Login

russian armor

Is USF in a bad spot or do I suck

20 Sep 2017, 12:07 PM
#61
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2017, 09:21 AMEsxile


If you manage to defeat the dual kubel/Sturm fast, yes you may be able to have a M20 before his Luch. Otherwise, that's not possible at all.


If he won´t have volks he won´t have any fausts as well.

Also M20 can lure luchs into mine or stuart can hardcounter unsupported luchs
20 Sep 2017, 12:18 PM
#62
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1



If he won´t have volks he won´t have any fausts as well.

Also M20 can lure luchs into mine or stuart can hardcounter unsupported luchs


You are too much in hypothesizes. I'm telling you that you can't have a lieutenant + m20 that far before his Luch vs a OKW player that knows how to use Kubel+Sturm+Volks. He can cap both fuel points if he manages well, you can cap your own fuel if you manage well.
And I love the way you say that a stuart can hardcounter unsupported luchs. You have the talent for a politic career.
20 Sep 2017, 12:39 PM
#63
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2017, 12:18 PMEsxile


You are too much in hypothesizes. I'm telling you that you can't have a lieutenant + m20 that far before his Luch vs a OKW player that knows how to use Kubel+Sturm+Volks. He can cap both fuel points if he manages well, you can cap your own fuel if you manage well.
And I love the way you say that a stuart can hardcounter unsupported luchs. You have the talent for a politic career.


I am just telling you that USF in such a bad spot that it cannot out-abuse OKW. The imbalance created here is nothing compared to imbalanced we had in the past :)

Now, please, end this conversation or else this thread will turn into Esxile vs Hector Argumentation Battle.
20 Sep 2017, 14:42 PM
#64
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053




But USB has free squad every time they tech and early M20 that is literally without counter for some time, as OKW lacks early fausts.

It's not all black and white, every faction has its own BS you jut need to learn to abusee it properly ;)


EDIT: USF also has best cost-efficient tank destroyer in game - m10. They can go first 3 officers and still spam shittons of tanks.

They can also go over 100 pop with pop abuse feature.

Also double pack howie wrecks the garden out of OKW Volks. Much more that double leight from USF riflemen.

I mean what you say is true but do I really want more riflemen? And they bleed a fuck ton more because the stupid officer reinforce bug thing. It'd be better if lt and captain were a small utility squad like the major IMO.

Double pack howie is asking to get stuka'd and has like half the auto fire range of leigs and a massive barrage cooldown, but it does absolutely wreck shit if you make it work (and your opponent is slightly senile). Double pack howie also usually means no mg and no at guns, the latter because that's like >600 mp and you already had to spam rifles and probably bled a lot.
20 Sep 2017, 15:38 PM
#65
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7


I mean what you say is true but do I really want more riflemen? And they bleed a fuck ton more because the stupid officer reinforce bug thing. It'd be better if lt and captain were a small utility squad like the major IMO.

Double pack howie is asking to get stuka'd and has like half the auto fire range of leigs and a massive barrage cooldown, but it does absolutely wreck shit if you make it work (and your opponent is slightly senile). Double pack howie also usually means no mg and no at guns, the latter because that's like >600 mp and you already had to spam rifles and probably bled a lot.


I want more riflemen for free. A free squad is never a bad squad. Especially if it comes with thompson, pasive sprint at vet3. Lieuhtenant even comes with a BAR. Because I receive those free squads I am able to get a solid army composition while building ONLY 3 Riflemen. This allows me to use saved manpower for example on another utility vehicle or a team weapon or acquire an ambulance sooner.

If you force your opponent to buy stuka in 1v1 then you have already won the "tank cold war". He will have 100 fuel less for normal tanks and thus you can outproduce him with your fuel-cheap M10 much more easily, destroy his tanks first while his rakks are bombarded by howies, then hunt the stuka.
20 Sep 2017, 16:29 PM
#66
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

I do love how all the arguments about how USF can stand up to OKW this patch depends on you outplaying your opponent, they being worse than you, or you getting Lucky.
I'd listen to what Tobis said, as he plays both faction and knows better, even when you win you just don't have any fun when playing vs OKW as USF because you are always on the backfoot unless they throw away key units like their starting Sturms or their 1st Luchs.
20 Sep 2017, 19:16 PM
#67
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Playing usf against okw is like playing either axis faction against brits: you're left looking for a different game afterwards. :D

I miss old soviet v ostheer. That remained a fun matchup for the longest time.
23 Sep 2017, 04:01 AM
#68
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

I do love how all the arguments about how USF can stand up to OKW this patch depends on you outplaying your opponent, they being worse than you, or you getting Lucky.
I'd listen to what Tobis said, as he plays both faction and knows better, even when you win you just don't have any fun when playing vs OKW as USF because you are always on the backfoot unless they throw away key units like their starting Sturms or their 1st Luchs.

It's not really the luchs that's OP or any of the OKW units, it's just that USF has to shoot itself in the foot to deal with the luchs. If you go for stuart to hardcounter they shove an Ostwind down your throat. If you go for bazookas or ATguns then you will be losing to the call-in infantry.

USF is a faction that is designed around being hyper aggressive and forcing a response from the other team. The really strong call-in meta lets OKW turn that on its head and USF is just not equipped to deal with that right now. Everyone assumed the next patch would fix the problem when scope opened up, but now... <444>_<444>
23 Sep 2017, 04:46 AM
#69
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2017, 04:01 AMTobis

It's not really the luchs that's OP or any of the OKW units, it's just that USF has to shoot itself in the foot to deal with the luchs. If you go for stuart to hardcounter they shove an Ostwind down your throat. If you go for bazookas or ATguns then you will be losing to the call-in infantry.

