2

Hey Dalt11,

I think the solution to this is actually very easy. As USF player your rifleman are better than grenadiers in the beginning. Just build 4 rifleman and you should be fine really, Keep the bar upgrades in mind since bars make a huge differance.

Once you get the Stuart out after the captain try to kite the grenadiers, which means engaging them but staying outside of faust range.

You really want to put the pressure on vs Ostheer, so don't make MG's at the start as USF. The ostheer player should be the one sitting back waiting to get a chance to stike back.

Late game the grenadiers can be a pain with vet 3 and LMG upgrades, Try to use Shermans with HE shells/ Pack howitzers to keep them at bay

What build order do you use vs Ostheer?

11 May 2016, 19:05 PM
#7
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2180 | Subs: 4

Remember that rifle grenades, like all grenades, do more damage if the unit is in cover, especially heavy cover.


Just going to clarify this, grenades do no extra damage to units in cover. Yellow cover provides no bonus defense from grenades, but causes you to bunch up, so you are particularly vulnerable in yellow cover. Heavy cover DOES provide defense against grenades, and will make them do only 50% damage. (Unless the grenade is thrown from a flanking angle) It can be worth it to just eat the grenade in heavy cover than to step out and attempt to dodge it if you know you are too late to fully escape the blast radius.
11 May 2016, 20:34 PM
#8
avatar of DALT11

Posts: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post11 May 2016, 17:05 PMKryptic
Hey Dalt11,

I think the solution to this is actually very easy. As USF player your rifleman are better than grenadiers in the beginning. Just build 4 rifleman and you should be fine really, Keep the bar upgrades in mind since bars make a huge differance.

Once you get the Stuart out after the captain try to kite the grenadiers, which means engaging them but staying outside of faust range.

You really want to put the pressure on vs Ostheer, so don't make MG's at the start as USF. The ostheer player should be the one sitting back waiting to get a chance to stike back.

Late game the grenadiers can be a pain with vet 3 and LMG upgrades, Try to use Shermans with HE shells/ Pack howitzers to keep them at bay

What build order do you use vs Ostheer?




I usually do 4 rifles. It just sucks because, recently, OKW volks 1 volley kill 2 models in medium cover. I'm not sure why, but it's really annoying. And yes, I do go with BARS but MG upgrade plus vet just kills me. I mean, I'm going to take everything everyone said and try it out.
12 May 2016, 01:17 AM
#9
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 422 | Subs: 2

Going LT into .50cal and then AA Halftrack will put a dent in his plans. Once you've upgraded to grenades, make sure to smoke him out of favorable positions such as heavy cover as to be able to move up and freely engage at close range which Rifles dominate at. If he uses lots of garrison do get a RE flamer or Assault Engies flamers to flush him out. Try to use LoS blocking and flanks to avoid Grenadiers high long range damage.
Cheers.
12 May 2016, 01:30 AM
#10
avatar of Jackas4life
Social Media Manager Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 486 | Subs: 1

Remember that rifle grenades, like all grenades, do more damage if the unit is in cover, especially heavy cover. This is mostly because units in cover tend to bunch up, making the high damage portion of the grenade AOE cover more of the unit. To stop rifle grenades instawiping MGs, set them up in open ground and keep another squad nearby to make sure the Grenadiers can't just rush the MG team and shoot it to death.


Actually green cover reduces ALL incoming damage by 50% unless flanked. This also includes nades. So if you got a full health squad you're best to take the nade in green cover instead of moving back slightly since you would have a higher chance of losing the squad.
12 May 2016, 01:31 AM
#11
avatar of easierwithaturret

Posts: 247

Grens really aren't that strong. They have good vet bonuses and rifle grenades are deadly but their small squad size and low durability is their weakness.

Early game: always try to engage grens at close range. Riflemen are superior to grens at short range, both in terms of DPS and because it denies them the ability to use their rifle nades. Don't just charge over open ground though, make use of cover and shot blockers to close the gap.

Mid game: If you have the resources get BARs, they will give you similar firepower to LMG grens and put you well ahead of those not upgraded. Grenades can be useful if he is using a lot of buildings and to impose a micro tax but a good player will dodge your nades most of the time. Doctrinal M1919s will give you a big advantage since they don't need fuel to upgrade.

A stuart can be effective if you use it wisely - be aggressive and try to wipe retreating squads but don't get too greedy lest you fall prey to faust ambushes or teller mines. The .50cal is rarely worth building, especially not against Ostheer.

Late game: Sherman with HE shells and .50cal upgrade is a huge threat to grens with their smaller squads. Make sure you keep it outside panzerfaust range. 2 shermans is better as it gives you more map control and allows you to tackle a p4 that you might otherwise struggle against, so really try to keep your first sherman alive (repair critical is very useful after mine strikes if you have riflemen to cover the crew). Continue to upgrade BARs as you get spare munitions. Rifle grenades are particularly troublesome at this point since squads become more dispersed, so be wary of engaging gren squads 1 on 1 at long range.

Where possible always try to wipe his vet squads. This will force him to replace them with fresh squads which are much easier to deal with. Vehicles are good for this but don't overextend too far - it's not worth sacrificing a sherman to kill a gren squad.
12 May 2016, 02:08 AM
#12
avatar of TheObersoldatenThatC

Posts: 42

M1919s anyone?
12 May 2016, 06:42 AM
#13
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1061

As UK you can try sniper, gren spam means low MP, bleed him to death and if he blob, try to bait him into Vickers, for late game Tommy with Bren is superior to gren.
14 May 2016, 02:49 AM
#14
avatar of DALT11

Posts: 20

Alright, thanks everyone. I'm doing a lot better against Wher. but now I'm having just as much trouble against volks. Even early game they seem to out shoot my rifles even at close range. All it takes is three squads moving as a group and they can take anything. I was thinking halftrack, but it's rough early game.
14 May 2016, 08:27 AM
#15
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1017 | Subs: 1

if you are talking about the game atm (and not the balance preview mod) i dont know how you manage to lose with rifles against volks at close range. rifles are MUCH stronger in early and upgraded they shred volks. it seems like you dont stand in cover, otherwise the fight is pretty much impossible to lose.
14 May 2016, 23:25 PM
#16
avatar of DALT11

Posts: 20

if you are talking about the game atm (and not the balance preview mod) i dont know how you manage to lose with rifles against volks at close range. rifles are MUCH stronger in early and upgraded they shred volks. it seems like you dont stand in cover, otherwise the fight is pretty much impossible to lose.


I mean that's what I thought too, but since the last patch I have been having trouble with it. Even in cover rifles lose to the volks. I think it's more of an accuracy issue than anything else
15 May 2016, 19:40 PM
#17
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1017 | Subs: 1

i dont think anything has changed since the last patch in regards to that matchup. maybe it was just bad luck.
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