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[OKW] The Jagdtiger

27 Apr 2016, 11:55 AM
#21
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

Hold on, I thought the JT is still able to shoot through shotblockers? When was that changed?
27 Apr 2016, 11:57 AM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 11:55 AMDomine
Hold on, I thought the JT is still able to shoot through shotblockers? When was that changed?

Over a year ago.
It needs to use 30 sec ability to still do it.
27 Apr 2016, 12:33 PM
#23
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

Coh2 is a game of medium tanks. Relic to put limits to heavy. There are some who are not fit into the game. JT with 2 or 3 shots wipe any medium tank and the owner does not know where come from those shots.

JT nerf.
27 Apr 2016, 13:44 PM
#24
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2



Doesnt really have to be 2 vetted su's, normal at guns, churchills to tank dmg and its gun, even stuarts can stunlock it due to ROF, even zooks can cause the crit if im not mistaken.

Its exceedingly easy to punish jadgtiger positioning due to simple mistakes, while not really offering anything over is most similar counterpart the elephant while also being considerably more expensive.

Accuracy is consistent on both due to massive stats on both guns, rarely do both ever miss, their performance hardly differs in practical play, the only notable quality the extra 15 range grants to the Jagd is firing from safer ranges on the 17 pounder like mentioned by other poster above.


Please bring on some actual valid points. I´m gonna pull the Axis-fanboy card here.
Attacking a Jagdtiger with a light tank? Attacking the Jagdtiger with a churchill? Infantry being able to close in? Are you serious?

The chance to hit a T-34 at max distance with the JT is 88%. It's 66% for an Elefant. That's actually a noticable difference.
27 Apr 2016, 14:15 PM
#25
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

Big dumb OP super unit

OKW should have gotten a jagdpanther or something
27 Apr 2016, 14:19 PM
#26
avatar of SturmAlpha

Posts: 42

Hello comrades.

Im kind of a lurker in these forums but this is something that's been itching on my mind, im not a proplayer but i like to think that i can use logic.

The Jadgtiger, Slow, cumbersome 300 fuel and 15 CP.

The elephant Faster, Cheaper, doesnt get stunned when shot by tank guns, better rotation and aiming times, can aim with its cannon in a cone and comes earlier. Comes out even in vet bonuses and peaks faster. Hell even its only ability its better than the other 2 of the Jagd combined.

The jagd only coming ahead in front armor and health, pretty useless if you ask me when you get stunlocked by any kind of tankgun.

So, whats the logic of the jadg being a heavier, outright worse vehicle compared to the elephant? should it recieve some kind of change?.


Historically the JT was the biggest and heaviest tank in the world mounted with a pak GUN! so expect the poor performance in tearms of speed and maneuvering! in ww2 Germany produced a few but only 2 tank were actually functional, its the most powerful tank of all time so its a trade, damage for speed! i understand the fact the crew gets stunned thats because the fact its being too slow and easy to hunt and hard to retreat or get away from other threats, what you have to do is keep an eye on ur JT and never leave it alone, you have to back it up with other troops or tanks.
27 Apr 2016, 14:20 PM
#27
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

Every day there is a new L2P thread, but i got i simple solution, instead of learn the game just nerf every OKW unit into ground. :thumb:


so how many nerfs OKW is getting to have that makes you unhappy? having MG34 as stock and MG42 in 2 docs in your favourite faction doesn't make you happy enough? or the price reduction of KT? or instead of having your no brainer shreck blobs having units (volks with possibility of AI weapon upgrade) to fit their actual rule, doesn't make you happy enough that you call it nerfing OKW into ground? would you seriously enjoy and want OKW to be bullshit OP so that you be happy?

this game is more enjoyable when it's more balanced and people (including your opponents) use less frustrating playstyles. That is why people hate to see their opponents blobing and it's been an issue in this game, specially since the WFA release. With how OKW has been, it has encouraged blobing to the OKW players, hopefully this upcoming patch fixes it into better, we will see.
27 Apr 2016, 14:28 PM
#28
avatar of SolisSteel

Posts: 8

Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 12:33 PMcapiqua
Coh2 is a game of medium tanks. Relic to put limits to heavy. There are some who are not fit into the game. JT with 2 or 3 shots wipe any medium tank and the owner does not know where come from those shots.

JT nerf.



Hmm, so what you're defending here isnt even related to the thread, youre asking to leave mediums at the top chain of armor and removing elements like JT ele isu 17pdr from the game declaring them as having no place in the game.

Its weird that you ask for a nerf, when you mean a total removal of heavy TD's.




Please bring on some actual valid points. I´m gonna pull the Axis-fanboy card here.
Attacking a Jagdtiger with a light tank? Attacking the Jagdtiger with a churchill? Infantry being able to close in? Are you serious?

The chance to hit a T-34 at max distance with the JT is 88%. It's 66% for an Elefant. That's actually a noticable difference.


So suddenly you deem to ignore al points without even trying to explain why theyre invalid and start with the ad hominems, thats doesnt make you sound neutral nor make your arguments more solid.

You're going to tell me you cant buffer the JT shots with a heavy + rush for the flank, nor smoke the lane you're charging with a rifle screen + at to block out the JT.

Heavy TD meta is already pretty weak, dont try to make it sound like the JT is suddenly extremely op to prove you points. And for the hit chance difference is about 20%~ thats like 1 / 5 missed shots, AT MAX RANGE, still pretty accurate id say, and not a notable difference to justify the massive diference cost resource and CP wise.
27 Apr 2016, 14:49 PM
#29
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 14:20 PMAladdin


so how many nerfs OKW is getting to have that makes you unhappy? having MG34 as stock and MG42 in 2 docs in your favourite faction doesn't make you happy enough? or the price reduction of KT? or instead of having your no brainer shreck blobs having units (volks with possibility of AI weapon upgrade) to fit their actual rule, doesn't make you happy enough that you call it nerfing OKW into ground? would you seriously enjoy and want OKW to be bullshit OP so that you be happy?

this game is more enjoyable when it's more balanced and people (including your opponents) use less frustrating playstyles. That is why people hate to see their opponents blobing and it's been an issue in this game, specially since the WFA release. With how OKW has been, it has encouraged blobing to the OKW players, hopefully this upcoming patch fixes it into better, we will see.


Just saing that there is a l2p issue, and to be hornest, OKW will rape even harder after next patch but people consider remove of schreck as a nerf, but it dosen't :lolol:
27 Apr 2016, 15:04 PM
#30
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

Jagdtiger lots better than elefant since they removed self spotting+scopes map hack combo, mainly because it hard counters brit sim cities and impenetrable from the front.

Btw cp+jt and jp4 for the spotting :D
27 Apr 2016, 15:36 PM
#31
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2


So suddenly you deem to ignore al points without even trying to explain why theyre invalid and start with the ad hominems, thats doesnt make you sound neutral nor make your arguments more solid.

You're going to tell me you cant buffer the JT shots with a heavy + rush for the flank, nor smoke the lane you're charging with a rifle screen + at to block out the JT.

Heavy TD meta is already pretty weak, dont try to make it sound like the JT is suddenly extremely op to prove you points. And for the hit chance difference is about 20%~ thats like 1 / 5 missed shots, AT MAX RANGE, still pretty accurate id say, and not a notable difference to justify the massive diference cost resource and CP wise.


I don't have to explain. Every player who's not completely biased knows that it's a bad idea to go against a Jagdtiger with a light tank or to hunt a super heavy with a range of 85 with infantry (slower than JT) equipped with Bazookas (35 range). And, you haven't heard of the ironic term "smoke and flank", have you?

Given certain circumstances (map and game time) the JT and Ele are both blatantly OP. Good examples are Minsk pocket, Rails and Metal, Rzhev, Ettelbrück etc.

Regarding the accuracy comparison - Let me help you out in math: 100*34/12 = 283.3
Yes, that's right. The Elefant will miss 283.3% more often than the JT ... and we haven't even considered the scatter of the JT which is about 1/3 lower. Btw, super heavies should always be shooting at max distance or you are playing them wrong.
27 Apr 2016, 15:38 PM
#32
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959



Just saing that there is a l2p issue, and to be hornest, OKW will rape even harder after next patch but people consider remove of schreck as a nerf, but it dosen't :lolol:


That's my point :) OKW will be a bit different but not weak.
27 Apr 2016, 16:00 PM
#33
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 15:04 PMJadame!
Jagdtiger lots better than elefant since they removed self spotting+scopes map hack combo, mainly because it hard counters brit sim cities and impenetrable from the front.

