the AOE buff is too much. It needed the HP buff but the more lethal AOE just allow the m8a1 to act as a sniper.
I say revert the AOE buff but keep the 400 hp for the axis doom cannon.
(preview mod) m8a1 scott
4 May 2016, 08:53 AM
#1
Posts: 1930
4 May 2016, 10:28 AM
#2
Posts: 673
All USF tanks are glass cannons. M36, Scott, Sherman is kinda that type too. It's just how they designed, don't think, that it will be right to change it.
Btw I don't see too much people using it, so I don't understand genesis of that problem.
Btw I don't see too much people using it, so I don't understand genesis of that problem.
4 May 2016, 11:48 AM
#3
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
I haven't built this unit in over 6 months now (mainly because it is one-shottable by Elefants etc). Thus, I am in no way qualified to comment on this.
However, I am still curious; how does the current m8a1 and the buffed m8a1 compare to:
- OST mortars
- Pack Howies
The reason that I am asking is that it seems that the m8a1 has a far shorter range (60). Moreover, since it is on wheels, it is snipeable by AT, tanks, Schrecks (which are hopefully on the way out). This makes the m8a1 a babysit unit on a faction that already struggles with babysitting on the late-game (Jackson flotilla, etc).
The way I see it, if I wanted a set-and-forget indirect fire unit for the USF, I would pick the Pack Howitzer (which is also better). The only foresee-able use (not covered by pack howitzers) I can think for the M8a1 Scott is countering pak-walls (where mobility is useful). How well do the current and the buffed m8a1 scotts do this job?
However, I am still curious; how does the current m8a1 and the buffed m8a1 compare to:
- OST mortars
- Pack Howies
The reason that I am asking is that it seems that the m8a1 has a far shorter range (60). Moreover, since it is on wheels, it is snipeable by AT, tanks, Schrecks (which are hopefully on the way out). This makes the m8a1 a babysit unit on a faction that already struggles with babysitting on the late-game (Jackson flotilla, etc).
The way I see it, if I wanted a set-and-forget indirect fire unit for the USF, I would pick the Pack Howitzer (which is also better). The only foresee-able use (not covered by pack howitzers) I can think for the M8a1 Scott is countering pak-walls (where mobility is useful). How well do the current and the buffed m8a1 scotts do this job?
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
4 May 2016, 12:15 PM
#4
4 Posts: 444
You must be trolling OP, it got a minor but much needed buff.
 | Playercard of Looney | |||||||||||||||||||
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4 May 2016, 12:20 PM
#5
Posts: 677
You must be trolling OP, it got a minor but much needed buff.
Describing as "minor buff" 4 buffs with far AOE receiving a +100% accuracy, it sound as if you are trolling actually.
M8 Motor Carriage
• AOE mid modifer from 0.15 to 0.25
• AOE far modifier from 0.05 to 0.10
• Build-time from 80 seconds to 50 seconds.
• Health from 320 to 400
Firespark has along history of posting after researching his topic and backing up his claims with valid arguments. Even when I find myself disagreeing with him his posts are solid.
He has also actively helped in the overall balance of this game for a very long time. Accusing him of trolling, especially in this forum, is completely unjust.
4 May 2016, 12:34 PM
#6
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Describing as "minor buff" 4 buffs with far AOE receiving a +100% accuracy you sound as if you are trolling actually.
M8 Motor Carriage
• AOE mid modifer from 0.15 to 0.25
• AOE far modifier from 0.05 to 0.10
• Build-time from 80 seconds to 50 seconds.
• Health from 320 to 400
I think I have to disagree with this. The number of lines on a changelog (number of buffs) is not a good way to measure the (absolute value) of the performance of a unit. If your monthly salary is 1 penny, multiplying that quantity by 100 does not make you a rich person. Also, I don't see the accuracy buff that you mention?
Now, if you compare the new AoE profile you will see that:
- It is inferior to the AoE profile of mortars (but same AoE radius)
- It is identical to the AoE profile of the Pack Howie (However the Pack Howie has 50% bigger AoE radius; something it is notorious for)
However:
(I think I now see OP's point) the M8A1 Scott deals 100 damage per shot (as opposed to 80 damage per shot of other indirect fire pieces). However, instead of nerfing the AoE profile, as the OP suggests, (which will make Scott useless for garrison clearing), wouldn't it be better to tone down the amount of damage to 80 (if a nerf is needed)?
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
4 May 2016, 12:39 PM
#7
Posts: 677
I think I have to disagree with this...
Feel free to. The unit might or might not be Op, but there is nothing "minor" to specific 4 buffs and 2*far AOE buff.
If you want to compare it whit mortars you have to keep in mind that it uses lower trajectory so projectiles have less travel time and are better against moving targets. Has a barrage range of 80. Is more mobile. Can not be countered by mortars and can pop smoke to counter direct fire.
4 May 2016, 12:53 PM
#8
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
If you want to compare it whit mortars you have to keep in mind that it uses lower trajectory so projectiles have less travel time and are better against moving targets. Has a barrage range of 80. Is more mobile. Can not be countered by mortars and can pop smoke to counter direct fire.
Those are valid points. The trajectory point is crucial (Pack Howie and Leig had an insanely low shooting angle during Leigfest, which created all sorts of issues).
However, a barrage range of 80 is necessary for a unit that -might- be used to counter a Pak wall -- something that the Pak Howie is not great at. A 60-range Scott means you will be shot back at.
Feel free to. The unit might or might not be Op, but there is nothing "minor" to specific 4 buffs and 2*far AOE buff.
One could argue that the M8A1 has been completely forgotten while numerous buffs came and went to other indirect fire pieces (LEIG, Pak Howie etc). All 3 buffs aim to correct inconsistencies between the M8A1 and the other indirect fire pieces.
Technically there are three buffs:
- Health buff: absolutely necessary for a T3.5 unit
- Built-time: This is a mere formality. Completely bypassed by the Captain's Supervise ability.
- AoE profile buff: This one we'll have to see (while also taking the 100 damage of this arty piece into account).
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
4 May 2016, 13:22 PM
#9
Posts: 677
...
However, a barrage range of 80 is necessary for a unit that -might- be used to counter a Pak wall -- something that the Pak Howie is not great at. A 60-range Scott means you will be shot back at.
...
Is it? if it can counter enemy mortars, ATG and AT infantry, one has to risk vehicles against it which in most cases are more expensive than M8a1 (which can take 2 and survive in most cases and can pop smoke). Buffing the unit so much combined with the m36 sight buff will probably prove problematic, since M36 will be able to spot and counter most vehicles and m8a1 counter ATgs...
4 May 2016, 13:26 PM
#10
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Is it? if it can counter enemy mortars, ATG and AT infantry, one has to risk vehicles against it which in most cases are more expensive than M8a1. Buffing the unit so much combined with the m36 sight buff will probably prove problematic, since M36 will be able to spot and counter most vehicles and m8a1 counter ATgs...
You do realize that its USF stock equivalent to other factions rocket arty, right?
Why do you think T4 USF indirect fire unit should not perform well?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 May 2016, 13:27 PM
#11
Posts: 677
You do realize that its USF stock equivalent to other factions rocket arty, right?
Why do you think T4 USF indirect fire unit should not perform well?
I just explain read, my post again...It actually help reading other people view before posting...
No it is not equivalent to rocket artillery...rocket artillery are barrage weapon with a long cool-down...M8a1 auto-fires...
4 May 2016, 13:29 PM
#12
Posts: 1273
Is it? if it can counter enemy mortars, ATG and AT infantry, one has to risk vehicles against it which in most cases are more expensive than M8a1 (which can take 2 and survive in most cases and can pop smoke). Buffing the unit so much combined with the m36 sight buff will probably prove problematic, since M36 will be able to spot and counter most vehicles and m8a1 counter ATgs...
It is a T4 unit, yet you argue in a most vague sense [probably to counter the reader that their reading abilities are poor, as you usually do] that it should not behave like a stock T4 unit, despite it being underutilised for months.
4 May 2016, 13:33 PM
#13
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Is it? if it can counter enemy mortars, ATG and AT infantry, one has to risk vehicles against it which in most cases are more expensive than M8a1. Buffing the unit so much combined with the m36 sight buff will probably prove problematic, since M36 will be able to spot and counter most vehicles and m8a1 counter ATgs...
I don't really see where the problem exactly lies if the Scott can counter all that. The Scott is not a 2CP(?) 200MP/40FU mortar half-track. It's a late-game indirect fire unit. The following factions have these non-doctrinal tools to provoke the kind of reaction you describe (force the enemy to attack);
- Soviets have Katyusha
- OST has Panzerwerfer
- OKW has Stukas
Moreover, some factions have additional side-options to counter pak-walls:
- OST: Brummbar (hopefully, with the new Patch)
- OKW: KT
At this point I am a bit curious. How do you counter extreme pak-walling (a non-doctrinal option for OST) as USF?
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
4 May 2016, 13:34 PM
#14
Posts: 677
It is a T4 unit, yet you argue in a most vague sense [probably to counter the reader that their reading abilities are poor, as you usually do] that it should not behave like a stock T4 unit, despite it being underutilised for months.
The majority of buffs introduced to units in this patch are over top imo. Just because a unit was not used before patch does not need multiple buffs some of them with multiplier that go up to X2.
The simply fact that VG can no-longer get shrecks or that M8a1 Hp where increase to 400 is enough to completely change the viability of the unit.
And pls post in thread when you have something remotely relevant to the threads topic. Posting just to attack me is not very constructive...
4 May 2016, 13:37 PM
#15
Posts: 677
At this point I am a bit curious. How do you counter extreme pak-walling (a non-doctrinal option for OST) as USF?
mortar, pak howi, Major artillery, infantry, Off map, priest, Caliope...
I would hardly call brummbar a counter to ATG walls...it has to sort range and is completely shut down by Su-85 or M36...
4 May 2016, 13:42 PM
#16
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
I just explain read, my post again...It actually help reading other people view before posting...
No it is not equivalent to rocket artillery...rocket artillery are barrage weapon with a long cool-down...M8a1 auto-fires...
I've read it.
You're butthurt that T4 tank destroyer will destroy tanks while T4 anti infantry mobile mortar will destroy team weapon crews and infantry.
For some reason you believe 2 units doing the exact job they are supposed to do are a problem.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 May 2016, 13:44 PM
#17
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
mortar, pak howi, Major artillery, infantry, Off map, priest, Caliope...
Non-Doctrinal (Less Effective)
Pak Howie
Major Artillery (Hahahaha *deep breath* Hahahaha)
Infantry (Not with the usual accompanying MG42 you don't)
Doctrinal (More Effective)
Mortar (Maybe middling, you see them about as often as Scotts really)
Off Map
Priest
Calliope
See the problem? Not saying that the new AoE Profile may not be an overbuff (Relic *never* does that) but the Scott definitely needs something more than just Health and Build Time buff.
4 May 2016, 13:45 PM
#18
Posts: 677
I've read it.
Congratulation you are making progress.
You're butthurt ...
Don't make assumptions about others based on your own experiences...
4 May 2016, 13:46 PM
#19
Posts: 677
Major Artillery (Hahahaha *deep breath* Hahahaha)
Have you tried the patch major arty?
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