people use strange logic on panzerschreck.
26 Apr 2016, 07:41 AM
#41
Posts: 474
So we are all in agreement then? Raketen op plz nerf?
26 Apr 2016, 07:51 AM
#42
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
And that's where explosives come in. Explosive weapons of any sort vs Raketenwerfer = instant wipe + free AT gun.
You mean that stuff USF and UKF only get with 1 doctrine?
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26 Apr 2016, 07:52 AM
#43
Posts: 484
Was gonna make this an edit but in the light of that, I'll make it a separate post:
Funny thing is when I played OKW, I didn't much like the raketen, becuase it is so fragile and easy to clear; so i would always steal opponent AT instead. But playing against OKW, I wouldn't turn down a raketen, and playing as say Brits with a raketen, you don't have a shrek blob to back it up with. So I had to learn to use the raketen on its own, which I didn't with OKW.
It might be the case - I hope so - that the removal of shreks from OKW will prompt players to explore what the raketen can do, and it might turn out to be better than it appears.
Funny thing is when I played OKW, I didn't much like the raketen, becuase it is so fragile and easy to clear; so i would always steal opponent AT instead. But playing against OKW, I wouldn't turn down a raketen, and playing as say Brits with a raketen, you don't have a shrek blob to back it up with. So I had to learn to use the raketen on its own, which I didn't with OKW.
It might be the case - I hope so - that the removal of shreks from OKW will prompt players to explore what the raketen can do, and it might turn out to be better than it appears.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
26 Apr 2016, 08:37 AM
#44
Posts: 1159
Raketen isnt that bad, I quite like it.
But on the face of it, seems odd to me to remove shreks when Axis are normally designed around good AT with not so good AI. The opposite being true for allies, they have lots of strong AI options from an early stage, with AT being more of a struggle.
Ost have fausts, shreks, paks, tellars- all very very important.
OKW having just fausts and rakketen does not seem to compare.
Perhaps OKW are supposed to utilize Puma and make up for getting a dedicated AT unit with the SMGs on Volks.
Perhaps that may work. It just seems contrary to all previous axis design templates.
But on the face of it, seems odd to me to remove shreks when Axis are normally designed around good AT with not so good AI. The opposite being true for allies, they have lots of strong AI options from an early stage, with AT being more of a struggle.
Ost have fausts, shreks, paks, tellars- all very very important.
OKW having just fausts and rakketen does not seem to compare.
Perhaps OKW are supposed to utilize Puma and make up for getting a dedicated AT unit with the SMGs on Volks.
Perhaps that may work. It just seems contrary to all previous axis design templates.
26 Apr 2016, 08:43 AM
#45
Posts: 484
Chilling in buildings, the definition of an aggressive AT gun.
Situationally, yes. Occupying a building on a tank's flank and whaling away works wonders. In the same situation, a conventional AT gun would move slower, take longer to set up, and get into trouble making it's way to a line of sight. And because you can retreat it, you can even risk taking some fire if necessary to reach that building.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
26 Apr 2016, 08:51 AM
#46
Posts: 500
Nobody uses Raketens in buildings because it cannot prioritize tanks if it is in a building and will shoot at anything. Also it takes much longer than to just a move it.
26 Apr 2016, 09:08 AM
#47
Posts: 345
Chilling in buildings, the definition of an aggressive AT gun.
Can´t you get profit of a garrison ATG? oh well, then, it is clear why you think it a bad ATG....
Retreat???? that is for cowards right? cloack? cowards!!!!
if you can´t get bussines of those advantages, then, you are using wrong your ATG in my noob opinion.
Again, good luck retreating any other ATG when calliop fires at it.
Not saying it is better or worse than others, it is just different and you have to use it as you are supposed to use it....
An already muni starved faction (OKW) is now more muni starved and still can't build caches.
26 Apr 2016, 09:15 AM
#49
Posts: 484
Nobody uses Raketens in buildings because it cannot prioritize tanks if it is in a building and will shoot at anything. Also it takes much longer than to just a move it.
It will shoot at infantry if that is the only target available, but not if there is some juicy armour.
So I agree that merely parking it in a building is not very useful, as it will give itself away and be avoided. But that wasn't how I described using it.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
26 Apr 2016, 12:48 PM
#50
Posts: 207
You mean that stuff USF and UKF only get with 1 doctrine?
Wait so regular sherman with HE rounds is doctrinal now? because no it isnt and allied tanks generally have better AI so thats why rakettans die so easily in the hands of axis players.