USF is a faction that is designed around being hyper aggressive and forcing a response from the other team. The really strong call-in meta lets OKW turn that on its head and USF is just not equipped to deal with that right now. Everyone assumed the next patch would fix the problem when scope opened up, but now... <444>_<444>


So the easiest way to explain it is that OKW is just better at doing what USF should be doing?

As of late in the few 1vs1 games I've played and won vs OKW it's always the dice rolling my way or the enemy throwing away units.
23 Sep 2017, 07:25 AM
#70
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2017, 04:01 AMTobis

It's not really the luchs that's OP or any of the OKW units, it's just that USF has to shoot itself in the foot to deal with the luchs. If you go for stuart to hardcounter they shove an Ostwind down your throat. If you go for bazookas or ATguns then you will be losing to the call-in infantry.

USF is a faction that is designed around being hyper aggressive and forcing a response from the other team. The really strong call-in meta lets OKW turn that on its head and USF is just not equipped to deal with that right now. Everyone assumed the next patch would fix the problem when scope opened up, but now... <444>_<444>


I thought that M10 (spam) > Ostwind
23 Sep 2017, 19:05 PM
#71
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



I thought that M10 (spam) > Ostwind

That supports his point though as m10 spam is reactive as opposed to aggressive. You spam m10s because the opponent made/called in tanks (especially ostwinds). You counter that tank and your m10s have nothing to do except maybe run over obers and sturms and be annoying. Bulldozers are more comparable in role IMO.
23 Sep 2017, 19:12 PM
#72
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7


That supports his point though as m10 spam is reactive as opposed to aggressive. You spam m10s because the opponent made/called in tanks (especially ostwinds). You counter that tank and your m10s have nothing to do except maybe run over obers and sturms and be annoying. Bulldozers are more comparable in role IMO.


Ofcourse that you will follow up your M10s with Dozers but OKW cannot follow his Oswinds with anything that can counter Dozers nor M10 spam. Thats the point.
23 Sep 2017, 22:01 PM
#73
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1



Ofcourse that you will follow up your M10s with Dozers but OKW cannot follow his Oswinds with anything that can counter Dozers nor M10 spam. Thats the point.


Why is that? jpz4 coupled with raketen are a thing.
23 Sep 2017, 22:23 PM
#74
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2017, 22:01 PMEsxile


Why is that? jpz4 coupled with raketen are a thing.




The point of M10 and Oswinds is to go around teching. So if you build jp4 USF player will have 3 M10s already, if OKW player went oswind first, USF player will have 4 M10s
23 Sep 2017, 23:57 PM
#75
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4





The point of M10 and Oswinds is to go around teching. So if you build jp4 USF player will have 3 M10s already, if OKW player went oswind first, USF player will have 4 M10s

OKW can handle just fine with infantry if the opponent isn't going to make any real vehicles. Gives them plenty of time to stall and build up vet, or play conservatively with their own tanks.

This is easily fixed with call-in readjustment. It's just too good to crutch on them right now when you don't have to give up anything besides a doctrine pick to get them. That really isn't that big of a deterrent when the OKW and USF commanders with call-ins are the best ones anyways.
24 Sep 2017, 15:49 PM
#76
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1





The point of M10 and Oswinds is to go around teching. So if you build jp4 USF player will have 3 M10s already, if OKW player went oswind first, USF player will have 4 M10s


If the USF player spend all his fuel on dedicated AT units, then you have different windows of opportunities like Tobis said.
24 Sep 2017, 20:20 PM
#77
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2017, 15:49 PMEsxile


If the USF player spend all his fuel on dedicated AT units, then you have different windows of opportunities like Tobis said.


Yeah in my experience infantry wise OKW and USF are evenly matched until you double up and hit Vet3 with your Rifles, even then it will be a battle of atrition, if you don't get some regular Shermans to support your Rifles eventually you will still lose even if you mass enough M10s to deny enemy Armor entirely.
25 Sep 2017, 04:36 AM
#78
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2017, 15:49 PMEsxile


If the USF player spend all his fuel on dedicated AT units, then you have different windows of opportunities like Tobis said.


I was trying to point out that if OKW player techs he will be 120 fuel behind. So you can have bulldozer and 2-3 M10s while he will only have Ostwind (which will probably be already dead against 2xm10 that come at the same time) and single JP4

That's the reason why call in meta is superior in every way and why ostwind isn't as viable as armor co


EDIT: All I'm trying to say is not that USF is better than OKW. I'm trying to say USF is Viable against OKW if you go M20 into Stuart into armored Co. USF has all tool necessary to defeat OKW in every part of the game then
25 Sep 2017, 05:50 AM
#79
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2017, 06:47 AMEsxile

I think Jar For Fett listed well what USF has over OKW, which is mostly nothing relevant.

No, what I did was expand upon a post that was asking for what USF has that OKW doesn't have an equivalent/analogue of. I was directly comparing the presence units/unit types/structures, not listing advantages. For example, I didn't list things like "free squads with tech" because that doesn't count as any of the above. I'd appreciate it if you didn't take my post wildly out of context in order to reaffirm and support your own beliefs.
25 Sep 2017, 05:54 AM
#80
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2



I was trying to point out that if OKW player techs he will be 120 fuel behind. So you can have bulldozer and 2-3 M10s while he will only have Ostwind (which will probably be already dead against 2xm10 that come at the same time) and single JP4

135 fuel. People never seem to count the 15 fuel from the sWs for some reason.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

397 users are online: 1 member and 396 guests
empirescurropt
14 posts in the last 24h
40 posts in the last week
94 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44643
Welcome our newest member, Leiliqu96
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM