No light vehicle for ost= go pak40 or die.
Go pak40? Spend 320 mp on pure AT to zone out the light vehicle (good player won't lose the 320/400 hp vehicle to your pak)
320 mp spend on pak = enemy inf beating your inf (with light vehicle harrassing the edge's).
You lose most of the map.
That's ostheer between minute 5-6 en 15 in every match.
Ostheer is on life support
- This thread is locked
28 Jan 2016, 09:11 AM
#61
Posts: 587
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
28 Jan 2016, 09:14 AM
#62
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Not agreeing here.
As seen in ESL, OSTH has no real problem winning against any other faction. I agree it's hard to counter that little window of light vehicles, but imagine ostheer having a real decent counter to that? Then it basically means it has an actual counter against everything which only makes them accel even faster.
Ostheer was really map dependant on ESL in my opinion
28 Jan 2016, 09:16 AM
#63
Posts: 248
No light vehicle for ost= go pak40 or die.
Go pak40? Spend 320 mp on pure AT to zone out the light vehicle (good player won't lose the 320/400 hp vehicle to your pak)
320 mp spend on pak = enemy inf beating your inf (with light vehicle harrassing the edge's).
You lose most of the map.
That's ostheer between minute 5-6 en 15 in every match.
Pretty much.
You need to position your PaK to a T to be able to fend off an AEC/Stuart anyway.
Even if you went 222 instead of a PaK you'd have a hard time because it delays your AT capabilities early on in the game. So you're constantly trying to back peddle your 222 to try and fight a rear echelon squad because against a Captain or Riflemen the 222 will take heavy damage.
28 Jan 2016, 09:27 AM
#64
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Pretty much.
You need to position your PaK to a T to be able to fend off an AEC/Stuart anyway.
Even if you went 222 instead of a PaK you'd have a hard time because it delays your AT capabilities early on in the game. So you're constantly trying to back peddle your 222 to try and fight a rear echelon squad because against a Captain or Riflemen the 222 will take heavy damage.
222 is a total waste of resource if USF go CPT tier, CPT, and stuart right after will eat it for breakfast indeed.
28 Jan 2016, 09:29 AM
#65
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedReplace ost sniper with pak40. Buff 222. Ostheer officially saved.
All that would be left is to buff useless units.
All that would be left is to buff useless units.
28 Jan 2016, 09:30 AM
#66
Posts: 151
Replace ost sniper with pak40.
Ive seen alot of bad ideas in my time.... But this almost certainly takes the Cake for the worst ever
28 Jan 2016, 09:34 AM
#67
Posts: 83
No light vehicle for ost= go pak40 or die.
Go pak40? Spend 320 mp on pure AT to zone out the light vehicle (good player won't lose the 320/400 hp vehicle to your pak)
320 mp spend on pak = enemy inf beating your inf (with light vehicle harrassing the edge's).
You lose most of the map.
That's ostheer between minute 5-6 en 15 in every match.
How is that different from Soviets? Get a ZiS or get raped by OKW Luchs (or to a lesser extent Flak Half-Track)
28 Jan 2016, 09:35 AM
#68
Posts: 230
Permanently Banned
Ive seen alot of bad ideas in my time.... But this almost certainly takes the Cake for the worst ever
Lets see. We got ost t2 the most expensive t2 in the game and thus the hardest faction to get an AT gun with. Consequently, ostheer is screwed by light vehicles the most of any faction. Not just because their light vehicles are garbage. But also because they have the hardest time fielding an AT gun.
Other issue? People often bitch about ostheer sniper. So unless we are going to add received accuracy penalties to british and ostheer snipers. An alternative is swapping the ost sniper, with the pak40.
How is that different from Soviets? Get a ZiS or get raped by OKW Luchs (or to a lesser extent Flak Half-Track)
Difference being soviet t2 comes start of game and is 2nd easiest to field an AT gun. 2nd to okw. Soviet squads are also more resilient on top of oorah AT nades. Makeing it easier to snare luchs rushing into your lines.
Ost is screwed by light vehicles and does not possess the advantages the soviets have.
28 Jan 2016, 09:38 AM
#69
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
Guys, have an idea. From what i read most of you wants or a huge buff or 222 or a new unit like p3 which will be good vs everything. I think with p3 other tech units would lost their role completely.
What if we implement a new unit but with mostly AT capabilities. Puma is in commander so out of question it cannot be add BUT something like:
http://media1.webgarden.name/images/media1:508d45fdc1018.jpg/sdkfz25122cw_1.jpg
or
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/SdKfz251-9.jpg
So basicly we would get AT mobile HT, with long range with posibility to kill all light tanks. Good damage, small hp. Yes it would be easily outmaneuver by stuart BUT with help of grens should be good (so it would need some skill to use)
Ostheer in t2 has good AI weapon (flame HT - yes expensive and come too late but still it's an option), versality unit (222) so we would add mobile AT weapon
What do you think?
What if we implement a new unit but with mostly AT capabilities. Puma is in commander so out of question it cannot be add BUT something like:
http://media1.webgarden.name/images/media1:508d45fdc1018.jpg/sdkfz25122cw_1.jpg
or
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/SdKfz251-9.jpg
So basicly we would get AT mobile HT, with long range with posibility to kill all light tanks. Good damage, small hp. Yes it would be easily outmaneuver by stuart BUT with help of grens should be good (so it would need some skill to use)
Ostheer in t2 has good AI weapon (flame HT - yes expensive and come too late but still it's an option), versality unit (222) so we would add mobile AT weapon
What do you think?
28 Jan 2016, 09:40 AM
#70
Posts: 587
How is that different from Soviets? Get a ZiS or get raped by OKW Luchs (or to a lesser extent Flak Half-Track)
T70 can fight both luchs and aaht (atg unneeded).
