Login

russian armor

[OKW] The Jagdtiger

27 Apr 2016, 17:23 PM
#41
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:14 PMHitman5


JT is useless vs Inf. You can easily push back with inf blob.



Tl;DR: Nerf Jagdtiger out of the game.


Idk what you are talking about the ele is still used in many games (except 1v1). I simply made the argument that jag should match that combat ability of the ele and suggested removing the stun and matching the range of the ele and ISU.

Its no secret the unit is over preforming in 2v2 onward due to its extra HE round ability (Kills At guns), piercing shot, and range longer than that of pak43, 17pndr, ele, and ISU.

If that take the unit out of the game than a cost reduction is in order.



27 Apr 2016, 17:23 PM
#42
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:19 PMKatitof

This is literally one of the worst arguments possible.
Brits exclusively have the means to damage it with infantry and its not like OKW infantry goes all french, drops the guns and leaves the battlefield when JT is called-in.


You can make three extra Riflemen Squads or Infantry Sections for the 21 pop cap that JT takes up. It means 21 pop cap is spent on solely AT power when you can just use more inf instead.

Any Pro Axis opinion is "literally one of the worst arguments possible" coming from you so that's pretty much meaningless anyway.
27 Apr 2016, 17:27 PM
#43
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:23 PMMittens


Idk what you are talking about the ele is still used in many games (except 1v1). I simply made the argument that jag should match that combat ability of the ele and suggested removing the stun and matching the range of the ele and ISU.

Its no secret the unit is over preforming in 2v2 onward due to its extra HE round ability (Kills At guns), piercing shot, and range longer than that of pak43, 17pndr, ele, and ISU.

If that take the unit out of the game than a cost reduction is in order.


The Elefant is not used in many games at all, it's almost as rare as a KV2. It's simply inferior to Jagdtiger.

Why should JT perform the same as Elefant? You do realise Elefant is 88cm Pak43 and Jagdtiger has 128cm Pak44? Or of course "CoH has nothing to with history" so that in case why don't we just allow Shermans to be TD for USF? The JT is one of the only things going for Axis over Allies at the moment and there is no reason why it should be nerfed out of the game.

The HE round ability is terrible, if its not on flat ground it will hit any terrain in the way, has poor accuracy, doesn't do much damage, requires vet and costs a lot.
27 Apr 2016, 17:41 PM
#44
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:27 PMHitman5


The Elefant is not used in many games at all, it's almost as rare as a KV2. It's simply inferior to Jagdtiger.

Why should JT perform the same as Elefant? You do realise Elefant is 88cm Pak43 and Jagdtiger has 128cm Pak44? Or of course "CoH has nothing to with history" so that in case why don't we just allow Shermans to be TD for USF? The JT is one of the only things going for Axis over Allies at the moment and there is no reason why it should be nerfed out of the game.

The HE round ability is terrible, if its not on flat ground it will hit any terrain in the way, has poor accuracy, doesn't do much damage, requires vet and costs a lot.




ughhhh. I see an ele or jag almost every game as I play 2v2's and 4v4's a lot. The jagtiger's range is so long that you often cant flank them. The Infantry of OKW's handheld AT shut down most flanks and you will always lose 1/2 tanks while engaging. The high front (and currently pre patch high rear) makes this unit hard to deal damage to. The high HP means that even if you do pen the unit its still soaking up loads of damage you could be doing else where. This doens't take into account that the unit can shoot through ALL shot blockers and terrain meaning you will always be shot at no matter if you flank it or not. The reverse speed/ engine upgrade is cheap, 90 muni is nothing once it hits the field and as such allows it to disengage from combat faster than you would expect a tank from that size to do.
The HE rounds allows the tank (even if you say they are bad) allows you to engage AT guns at max range making this tank more than just "dedicated" AT. Its a cheese ability and should be removed.

You can say the ele is bad, but the damage it deals and the 70 range is incredible and yet still fair if I lose a tank or two to it while closing the distance. If you think the ele is bad than maybe you should try it with a good team or try supporting it.




EDIT: All in all the Jagtiger is a one man army and can effectively take on huge team pushes and effectively win games if not shut down as soon as it hits the field. Its a big dumb OP unit with minimal micro and skill required to use it and as such needs nerfs to match that of other units of its class.
27 Apr 2016, 17:47 PM
#45
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 744 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:41 PMMittens


The HE rounds allows the tank (even if you say they are bad) allows you to engage AT guns at max range making this tank more than just "dedicated" AT. Its a cheese ability and should be removed.


This ability has actually a little bit more range than the normal max range. It's 125.
27 Apr 2016, 17:56 PM
#46
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 16:42 PMJadame!