26 Apr 2016, 12:51 PM
#51
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Wait so regular sherman with HE rounds is doctrinal now? because no it isnt and allied tanks generally have better AI so thats why rakettans die so easily in the hands of axis players.
If by "allied tanks" you mean exclusively USF sherman, then you are right(talking about generalist tanks).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Apr 2016, 12:55 PM
#52
Posts: 609
Can´t you get profit of a garrison ATG? oh well, then, it is clear why you think it a bad ATG....
I think you're putting works in my mouth. I said it was poorly suited to an offensive role. Please quote wherever I said it was a bad AT gun in general.
26 Apr 2016, 13:00 PM
#53
Posts: 875 | Subs: 2
You mean that stuff USF and UKF only get with 1 doctrine?
The effective ones are in those doctrines, but still, good point. Don't forget le sexy sexton.
26 Apr 2016, 13:49 PM
#54
Posts: 345
I think you're putting works in my mouth. I said it was poorly suited to an offensive role. Please quote wherever I said it was a bad AT gun in general.
my fault then, apologies Waegukin, it was not my intention to put those word on your mouth....my fault.
and now, having stated I was plain wrong with my qoute....don´t you think that being able to retreat is a great property to use this ATG in a very aggresive way? I mean, when using paks, I always try to screen with greens and mg42 so enemy infantery can hit the atgun.....if you can retreat the atgun, you can put that atgun in the front line, you don´t need to screen with mainline infantery, coz you can reatreat the moment the ATG is at risk....
and cloacking helps to mitigate the short range as enemy armor has no way to avoid the first shoot from the atg...
Well, just my noob opionion...
Again, apologies for my wrong answer to your quoted words.
An already muni starved faction (OKW) is now more muni starved and still can't build caches.
26 Apr 2016, 14:11 PM
#55
Posts: 609
my fault then, apologies Waegukin, it was not my intention to put those word on your mouth....my fault.
and now, having stated I was plain wrong with my qoute....don´t you think that being able to retreat is a great property to use this ATG in a very aggresive way? I mean, when using paks, I always try to screen with greens and mg42 so enemy infantery can hit the atgun.....if you can retreat the atgun, you can put that atgun in the front line, you don´t need to screen with mainline infantery, coz you can reatreat the moment the ATG is at risk....
and cloacking helps to mitigate the short range as enemy armor has no way to avoid the first shoot from the atg...
Well, just my noob opionion...
Again, apologies for my wrong answer to your quoted words.
Its cool man, all good
26 Apr 2016, 15:40 PM
#56
Posts: 207
If by "allied tanks" you mean exclusively USF sherman, then you are right(talking about generalist tanks).
Well the patch hasn't come out yet but based on the notes the t 34 is going to be much better at killing infantry than it was and also the Cromwell can crush better than any axis tank the the comet has the phosphorus grenades and a pretty fast firing gun so I wouldn't say the Sherman is exclusively the only allied tank with better AI abilities compared to axis tanks.
26 Apr 2016, 16:04 PM
#57
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Well the patch hasn't come out yet but based on the notes the t 34 is going to be much better at killing infantry than it was and also the Cromwell can crush better than any axis tank the the comet has the phosphorus grenades and a pretty fast firing gun so I wouldn't say the Sherman is exclusively the only allied tank with better AI abilities compared to axis tanks.
You can play the mod already if you get it from the workshop.
T34 is better, but it doesn't outperform P4 with pintle.
While crushing does kill inf, you can't really put a "firepower" label on it and call it a day.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Apr 2016, 16:08 PM
#58
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
If anything, they should fix raketen. I have the feeling that it hits terrain more than other AT units, and the response time is abysmal.
26 Apr 2016, 16:13 PM
#59
Posts: 959
If anything, they should fix raketen. I have the feeling that it hits terrain more than other AT units, and the response time is abysmal.
Ur feelings are not correct, unfortunately.
26 Apr 2016, 16:18 PM
#60
Posts: 207
You can play the mod already if you get it from the workshop.
T34 is better, but it doesn't outperform P4 with pintle.
While crushing does kill inf, you can't really put a "firepower" label on it and call it a day.
Yeah I guess if thats the case then ill say that allied tanks arnt really that much better in AI but im still worried that raketens wont be able to gain veterency that well because there survivability is so bad because even if you get a crit with a faust and slow it down with engine damage so it cant escape the raketens fire it still has a really good chance of being wiped because the tank will more than likely target the raketen and at less than 50 range the raketen wont last long at all esspecially if the tank has support.
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