Btw cp+jt and jp4 for the spotting :D


Brit sim city is no more cancerous with the nerf to the counter battery, u won't need JT to counter that :)
27 Apr 2016, 16:29 PM
#34
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

Engine upgrade tied with its 85 range, high armor, high health pool, HE (vet rounds), and Shot blocking rounds, makes this unit over preforming in its Heavy anti-tank tank role. Not only is it hard to counter due to its range but its hard to out get behind due to its reverse speed. The stun that people often cite is being the way you counter it, only lasts 2.5 seconds and slows the tank/locks gun.

Jagtiger needs to -

  • Match range of other Heavy TD. Range from 85-70
  • Perceing rounds that avoid shot blockers shouldn't be allowed in coh2. Remove round from jag, 17pndr, and pak43
  • Reduce health pool but keep high front armor, match with ele or isu
  • Remove HE rounds or reduce damage/aoe (counters AT guns currently)
  • engine upgrade should increase turn rate
  • As such the damage for jag should match ele to compensate for 70 range
  • price should stay the same
  • Remove stun on pen


EDIT: People talking about sim city but have yet to try the nerf. Jagtiger shouldn't out range 17pndr as much as isu shouldn't out range pak43.

27 Apr 2016, 16:42 PM
#35
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 16:00 PMAladdin


Brit sim city is no more cancerous with the nerf to the counter battery, u won't need JT to counter that :)


There always will be port of hamburg choke point hell.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 16:29 PMMittens

EDIT: People talking about sim city but have yet to try the nerf. Jagtiger shouldn't out range 17pndr as much as isu shouldn't out range pak43.


Then it would be useless to build pak 43, as it useless to build 17 pounder right now (this and 23 popcap and additional damage from at guns, thats frustrating how bad it is, arrrgh). Huge at guns shooting trought walls is necessary evil which is tradeoff for their immobility.
27 Apr 2016, 16:44 PM
#36
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 16:42 PMJadame!


There always will be port of hamburg choke point hell.


Oh god don't remind me. I have nightmares of ele,jagtiger,strumtiger,KT combo
27 Apr 2016, 16:49 PM
#37
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 16:44 PMMittens


Oh god don't remind me. I have nightmares of ele,jagtiger,strumtiger,KT combo


And i still have nightmares from miserable endings of my first attempts to flank on this map before i realised i should just give up and build 3 stuaks or 5 pak howies.
27 Apr 2016, 17:00 PM
#38
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 16:42 PMJadame!


There always will be port of hamburg choke point hell.



Then it would be useless to build pak 43, as it useless to build 17 pounder right now (this and 23 popcap and additional damage from at guns, thats frustrating how bad it is, arrrgh). Huge at guns shooting trought walls is necessary evil which is tradeoff for their immobility.


I was talking about the jagtiger having longer range than immobile ATguns not a nerf for dedicated AT emplacements. The jagertiger shouldn't have this ability as its mobility seems unaffected due to engine upgrade.
27 Apr 2016, 17:14 PM
#39
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467

Every player who's not completely biased knows that it's a bad idea to go against a Jagdtigerwith with infantry (slower than JT) equipped with Bazookas (35 range).


JT is useless vs Inf. You can easily push back with inf blob.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 16:29 PMMittens
Engine upgrade tied with its 85 range, high armor, high health pool, HE (vet rounds), and Shot blocking rounds, makes this unit over preforming in its Heavy anti-tank tank role. Not only is it hard to counter due to its range but its hard to out get behind due to its reverse speed. The stun that people often cite is being the way you counter it, only lasts 2.5 seconds and slows the tank/locks gun.

Jagtiger needs to -

  • Match range of other Heavy TD. Range from 85-70
  • Perceing rounds that avoid shot blockers shouldn't be allowed in coh2. Remove round from jag, 17pndr, and pak43
  • Reduce health pool but keep high front armor, match with ele or isu
  • Remove HE rounds or reduce damage/aoe (counters AT guns currently)
  • engine upgrade should increase turn rate
  • As such the damage for jag should match ele to compensate for 70 range
  • price should stay the same
  • Remove stun on pen


EDIT: People talking about sim city but have yet to try the nerf. Jagtiger shouldn't out range 17pndr as much as isu shouldn't out range pak43.



Tl;DR: Nerf Jagdtiger out of the game.
27 Apr 2016, 17:19 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 17:14 PMHitman5


JT is useless vs Inf. You can easily push back with inf blob.

This is literally one of the worst arguments possible.
Brits exclusively have the means to damage it with infantry and its not like OKW infantry goes all french, drops the guns and leaves the battlefield when JT is called-in.
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