There always will be port of hamburg choke point hell.



veto that map, problem solved! :)
27 Apr 2016, 18:00 PM
#47
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:41 PMMittens
ughhhh. I see an ele or jag almost every game as I play 2v2's and 4v4's a lot. The jagtiger's range is so long that you often cant flank them. The Infantry of OKW's handheld AT shut down most flanks and you will always lose 1/2 tanks while engaging. The high front (and currently pre patch high rear) makes this unit hard to deal damage to. The high HP means that even if you do pen the unit its still soaking up loads of damage you could be doing else where. This doens't take into account that the unit can shoot through ALL shot blockers and terrain meaning you will always be shot at no matter if you flank it or not. The reverse speed/ engine upgrade is cheap, 90 muni is nothing once it hits the field and as such allows it to disengage from combat faster than you would expect a tank from that size to do.


Ehm no, the Elefant is far less common than the Jagdtiger, it's pretty much obsolete compared to the Jagdtiger. There are more ways to deal with it than just rushing it with tanks too. Ever heard of artillery and air strikes? It can't do much vs AT guns either. "Even if you do pen the unit its still soaking up loads of damage you could be doing else where", what does this even mean? It's a super heavy tank and is supposed to be able to soak a lot of damage. The JT can't shoot through all shot blockers anymore unless you use a 90 munition ability for 10 seconds. Sounds like you haven't played OKW or even CoH in a while.

The HE rounds allows the tank (even if you say they are bad) allows you to engage AT guns at max range making this tank more than just "dedicated" AT. Its a cheese ability and should be removed.


It wouldn't really make much difference if it was removed because it's a pretty poor ability.

You can say the ele is bad, but the damage it deals and the 70 range is incredible and yet still fair if I lose a tank or two to it while closing the distance. If you think the ele is bad than maybe you should try it with a good team or try supporting it.


The JT and Elefant deal the same damage. The JT has more range and higher penetration. For almost the same price the Jagdtiger is a significantly better unit.


All in all the Jagtiger is a one man army and can effectively take on huge team pushes and effectively win games if not shut down as soon as it hits the field. Its a big dumb OP unit with minimal micro and skill required to use it and as such needs nerfs to match that of other units of its class.


It's not a one man army at all considering it isn't effective at all vs infantry. Are you forgetting that Axis is supposed to have a stronger late game? It's not OP when you consider its weaknesses and the cost. Just build more infantry and it's pretty much a useless unit.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:56 PMAladdin


veto that map, problem solved! :)


Sounds too difficult, please nerf JT.
27 Apr 2016, 18:06 PM
#48
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

lol dont bother with htiman, nothing will get through to him
27 Apr 2016, 18:35 PM
#49
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

@Hitman, your understanding of the JT is limited.

The JT has excellent AI for a "dedicated AT" unit.
The AoE on its AP shells allow it to regularly kill infantry models.
It has 125 range barrage, which is good against infantry.
It also is in a doc with phenomenal AI and spotting options.
It also comes in a faction with amazing AT on infantry.

About the airstrikes and artillery. All I need to do is land what, 9 Priest shells on the deck of the tank. And for airstrikes, you are really thinking about just 1 or 2 abilities in the game (P47s and IL2 bombing), neither of these is likely to ever have a chance to kill the JT for a variety of reasons.

We went through all these things not too long ago, take a look: https://www.coh2.org/topic/51702/jagdtiger-balance-for-3v3/page/1#post_id519020
27 Apr 2016, 22:35 PM
#50
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930



Well, he is a replay where JT is used, you guys can see how they generally perform here.
27 Apr 2016, 23:51 PM
#51
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Why does everyone hate mines? Seriously? "if the enemy rushes you you are screwed" lay a mine and they wont get to far... Why is combined arms so hard....ALSO the barrage ability (while RNG cause relic LOOOOOVES abilities that have the potential to do absolutely nothing no matter what the player tells it to...) I have been lucky enough to insta Gib a few squads with it. Its long range support for stuff like machine guns and at guns..
28 Apr 2016, 02:02 AM
#52
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

Why does everyone hate mines? Seriously? "if the enemy rushes you you are screwed" lay a mine and they wont get to far... Why is combined arms so hard....ALSO the barrage ability (while RNG cause relic LOOOOOVES abilities that have the potential to do absolutely nothing no matter what the player tells it to...) I have been lucky enough to insta Gib a few squads with it. Its long range support for stuff like machine guns and at guns..


lol what even is this?
28 Apr 2016, 03:24 AM
#53
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 12:33 PMcapiqua
Coh2 is a game of medium tanks. Relic to put limits to heavy. There are some who are not fit into the game. JT with 2 or 3 shots wipe any medium tank and the owner does not know where come from those shots.
JT nerf.


