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Flare mines - OKW gave us solution!

21 Mar 2016, 13:07 PM
#21
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673



I'd leave it as it's now, since it can kill something so you need to take some time to place them. There should be a maximum to kill of like 2 models, since it can wipe all units when you pop them out of the building, which is just plain stupid.


I think, that flare mines should not deal damage at all. It might be unrealistic, but if that mine can kill even few models, what for then USSR needs doctrinal anti-infantry PMD mines? They suppoused to do same - deal small damage to enemy infantry, they are cheap also.

21 Mar 2016, 13:59 PM
#22
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

Tripflare itself is fine, no point in completely changing the function of something that works. Its only issue is that it shows up on guards and shocks that would have been better off with other vet abilities.
21 Mar 2016, 15:05 PM
#23
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1793 | Subs: 1

They'd probably see more use if you reduced the build time a little bit. Or it would nice if the flare also pinged your mini-map if you are using them to cover your flank as an "early warning" measure. Otherwise they are good aside from door-wiping cheese.
21 Mar 2016, 15:21 PM
#24
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2298 | Subs: 4

Trip wire flares are good, and I think it is fine on Cons and engis, but it's ridiculous that guards, shocktroops, and penals get trip wire flares too. Not enough variety in this game. Replace it with something more useful that fits the unit better. Likewise, they should change the capping point bonus on soviet tanks, and not every Ostheer squad should get healing thing either.
21 Mar 2016, 15:37 PM
#25
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Think about this: a mine will kill between 1/4 models most of the time depending the formation. That's for 30 muni. For 30 muni, flares are guaranteed 3 models or more depending formation on top of giving vision.


The only problem is
"...Its only issue is that it shows up on guards and shocks that would have been better off with other vet abilities."


21 Mar 2016, 15:57 PM
#26
avatar of rejfor

Posts: 97

Flare mines are good - once I killed the whole squad of sturmpios with 4 flare mines in 1 second. Dude was surprised as hell and thoght I'm a cheater. Don't touch flares on conscripts just change vet1 ability for other units like Guards, Shock Troopers, CE.
Uhu
21 Mar 2016, 17:20 PM
#27
avatar of Uhu

Posts: 55



I think, that flare mines should not deal damage at all. It might be unrealistic, but if that mine can kill even few models, what for then USSR needs doctrinal anti-infantry PMD mines? They suppoused to do same - deal small damage to enemy infantry, they are cheap also.




PMD mines are cheap, incredibly fast build, and cover a wider area. Not to mention a group of them will temp stun a tank. It's useful.

Flare mines are great. I use them often. Just remove it from guards, shocks.
22 Mar 2016, 07:27 AM
#28
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

I have an idea guys, maybe give instead of flare mines to soveit troops in vet 1 "Hit the dirt" ability? It may be usefull in that way.
22 Mar 2016, 08:50 AM
#29
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

I have an idea guys, maybe give instead of flare mines to soveit troops in vet 1 "Hit the dirt" ability? It may be usefull in that way.


Would make them even more survivable (in combination with 6 man group). Although I like it more than those flare mines.
22 Mar 2016, 12:28 PM
#30
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2016, 15:21 PMTobis
Trip wire flares are good, and I think it is fine on Cons and engis, but it's ridiculous that guards, shocktroops, and penals get trip wire flares too. Not enough variety in this game. Replace it with something more useful that fits the unit better. Likewise, they should change the capping point bonus on soviet tanks, and not every Ostheer squad should get healing thing either.

Yeah, it's not horrid, it's just painfully redundant as the vet 1 of every Soviet infantry unit.

...whereas the Wehrmacht's Medkit is somewhat less painfully redundant in return for having a terrible cost-effectiveness ratio. But yeah, they also shouldn't all be using it.
22 Mar 2016, 16:11 PM
#31
avatar of isoul

Posts: 48

I used them maybe twice on abandoned weapons and seemed it kill some of the weapon's crew... I am not that sure and need to test it again.

Then again, having every single infantry type using Trip-wire flares is silly. The tank capping, while it might be of some utility, its more fitting to a T-70 while heavier tanks need something to boost their offense/defense (T-34 needs it!) rather than utility...
22 Mar 2016, 16:27 PM
#32
avatar of Frost

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

Does it matter that you gonna lost 440mp or less to 10 muni or 30 muni? Do not spawn it that aggresive and everything will be fine. Imo spawning in buildings is one of the stupidest ability in game and if its still working like now, flares shouldn't be changed
22 Mar 2016, 18:56 PM
#33
avatar of RedDevilCG

Posts: 154

What's stupid about special forces coming out of infiltrated positions?
On topic, flare mines are used in ESL, and quite often too. Mine doorways with them to wipe whole squads exiting buildings, or to take out a man on German troops entering buildings. Plus it reveals everything around the building too.
22 Mar 2016, 19:00 PM
#34
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

What's stupid about special forces coming out of infiltrated positions?
On topic, flare mines are used in ESL, and quite often too. Mine doorways with them to wipe whole squads exiting buildings, or to take out a man on German troops entering buildings. Plus it reveals everything around the building too.


Again, I 100% sure, that flare mine shouldn't have damage effects. It's totally wrong! For to deal damage USSR must use other mines, purpoused for that. I would look at "flare mines damage" like at nasty bug, which makes that ability better, but should be fixed anyway.
22 Mar 2016, 19:03 PM
#35
avatar of RedDevilCG

Posts: 154

If the damage was removed, then they should probably cost 0 munitions, but have a longer cool down to avoid spamming. It would be sad if the Soviets lost them completely though, as it's an interesting quirk for that army.
22 Mar 2016, 19:05 PM
#36
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

If the damage was removed, then they should probably cost 0 munitions, but have a longer cool down to avoid spamming. It would be sad if the Soviets lost them completely though, as it's an interesting quirk for that army.


Nobody will use them even for 0 munitions... Too much efforts for random sight. Don't really worth it. And what about "Hit the dirt" for Vet 1? Would be nice, also.
22 Mar 2016, 21:41 PM
#37
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2298 | Subs: 4



Again, I 100% sure, that flare mine shouldn't have damage effects. It's totally wrong! For to deal damage USSR must use other mines, purpoused for that. I would look at "flare mines damage" like at nasty bug, which makes that ability better, but should be fixed anyway.




Nobody will use them even for 0 munitions... Too much efforts for random sight. Don't really worth it. And what about "Hit the dirt" for Vet 1? Would be nice, also.


So basically you are saying we should nerf them so nobody would ever use them again? Because other people find them useful and you don't, you want to drag everyone down to your level so they will replace it with something not shit.
22 Mar 2016, 21:48 PM
#38
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2016, 21:41 PMTobis




So basically you are saying we should nerf them so nobody would ever use them again? Because other people find them useful and you don't, you want to drag everyone down to your level so they will replace it with something not shit.

I dunno, I could get behind rebalancing them without doing damage (preferably with a larger area to activate the flares). The anti-Falls cheese is just silly anyway (as is Falls teleporting out to faust your vehicles and flanking your infantry when you don't mine or wire the buildings, but I digress).
22 Mar 2016, 21:52 PM
#39
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5268

What's stupid about special forces coming out of infiltrated positions?

When partisans were spartisans me and a buddy were using them as main force in a 4v4.. An enemy responded with fallschirmjager... The result was us alternating "infiltration" from a shack XD very silly (its a goodthing the 60 partisans inside that shack didnt bump into the 20 falls or things might have gone south)

Also being able to pop out of a building that was just occupied by the enemy the instant they get out using the same door and melting them is stupid

Infiltrators should "build" from buildings (not a 1 click end that weapon team/Katy/ setting up sws) that if interrupted (building garrisoned) only provides models based on completion (half done=2 models)
Or something to promote less impulsive "infiltration"
As a counter buff to that nerf they should exit the building one at a time and camo outside or something to prevent insta wipe when exiting (also chosing the damn exit door)
23 Mar 2016, 18:00 PM
#40
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



Nobody will use them even for 0 munitions... Too much efforts for random sight. Don't really worth it. And what about "Hit the dirt" for Vet 1? Would be nice, also.


At 0 munition and a slightly faster placement they would be OP IMO.
The value of scouting and knowing the location of your enemy should never be overestimated it. Bad players never use it, good players makes use of it, great players ABUSE it. This applies to all games, from RTS to FPS.

PD: Hit the dirt atm is bad, i don't think you want it. I'll rather have trip wire than HTD.

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