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If relic were to employ a fan, who would be the best pick?

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1 Mar 2016, 12:47 PM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 12:28 PMwuff
Misconception: Game Development Is Easy

Here’s Armin Ibrisagic of Coffee Stain Studios, the folks behind Goat Simulator, describing a common game development misunderstanding:



This “game development is easy” myth usually goes hand-in-hand with the misconception of “lazy developers”. People who don’t work in game development don’t understand that game development is a constant compromise between good content/features, and time/resources.


Believe me, developers and designers are getting a lot of flak from players :D
Thing is, we KNOW THE REALITY OF BACKSTAGE, we DO care about the game, because this is what makes our families go on and our plates full.

We have very clear picture on the players and their needs, we also fully realize when they just talk out of their asses. However we can't talk back to them(in general) and rely on community managers to rely all info, community mood, playerfound issues and so on from community to us, however we do not have the freedom to give as much info as we have.

There are situations when systems are made, QA tested and greenlighted, but everything goes down the drain the moment patch goes life, because it wasn't possible to test something in massive environment of life game.

Being a game dev or designer is a lot of fun, yeah, but its also a pain in the ass at times, especially when things don't go as planned and they often do.

Even with implementing simplest of systems(by the players eyes), we have to take into account a shit ton of variables and possibilities to try and predict how the system will act, will it be good, will it not be abusable and if there is no way around it-how to diminish it to make it as fair as possible(CoH2 example would be vehicle crews).

I am not allowed to talk back at my own projects forums, but GOD I would give up my months worth of salary to punch to the face an idiot why screams how "easy and fast" stuff is to make and flames when stuff is not fixed enough.

I'm extremely patient with relic, because I know what kind of bullshit they have to deal with and since I love the game, I'll support it and the crew.

Damn.... now I really want to punch one of these entitled, self righteous pricks :foreveralone:
1 Mar 2016, 13:02 PM
#42
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1



Believe me, developers and designers are getting a lot of flak from players :D
Thing is, we KNOW THE REALITY OF BACKSTAGE, we DO care about the game, because this is what makes our families go on and our plates full.

We have very clear picture on the players and their needs, we also fully realize when they just talk out of their asses. However we can't talk back to them(in general) and rely on community managers to rely all info, community mood, playerfound issues and so on from community to us, however we do not have the freedom to give as much info as we have.

There are situations when systems are made, QA tested and greenlighted, but everything goes down the drain the moment patch goes life, because it wasn't possible to test something in massive environment of life game.

Being a game dev or designer is a lot of fun, yeah, but its also a pain in the ass at times, especially when things don't go as planned and they often do.

Even with implementing simplest of systems(by the players eyes), we have to take into account a shit ton of variables and possibilities to try and predict how the system will act, will it be good, will it not be abusable and if there is no way around it-how to diminish it to make it as fair as possible(CoH2 example would be vehicle crews).

I am not allowed to talk back at my own projects forums, but GOD I would give up my months worth of salary to punch to the face an idiot why screams how "easy and fast" stuff is to make and flames when stuff is not fixed enough.

I'm extremely patient with relic, because I know what kind of bullshit they have to deal with and since I love the game, I'll support it and the crew.

Damn.... now I really want to punch one of these entitled, self righteous pricks :foreveralone:


oh, I know..

I drive a car everyday, therefore I understand how to build a car :snfBarton:








1 Mar 2016, 13:43 PM
#43
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

Cruzz and Romeo: Game Engine devs
Ciez and Luvnest: General Balance/ maps devs
Stormless and Hans: Community managers


Not sure about Hans tho... but Stormless would be great.
1 Mar 2016, 13:47 PM
#44
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959



If only Vancouver wasn't on another side of the planet :romeoHype:
I could even bring a community manager with me :snfPeter:


JUST DO IT!
1 Mar 2016, 14:43 PM
#45
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

You don´t work at the War thunder game by coincidence? :D


No thanks... I prefer the game as it is. :D They just need to fix the emplacement bullshit and some artillery issues. Some commanders need to be buffed and I´m good.
1 Mar 2016, 15:24 PM
#46
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1295 | Subs: 1



Believe me, developers and designers are getting a lot of flak from players :D
Thing is, we KNOW THE REALITY OF BACKSTAGE, we DO care about the game, because this is what makes our families go on and our plates full.

We have very clear picture on the players and their needs, we also fully realize when they just talk out of their asses. However we can't talk back to them(in general) and rely on community managers to rely all info, community mood, playerfound issues and so on from community to us, however we do not have the freedom to give as much info as we have.

There are situations when systems are made, QA tested and greenlighted, but everything goes down the drain the moment patch goes life, because it wasn't possible to test something in massive environment of life game.

Being a game dev or designer is a lot of fun, yeah, but its also a pain in the ass at times, especially when things don't go as planned and they often do.

Even with implementing simplest of systems(by the players eyes), we have to take into account a shit ton of variables and possibilities to try and predict how the system will act, will it be good, will it not be abusable and if there is no way around it-how to diminish it to make it as fair as possible(CoH2 example would be vehicle crews).

I am not allowed to talk back at my own projects forums, but GOD I would give up my months worth of salary to punch to the face an idiot why screams how "easy and fast" stuff is to make and flames when stuff is not fixed enough.

I'm extremely patient with relic, because I know what kind of bullshit they have to deal with and since I love the game, I'll support it and the crew.

Damn.... now I really want to punch one of these entitled, self righteous pricks :foreveralone:


Yea...i cant read that and not adress it. Im not about to make myself look like a rockstar, im not my gf will tell you im a moron half the time hah. I just want to contrast what "being a designer" and designing a system is like and shed some light on the idea that its just SO DIFFICULT to get this game right.

So i work as an aerospace engineer putting stuff up to the space station in RL. Its very hard. The engineering is hard, the design is hard, the entire process is a bitch. But its very doable if you think through your designs from start to finish, have defined goals, use insightful engineering judgment and rely on empirical evidence and talk to experts in the field to come to conclusions, then move forward with choices that you make to complete the mission. This typically takes under a year to do for a given mission.

Now I come to Relic, a company that has been making seriously kickass RTS games since the 90's and has been working with COH games for a decade now. There is no excuse to have a game like company of heroes 2 with a map pool list that is jumbled (wait for a ladder match look at the map pool list on the right, jesus christ it looks like JUMBLED UNORGANIZED crap). There is no excuse to have the level of glitches in the game that we experienced recently when a patch comes out (quality control??). There is no excuse to have a map pool that STILL isnt up to par for an Esports level competition (1v1 2v2), and there is no excuse for some of the choices that have been made in the past with regards to system design. I will reference this for the 1000th time. https://www.coh2.org/topic/11064/commander-overlap-a-serious-problem

COH is an inherently complex game, which is one reason its great, and yes it is hard to get balance JUST right, that should be ongoing (it must be Esportsable)...but there are times when issues are so glaring and obviously hindering the experience of COH that i wonder where the quality control is, when a balance decision is made, and i wonder if they even have a dedicated mapper at Relic to get the maps where they should be (a critical component to multiplayer COH that always gets overlooked, imagine if all the maps sucked even if balance was perfect how awful would COH2 be). And i understand Relic is working on things, i have no doubt. But to suggest that its SO HARD that these things just cant be done in THREE YEARS, to me, is an absurd claim.

I wonder if serious effort is put in to polishing the menu interface, supporting Esports and taking EDUCATED feedback from groups of experts in different fields of COH (mapping modding balance) because taking feedback from random people is a waste of time money and effort on Relics part. If I, an aerospace engineer, took feedback on how to design something from some jackass on the street who doesnt know anything about engineering, WHY would Relic, a game design company, take advice from a non-expert on ANY aspect of coh when it comes to something like balance or mapping....THEY SHOULDENT. Taking public advice on features and things makes sense. In the cases im talking about, it makes no sense. And hurts the entire community.