Yeh, nah.
Come play some team games and get raped by 4 Comets, then come talk to us about Coh 2 being a game of mediums

Why does everyone hate mines? Seriously? "if the enemy rushes you you are screwed" lay a mine and they wont get to far... Why is combined arms so hard....ALSO the barrage ability (while RNG cause relic LOOOOOVES abilities that have the potential to do absolutely nothing no matter what the player tells it to...) I have been lucky enough to insta Gib a few squads with it. Its long range support for stuff like machine guns and at guns..

Wrong thread Bro

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:41 PMMittens

Snip. Metten's Un-audible Rambling. Snip


Dude, for the love of RNGesus, please, please use more punctuation and paragraphing.
You are an USA speaker, you should know this.

Back on topic, Jaghtiger needs the fire thru building ability back. /bait

It's OK as it is.
It's rarely used in team games due to the cost, gets scared if a light tank farts on it, and is easily rushed with 2 or more squads.
28 Apr 2016, 03:51 AM
#54
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959



Yeh, nah.
Come play some team games and get raped by 4 Comets, then come talk to us about Coh 2 being a game of mediums



Upload the replay of your game that you got raped like that, I may do you a favour by spending some time and reviewing your game and tell you what you did wrong to get raped like that and what your actual problem was, not the 4 Comets
28 Apr 2016, 04:59 AM
#55
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2016, 03:51 AMAladdin


Upload the replay of your game that you got raped like that, I may do you a favour by spending some time and reviewing your game and tell you what you did wrong to get raped like that and what your actual problem was, not the 4 Comets


Im not a fan of saving replays, especially where I get slaughtered.
Nevertheless, it was a 4v4 match with random pubes, unlike you and your mates... say, room for 1 more?
28 Apr 2016, 06:50 AM
#56
avatar of SolisSteel

Posts: 8

Banned
Im all for matching the jadg to the elephant, IF we are actually matching it to the ele Equally, that is, not nerfing its advantages while leaving its weaknesess, give it an actual ability set and not the useless placeholders it now has.

As much as some biased posters cry about it, piercing shot is almost unusable, and so is the explosive barrage, killing AT's with it at any range requires your oponent to AFK and RNGJESUS to bless you.

Bring down the CP and cost down to eles level if were bringing it in line with it, or buff it to its actual cost if its gonna remain the same cost, stop with the suddenly TD meta is broken and needs flat nerfs, thats just allied bias.
28 Apr 2016, 10:07 AM
#57
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 18

As much as some biased posters cry about it, piercing shot is almost unusable, and so is the explosive barrage, killing AT's with it at any range requires your oponent to AFK and RNGJESUS to bless you.


Piercing shot works almost just fine. It seems that there is a 5-second delay between activating it, and when your Jagd can start benefiting the ability.

What I mean is that:
- Suppose there is an enemy target behind a building
- I activate the piercing shot ability
- If I right click right away on the target, the Jagtiger will try to go around the building
- Even if you attack-ground, the shots will hit the building
- If I wait for ~5 seconds before right-clicking, the Jagtiger will engage through the building, pak43-style
- (after the 5 second delay elapses, attack ground will ALSO traverse buildings)
- I haven't checked whether the ability works for the entire duration (because no single target can survive more than 20 seconds)

I haven't checked the actual files, but that's what it looked like to me when I was abusing the Jagtiger last night.

The barrage ability is also insane. For 40 munitions you can snipe just about anything you can imagine.
- Provided that there is absolutely no bump on the ground between you and the target.
- In fact, I was actually using it to snipe vetted AT guns (because AT guns had to remain still to fire at my other tanks)
28 Apr 2016, 13:36 PM
#58
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

JT is fine anyone that thinks is op is an ally fan boy
anyone who thinks is up is an axis fan boy close post please
the jad is more used to spot fan boy than as an actual TD:snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter:
28 Apr 2016, 15:38 PM
#59
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:00 PMMittens
I was talking about the jagtiger having longer range than immobile ATguns not a nerf for dedicated AT emplacements. The jagertiger shouldn't have this ability as its mobility seems unaffected due to engine upgrade.


Yeah and replied only to last path of your proposed changes regarding big-ass static at guns, coz I really dont want to discuss jt again, seems like everybody have their own opinion formed on it and it pointless to try to convince them. Personally I find it semi-fine, and maps and pathfinding are real problem where controlling one big powerfull tank is far more beneficial than many weak ones. Besides, lack of side armor and excellent at protection in form of shrecks(which soon would be no more) screwed this balance even more.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:56 PMAladdin


veto that map, problem solved! :)


You know what alternatives are :S
28 Apr 2016, 15:42 PM
#60
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

meh in 1v1, situational in 2v2, OP at 3v3+ game
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag Oziligath
  • The British Forces flag T.R. Sidewinder
uploaded by Oziligath

Board Info

243 users are online: 1 member and 242 guests
Katukov
8 posts in the last 24h
129 posts in the last week
794 posts in the last month
Registered members: 34886
Welcome our newest member, Deroyertiki
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM