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Updates on BALANCE PREVIEW MOD

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25 Apr 2016, 18:41 PM
#301
avatar of Tetley

Posts: 187

More updates? Didn't see the rear armour nerfs for most the heavies before or the changes to the sexton.
25 Apr 2016, 19:02 PM
#302
avatar of Livingdead

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 18:34 PMNinjaWJ


yes it was a nerf but keep in mind all heavy tanks got an armor decrease as well


Aye that does make it better I can withdraw that complaint.
25 Apr 2016, 19:26 PM
#303
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 18:41 PMTetley
More updates? Didn't see the rear armour nerfs for most the heavies before or the changes to the sexton.


Read again:


https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/241299/april-27th-balance-preview-mod-release-notes#latest
25 Apr 2016, 20:00 PM
#304
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

222, flamer halftracks, AA halftracks, Panzer 2, 250 halftracks (rare). All of these are countered by the T70, and the T70 is also extremely lethal against infantry and is part of the natural tech progression for Soviets.

Doesn't the 222 and the P2 fair well against the T70?


And while we don't see AA HT cause of it's ease of use, doesn't a defensive AA HT deal a considerable amount of damage on approach?

25 Apr 2016, 22:48 PM
#305
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

>USA now gets starting Mortar...

If this makes it to main game, I think I'll be done with CoH2 for good...

The main counter for Ost/OKW was MG/Mortar against the hordes of Riflemen rushing to the shingle.
With that gone, it's RIP Axis
25 Apr 2016, 22:51 PM
#306
avatar of SlaYoU

Posts: 400

>USA now gets starting Mortar...

If this makes it to main game, I think I'll be done with CoH2 for good...

The main counter for Ost/OKW was MG/Mortar against the hordes of Riflemen rushing to the shingle.
With that gone, it's RIP Axis


Welcome to the uninstall bandwagon :)
25 Apr 2016, 22:59 PM
#307
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

>USA now gets starting Mortar...

If this makes it to main game, I think I'll be done with CoH2 for good...

The main counter for Ost/OKW was MG/Mortar against the hordes of Riflemen rushing to the shingle.
With that gone, it's RIP Axis


And where is your MP going? If the USF is getting a mortar, they're hurting how many other squads and units they'll have on the field in exchange for indirect-fire.

If it's early game, you could probably push the USF off the field if the mortar arrives before the officer as they are down a rifle squad.

If we're talking mid-late game, reposition or counter-barrage. I don't think pack howitzers being on the field is death for Ostheer or OKW and that hits a lot harder. It'd probably be easier to make more rifles and spam smoke than to wait for mortar smoke and be down a rifle squad.

Also remember, all of this is a Preview nothing is set in stone. For all we know, they scrap the changes and Sturmtiger rockets could be fired from the Kubel.
25 Apr 2016, 22:59 PM
#308
avatar of bingo12345

Posts: 304

>USA now gets starting Mortar...

If this makes it to main game, I think I'll be done with CoH2 for good...

The main counter for Ost/OKW was MG/Mortar against the hordes of Riflemen rushing to the shingle.
With that gone, it's RIP Axis


don't hurry. play it and think.
25 Apr 2016, 23:05 PM
#309
avatar of bingo12345

Posts: 304



And where is your MP going? If the USF is getting a mortar, they're hurting how many other squads and units they'll have on the field in exchange for indirect-fire.

If it's early game, you could probably push the USF off the field if the mortar arrives before the officer as they are down a rifle squad.

If we're talking mid-late game, reposition or counter-barrage. I don't think pack howitzers being on the field is death for Ostheer or OKW and that hits a lot harder. It'd probably be easier to make more rifles and spam smoke than to wait for mortar smoke and be down a rifle squad.

Also remember, all of this is a Preview nothing is set in stone. For all we know, they scrap the changes and Sturmtiger rockets could be fired from the Kubel.


mostly agree to you. how do you think about pack howitzer's role and mortar's role?
25 Apr 2016, 23:15 PM
#310
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13



mostly agree to you. how do you think about pack howitzer's role and mortar's role?


I always imagined the pack howitzer being a better barrage weapon, having range, better AOE, OHK radius, and just raw power. Mortar is cheaper and earlier, but must be used closer to the front, doesn't hit as hard, fires faster, is more mobile, and is worse against structures when it comes to destroying them outright.