In conclusion it is NOT this task that is so hard that its acceptable to see the game where it is.

Between HOMEWORLD and COH ive spent thousands of hours on them mapping and playing. But this is my PLEE to get yourself together. COH2 could beat the shit out of games like SC2 if the right direction was taken. DO IT!

-Love WhiteFlashReborn
1 Mar 2016, 17:14 PM
#47
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 12:28 PMwuff
Misconception: Game Development Is Easy

This “game development is easy” myth usually goes hand-in-hand with the misconception of “lazy developers”. People who don’t work in game development don’t understand that game development is a constant compromise between good content/features, and time/resources.

I've seen this countless times myself to be pretty sure that not literally every game developer ever is as incompetent as their audiences believe, but part of me kinda understands why this keeps happening, as I've very rarely ever seen talks disproving the beliefs.

It feels like to me that even with the greater transparency of many game companies, something might be missing.

Also I want Sanctum 3 now.
1 Mar 2016, 17:21 PM
#48
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

1 Mar 2016, 17:24 PM
#49
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

I like this fan the best:

She could probably replace the balance team.
1 Mar 2016, 17:25 PM
#50
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

My vote is for Mirage_Fla.
1 Mar 2016, 18:28 PM
#51
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Cruzz for QA
1 Mar 2016, 18:48 PM
#52
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



I generally agree but there are some things they really happen to screw up. For example returning bugs like "on me". It is really easy to write down an automatic test that detects this one. After every bug is discovered their developer or tester should first write down a test that check if it is in game, then run it after fix to check if the bug is not present. Then they should run all these tests as regression tests every time they deploy a patch, to make sure no bug returned. These are the basics of software testing, there is not a single reason why one shouldn't do regression testing.
Seb
1 Mar 2016, 18:55 PM
#53
avatar of Seb
Admin Black Badge

Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2

I'm pretty sure it would make no difference. It would just be another employee following whatever system they have in place and whatever goal the higher up are setting. I'm confident they have great people at Relic already, but I feel from the outside that their whole process is not ideal, and their priorities aren't either.
1 Mar 2016, 18:55 PM
#54
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

1 Mar 2016, 18:59 PM
#55
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 18:55 PMRollo


Holy crap did they give that pup ipecac
1 Mar 2016, 19:04 PM
#56
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 18:59 PMVuther

Holy crap did they give that pup ipecac
Guess the poor pup ate chocolate. That´s why it´s so brown.
bC_
1 of 2 Relic postsRelic 1 Mar 2016, 19:09 PM
#57
avatar of bC_
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 102 | Subs: 22

I cant speak for the other departments but you can blame me for that as well.. but for balance I consult Luvnest, Ciez, Lemon, Dusty and many more other community figures to do feedback and balance testing on. Mirage_FLA has been a person that has been mentioned and we will be reaching out to him shortly to join our Illuminati organization.

Again if anyone of you wishes to work at Relic and are qualified for any of these postions visit: http://www.relic.com/#careers

Hell i'll even refer you.
1 Mar 2016, 19:26 PM
#58
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 19:09 PMbC_
I cant speak for the other departments but you can blame me for that as well.. but for balance I consult Luvnest, Ciez, Lemon, Dusty and many more other community figures to do feedback and balance testing on. Mirage_FLA has been a person that has been mentioned and we will be reaching out to him shortly to join our Illuminati organization.

1 Mar 2016, 19:45 PM
#59
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1






Spot on. That's what I've been saying these past few days. The amount of technical issues in inexcusable. Three years is more than enough to fix the bugs. Balance is another discussion and there will always be problems and we've got to deal with it. But just list the number of bugs which were known and present in the Live game for more than 3 month...
1 Mar 2016, 20:55 PM
#60
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1295 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 18:55 PMSeb
I'm pretty sure it would make no difference. It would just be another employee following whatever system they have in place and whatever goal the higher up are setting. I'm confident they have great people at Relic already, but I feel from the outside that their whole process is not ideal, and their priorities aren't either.


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