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[OKW] The Jagdtiger

Whats the state of the Jadgtiger?
Option Distribution Votes
33%
44%
23%
Total votes: 104
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
27 Apr 2016, 07:08 AM
#1
avatar of SolisSteel

Posts: 8

Banned
Hello comrades.

Im kind of a lurker in these forums but this is something that's been itching on my mind, im not a proplayer but i like to think that i can use logic.

The Jadgtiger, Slow, cumbersome 300 fuel and 15 CP.

The elephant Faster, Cheaper, doesnt get stunned when shot by tank guns, better rotation and aiming times, can aim with its cannon in a cone and comes earlier. Comes out even in vet bonuses and peaks faster. Hell even its only ability its better than the other 2 of the Jagd combined.

The jagd only coming ahead in front armor and health, pretty useless if you ask me when you get stunlocked by any kind of tankgun.

So, whats the logic of the jadg being a heavier, outright worse vehicle compared to the elephant? should it recieve some kind of change?.
27 Apr 2016, 07:13 AM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17864 | Subs: 8

Actually, JT with engine upgrade is faster then Ele and its actually possible to pen Ele from the front.

If other tanks are shooting at your JT, you did something wrong as with 85 range nothing but a map long flank should ever reach you.

In short, JT has better stats therefore is more expensive.
Not much to discuss here, its an option, but its not a no-brainer.
27 Apr 2016, 07:16 AM
#3
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

I don't think it needs a nerf. It just needs a change. Right now it's incredibly overpowered in team games, but nearly unused in single player.

It's a problem with counter play, a really expensive unit that's resistant to it's own counters isn't going to be balanced in modes where players can depend on their allies to cover them. The only real way to beat it is to overwhelm it with units it generally counters, which while doable in 1v1 gets exceedingly harder with allies that can respond to all in assaults.

I would love to see it's counters become more effective vs it in exchange for a price drop so it's easier to obtain in 1v1.
27 Apr 2016, 07:34 AM
#4
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3135 | Subs: 2

The only problem I have with it is the constant stunning of the crew, and vet 5 is wayyy too far off for the stun immunity if you ask me,but overall since it's and the ISU 152 nerfs it's still viable if you ask me.
27 Apr 2016, 07:47 AM
#5
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

In my opinion the JT is fine as it is.
It wrecks all Allied tanks to pieces with about 3 shots, has amazing front armour and great range.

It was able to shoot through shotblockers once but that was simply op as fuck. On the other hand I don't get that whole stunned thing. This is the only thing that makes it worse than the Elefant. It should be removed to compensate for the lack of being able to shoot through buildings.

Additionaly it comes in a great commander that offers Panzerfusiliers and the storm office, both great units.

The Elefant is much more defensive and a bit slower than the JT with the Motor upgrade (I still don't understand the logic behind this upgrade) and comes in two doctrines that are 100% defensive with mines, smoke, digging in tanks, and so on.

The Jagdtiger is pretty good as it is. Not OP (you can circle it easily), not UP (It destroys everything without blinking).

27 Apr 2016, 07:49 AM
#6
avatar of Kuprix

Posts: 21

Remove JT and give OKW Jagdpanther instead.
27 Apr 2016, 08:51 AM
#7
avatar of Hitman5

Posts: 467

JT is completely fine but the Elefant needs a bit of a buff. Speed and rotation would be ok.
27 Apr 2016, 08:58 AM
#8
avatar of SolisSteel

Posts: 8

Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 07:13 AMKatitof
Actually, JT with engine upgrade is faster then Ele and its actually possible to pen Ele from the front.


In my experience that isn't the case at all, would love to post a video reply but i suck at video editing.

The jadg, even after sinking ammo into it on top of its very high cost, accelerates and turns notably slower than the default elephant, even taking vet into account ele spikes mobility at vet 2 , jadg at 3 if im not mistaken.

Also a wider and bulkier model makes for even worse handling.

Getting hit on the ele isnt as punishing as with the jadg, the latter would almost cease fuctioning with the passive stun weakness, while with the ele, even taking a penning shot will still allow you to react reverse and fire back.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 07:13 AMKatitof
If other tanks are shooting at your JT, you did something wrong as with 85 range nothing but a map long flank should ever reach you.


^^^the same applies to the ele while this one allows you to react and fight back, jagd is easily stunlocked and rushed.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 07:13 AMKatitof
In short, JT has better stats therefore is more expensive.
Not much to discuss here, its an option, but its not a no-brainer.


JT has worse abilities, and doesnt really win in stats, the ones ive seen some time ago indicated:

Same DMG, range, slightly more reload time, more health and front armor vs the ele, would like to confirm though, im pretty sure about the first 3.
27 Apr 2016, 09:17 AM
#9
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2






^^^the same applies to the ele while this one allows you to react and fight back, jagd is easily stunlocked and rushed.



JT has worse abilities, and doesnt really win in stats, the ones ive seen some time ago indicated:

Same DMG, range, slightly more reload time, more health and front armor vs the ele, would like to confirm though, im pretty sure about the first 3.


Same range? :loco: Worse abilities? :loco:

By the way, you should know that JT stun is not true stun. JT can still move during this "stun"
27 Apr 2016, 09:32 AM
#10
avatar of tenid

Posts: 232

On some 2v2 maps - Minsk, rails and metal etc - the JT is basically an automatic game winner. Flanking is extremely difficult and any player worth their salt will have mined most routes around the JT.

If anything its range needs to come down to match the 17 pounder.
27 Apr 2016, 09:48 AM
#11
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

Every day there is a new L2P thread, but i got i simple solution, instead of learn the game just nerf every OKW unit into ground. :thumb:
27 Apr 2016, 09:50 AM
#12
avatar of SolisSteel

Posts: 8

Banned


Same range? :loco: Worse abilities? :loco:

My bad, 15 range less to the ele, 70 vs 85 still in the operative range of heavy TD's not gonna affect the modus operandi of the unit.

Im gonna say that yes, considerably worse in tactical value, the piercing shell cant lock onto targets thru blockers, and forces you to use target ground, with all the scatter and accuracy penalties, while hampering your firerate even further, nearly unusable and extremely situational ability.

3 Shot "explosive" shells targeted at the ground zonal ability, you pay for 3 normal shots that do less that max dmg due to splash, take forever to aim, and most often than not end up missing, making it pointless vs its intended targets, clumped moving infantry, if youre gonna hit a structure/vehicle youre better of firing normal shells. (vet 1 required and ammo)

So im gonna take the targeted true stun at max range that does full dmg on pen that the elephant brings over those 2 combined any day.


By the way, you should know that JT stun is not true stun. JT can still move during this "stun"


JT literally CRAWLS when hit by the crit and wont fire, so in effective terms yes, its the same as a true stun except you can move VERY slightly.
27 Apr 2016, 09:53 AM
#13
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2



^^^the same applies to the ele while this one allows you to react and fight back, jagd is easily stunlocked and rushed.



JT has worse abilities, and doesnt really win in stats, the ones ive seen some time ago indicated:

Same DMG, range, slightly more reload time, more health and front armor vs the ele, would like to confirm though, im pretty sure about the first 3.


From my personal experience it requires 2 vet2 su-85 to keep a Jagdtiger stunlocked.

The Jagdtiger has 15 range more than the Elefant (thats the range difference of a KT and a Jackson). The "slightly" more reload time is pretty much unnoticable at 0.05 sec longer. The gun has better accuracy and far lower scatter.

It has 25 more range than any other allied tank.
27 Apr 2016, 10:13 AM
#14
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

Don't forget JT outrange 17-pounder too so this baby wrecks Sim city like there's no tomorrow.
27 Apr 2016, 10:17 AM
#15
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

I'm happy with the changes to the JT in the preview patch.
27 Apr 2016, 10:43 AM
#16
27 Apr 2016, 10:52 AM
#17
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1



From my personal experience it requires 2 vet2 su-85 to keep a Jagdtiger stunlocked.


Probably not after upcoming patch (vet ROF nerf).
27 Apr 2016, 11:04 AM
#18
avatar of Ben Affleck

Posts: 25

Buff Jagdtiger.
27 Apr 2016, 11:14 AM
#19
avatar of SolisSteel

Posts: 8

Banned


From my personal experience it requires 2 vet2 su-85 to keep a Jagdtiger stunlocked.


Doesnt really have to be 2 vetted su's, normal at guns, churchills to tank dmg and its gun, even stuarts can stunlock it due to ROF, even zooks can cause the crit if im not mistaken.

Its exceedingly easy to punish jadgtiger positioning due to simple mistakes, while not really offering anything over is most similar counterpart the elephant while also being considerably more expensive.



The Jagdtiger has 15 range more than the Elefant (thats the range difference of a KT and a Jackson). The "slightly" more reload time is pretty much unnoticable at 0.05 sec longer. The gun has better accuracy and far lower scatter.

It has 25 more range than any other allied tank.


Accuracy is consistent on both due to massive stats on both guns, rarely do both ever miss, their performance hardly differs in practical play, the only notable quality the extra 15 range grants to the Jagd is firing from safer ranges on the 17 pounder like mentioned by other poster above.

If a heavy doctrinal TD like these ones didnt outrange allied standart tanks there would be no point to them, still, what im talking about is taking the elephant as a base to compare and why the jadg doesnt offer anything notable over it while being considerably more expensive and with clear weaknesess over it.
27 Apr 2016, 11:20 AM
#20
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959



From my personal experience it requires 2 vet2 su-85 to keep a Jagdtiger stunlocked.

The Jagdtiger has 15 range more than the Elefant (thats the range difference of a KT and a Jackson). The "slightly" more reload time is pretty much unnoticable at 0.05 sec longer. The gun has better accuracy and far lower scatter.

It has 25 more range than any other allied tank.


Not to mention JT 2 shots all best allies tank destroyers with its 320 damage including Sherman FireFly (640hp), SU85 (640hp), Jackson (480hp)

and JT with its frontal 525 armor, allies best tank destroyers chance of penetrations to JT are:

Sherman FireFly: 40/46/49 % at far/mid/close distance

Jackson: 38/42/46 % at far/mid/close distance

SU85: 34/36/38 % at far/mid/close distance


and goodluck getting close to JT with its 85 range as it 2 shots all the above-mentioned tanks (of range 60), and all it's AT support.

All in all, I think the most questionable part of JT is its 525 frontal armor.

P.S. JT has 1280 hp and FireFly has 200, Jackson 200, and SU85 160 dmg. That means one FireFly or Jackson needs to successfully penetrate 7 and SU85 8 shots to JT to destroy it.
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