Of course I have no idea what the stats for the 60mm mortar will be.
25 Apr 2016, 23:16 PM
#311
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 22:51 PMSlaYoU

Welcome to the uninstall bandwagon :)

Lol, not quite there yet mate


*Good Counter points*
Also remember, all of this is a Preview nothing is set in stone. For all we know, they scrap the changes and Sturmtiger rockets could be fired from the Kubel.

Having mortar will render the pack howitzer obsolete.
Overall you give good counter-points.
Lol @ Kubel. That would make my day


don't hurry. play it and think.

Yeah true
25 Apr 2016, 23:28 PM
#312
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

Here's my opinion from actually playing the mod, no theory crafting here:

The USF mortar is subpar at best at lethal fire support. its main perks are F R E E smoke and its amazing pack up speed. And it's vet 1 phosphorus rounds are amazing but: good luck getting and keeping vet 1 however because It's extremely easy to decrew; I could swear the crew are wearing bullet magnets. One LMG gren/ pgrens can gun it down nigh instantly, though again it packs up pretty fast...still meh

In addition to that, the range is pretty low, further compounding the issue. The pack howie is much much better at pure damage, while having likely 3x the range and the 6 man crew which enables it to survive in its natural habitat.

Anyway, it is not a replacement for the pack howie, and I would say the MHT is much better Lethal indirect than the M2. However, the smoke spam capability of this mortar is not to be underestimated either.
26 Apr 2016, 00:01 AM
#313
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1


Having mortar will render the pack howitzer obsolete.
Maybe in the same way having combat engineers makes Shock troops obsolete...
26 Apr 2016, 08:56 AM
#314
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959



That's indeed the whole point with panzershrecks. OKW has many specialized anti-infantry units and a crappy AT gun. The panzershreks were the glue that held the faction together and allowed for several different playstyles. I don't see how this was a bad thing.

All of the changes made in the past that led to more variety always improved the game. Nerfing of the call-in meta made a lot more commanders viable for all factions. Removing OKWs resource penalty opened up a lot more strategies for them. Removing shreks will do the opposite of that.


your last sentence is absolutely wrong. No faction among all 5 factions has the diversity of units OKW has and none of them can adopt to play various playstyles and strategies as OKW has. why one may thing OKW has problem without shreck? just compare it to OST! OKW has great infantry, Obers, falls, panzerfusiliers, JLIs, sturmpios, even without shreck, OKW still has the best Anti Tank options in the game. They have rocketen which has cammo, retreat and garrison options, they have the best light, medium, and heavy tank destroyer in the game (puma, jp4, JT). with panzerfuast granted to volks, they will have snare ability to volks, falls, and fussiliers.
not to mention the other benefits they have over other factions, most importantly their trucks, etc.
There is no way in the world OKW will have problem without shrecks with all their AT options, the players just need to adopt and instead of just relying on volks shreck blobs, try to use all the available AT options they have, i.e. invest fuel, mp etc on armor or rocketen, as OST does.
26 Apr 2016, 09:21 AM
#315
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

>USA now gets starting Mortar...

If this makes it to main game, I think I'll be done with CoH2 for good...

The main counter for Ost/OKW was MG/Mortar against the hordes of Riflemen rushing to the shingle.
With that gone, it's RIP Axis


Mortars aren't free and they don't insta wipe HMG teams. A USF player building a mortar squad isn't going to be having the same pushing power as a USF player who gets another rifle squad instead.
26 Apr 2016, 09:23 AM
#316
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 08:56 AMAladdin


your last sentence is absolutely wrong. No faction among all 5 factions has the diversity of units OKW has and none of them can adopt to play various playstyles and strategies as OKW has. why one may thing OKW has problem without shreck? just compare it to OST! OKW has great infantry, Obers, falls, panzerfusiliers, JLIs, sturmpios, even without shreck, OKW still has the best Anti Tank options in the game. They have rocketen which has cammo, retreat and garrison options, they have the best light, medium, and heavy tank destroyer in the game (puma, jp4, JT). with panzerfuast granted to volks, they will have snare ability to volks, falls, and fussiliers.
not to mention the other benefits they have over other factions, most importantly their trucks, etc.
There is no way in the world OKW will have problem without shrecks with all their AT options, the players just need to adopt and instead of just relying on volks shreck blobs, try to use all the available AT options they have, i.e. invest fuel, mp etc on armor or rocketen, as OST does.


The only adapting OKW is going to do is go for Puma every game because you are simply not going to counter allied light tank rushes with medtruck units and a 50 range AT gun.
26 Apr 2016, 09:48 AM
#317
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959


with medtruck units and a 50 range AT gun.
and with cammo, and with retreat ability, and with garrison ability, mines, faust, etc
by the way, most players at the moment with how strong fast mech truck is are now going mech anyways, at least not that i've seen.
it's a part of adopting in the game, ur enemy wants to rush light vehicle? you counter it with ur better light vehicle, ur enemy wants to skip light vehicles? u can adopt accordingly. not every game u have to skip or build any truck, it depends on how your opponent techs. maybe if every day ur opponent wants to rush light vehicle then every day u also have to rush ur own right?
that's how Ost has always been, Ost has AT gun with 60 range and OKW 50 range? instead OKW's AT has camo which means the enemy can't get away with the first shot. OKW's at gun is squishy? when it trouble it can retreat unlike any other in the game. and it can also garrison, u can be too aggressive with it and retreat when in trouble
They thing is, it's gonna be a different playstyle.
26 Apr 2016, 10:06 AM
#318
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



The only adapting OKW is going to do is go for Puma every game because you are simply not going to counter allied light tank rushes with medtruck units and a 50 range AT gun.


Ostheer doesn´t need puma to kill Stuart. They have pfaust + Pak + 222. OKW have Raken + pfaust + HT or Puma or Luch.

Ostheer = pak (high range) + 4men gren pfaust + low damage output 222
OKW = raken (low range but camo) + 5men volk pfasut + high damage output Luch or Puma.

Something everyone seems to forget is OKW is getting HMG34 from T1 and HMG42 from 2 doctrines. This means: easy lockdown flanks, better territory control, forcing opponent to flank more etc... What OKW loses in AT department OKW wins in AI department.
You'll need less volks to control your territory while still keeping OKW push ability with Sturm and Kubel.

I have some mitigated feeling about OKW getting stock HMG and losing shrecks, in a way OKW is losing its identity. But since this identity is full of craps and spam, it is definitively better to change it. Same if this means having something bit more similar than Ostheer, both Faction remains vastly different.

26 Apr 2016, 10:27 AM
#319
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362


Doesn't the 222 and the P2 fair well against the T70?


And while we don't see AA HT cause of it's ease of use, doesn't a defensive AA HT deal a considerable amount of damage on approach?

OKW Flak Halftrack will do considerable damage/might win against a US AAHT if the it's deployed and the US vehicle is approaching it. It stands no chance unsupported against a T-70 however (just can't penetrate reliably).

My assumption regarding the upcoming OKW vs. meta is the following. If I see an OKW player go med truck, I'm going to spam Stuarts/T-70s/Quads like crazy. If I see Mechanized and a Puma, I'm just going to get Bazookas/Guards and then do exactly the same thing.
26 Apr 2016, 11:12 AM
#320
avatar of DiePest

Posts: 90

Since everyone is discussing the removal of Schrecks and how aweful the Shreck Blobs are (were), I have a serios question.

First of all I´m not a very experienced player and I´m also not a very good player. So while this might be a l2p issue on my had, I ask myself why rifleblobs ( bar, 1919 and zooks) aren´t considered a problem. Can someone explain that to me? I know there is quite a difference stats wise between Schreck and Zook but non the less zook blobs are pretty potent against tanks. Again judging from my own very limited perspective and streams and casts that I usually watch.

I feel like the Pershing commander really works well with zook blobs. Yesterdays propagandacast is kind of an example for that.

Why not make all those weopons of all factions take up two slots on the units?

As I said I´m looking for an explaination here because with my rank and skill in the game I won´t judge if something needs changing. i just find it not very pleasing to play against so it all comes down to personal experiance and preferrance. I find it just odd that unsupportet infantry of any faction can fight an with infantry supportet, anti infantry tank like for example the Ostwind.
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