Point to me the ostheer t70.
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
28 Jan 2016, 09:40 AM
#71
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
How is that different from Soviets? Get a ZiS or get raped by OKW Luchs (or to a lesser extent Flak Half-Track)
Luchs doesnt have 50 vision and smoke, luchs will lose to T70 and Su-76
28 Jan 2016, 09:43 AM
#72
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
T70 can fight both luchs and aaht (atg unneeded).
yes and no
p2 comes earlier and with shrek cover it may easily win vs t70 but with good use it may block p2
28 Jan 2016, 09:44 AM
#73
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
yes and no
p2 comes earlier and with shrek cover it may easily win vs t70 but with good use it may block p2
Volk will be suppressed by maxims you mean right ? ;D
28 Jan 2016, 09:47 AM
#74
Posts: 632 | Subs: 1
What if we implement a new unit but with mostly AT capabilities. Puma is in commander so out of question it cannot be add BUT something like:
http://media1.webgarden.name/images/media1:508d45fdc1018.jpg/sdkfz25122cw_1.jpg
or
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/SdKfz251-9.jpg
So basicly we would get AT mobile HT, with long range with posibility to kill all light tanks. Good damage, small hp. Yes it would be easily outmaneuver by stuart BUT with help of grens should be good (so it would need some skill to use)
If it's just a Pak on a halftrack, I'd rather get a normal Pak and don't pay fuel.
A Panzer III with the long-barreled 50mm gun would be a better option, I think. Give it decent AT performance with high scatter and low AOE so it won't be great against infantry.
There is some P3 related stuff in the Attribute Editor, so I guess Relic was working on it at some point. But it seems that there's no model.
New to the modding forums? Have a look at our Rules, Tools and Tutorials.
And if you want to get your hands dirty, check the Modders' Job Board.
And if you want to get your hands dirty, check the Modders' Job Board.
28 Jan 2016, 09:47 AM
#75
Posts: 587
yes and no
p2 comes earlier and with shrek cover it may easily win vs t70 but with good use it may block p2
Correct ofc.
The t70 can fight the luchs, and keep it at bay (same as a pak40 before anyone points that out.)
The point is, the t70 doesn't stop there, it can also kill inf, force that off, threaten atg's etc.
Going t70 gives you more freedom to fight the enemy unit's than only scare away the light vehicle.
Pak40 does only that, at the cost of mapcontrol and inf fighting capabilities (which is also the reason that putting pak40 in t1 is utterly pointless in helping ost fight light vehicle's).
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
28 Jan 2016, 09:49 AM
#76
Posts: 151
Lets see. We got ost t2 the most expensive t2 in the game and thus the hardest faction to get an AT gun with. Consequently, ostheer is screwed by light vehicles the most of any faction. Not just because their light vehicles are garbage. But also because they have the hardest time fielding an AT gun.
Other issue? People often bitch about ostheer sniper. So unless we are going to add received accuracy penalties to british and ostheer snipers. An alternative is swapping the ost sniper, with the pak40.
Difference being soviet t2 comes start of game and is 2nd easiest to field an AT gun. 2nd to okw. Soviet squads are also more resilient on top of oorah AT nades. Makeing it easier to snare luchs rushing into your lines.
Ost is screwed by light vehicles and does not possess the advantages the soviets have.
Oh so now you want to swap them?
Osth have plenty of early at options. Best AT mine in the game and best snare ability. Fielding a Pak 40 at the 4:30 minute mark isnt the problem if you ask me.
You would essentially be creating a situation where you stop skilled players from utilising Anti-infantry (Sniper) and swapping it for early vehicle hard counters in the pak 40. So now you have a situation where the Sniper comes to late to be truly effective and Ostheer now also hard counters Allied early vehicles.
Cant you just imagine the cancerous Tier 1 only play into a Tiger?
10 LMG/Grens and 5 Hmgs and 4 Paks is impossible to counter
28 Jan 2016, 09:50 AM
#77
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
If it's just a Pak on a halftrack, I'd rather get a normal Pak and don't pay fuel.
Paks can be easily flanked by infantry, it may get stolen etc. This thing:
1. adds mobility to ostheer army
2. can in some point chase light vehicules
It's not like it should replace pak, it;s just more mobile early-mid counter to fast light vehicules.
28 Jan 2016, 10:09 AM
#78
Posts: 632 | Subs: 1
Paks can be easily flanked by infantry, it may get stolen etc. This thing:
1. adds mobility to ostheer army
2. can in some point chase light vehicules
It's not like it should replace pak, it;s just more mobile early-mid counter to fast light vehicules.
Sure, it's a possibility. It might be good if it's mobile enough.
I think a Sd.Kfz. 251/10 could be nice, that's the standard Ostheer HT with a 37mm Pak 36.
But if we're realistic: It's pretty unlikely that they add a new stock unit. Has that ever happened?
New to the modding forums? Have a look at our Rules, Tools and Tutorials.
And if you want to get your hands dirty, check the Modders' Job Board.
And if you want to get your hands dirty, check the Modders' Job Board.
28 Jan 2016, 10:21 AM
#79
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
Pure AI: 251 flamer upgrade
ALV: 222
AT: Pak40
On the mix: HMG42 Vet ability + Gren faust + pzgren shreck.
Light vehicle play is what let Sov/Brit/USF break Ostheer defense, if you add a light tank to Ostheer, what will be the solution?
ALV: 222
AT: Pak40
On the mix: HMG42 Vet ability + Gren faust + pzgren shreck.
Light vehicle play is what let Sov/Brit/USF break Ostheer defense, if you add a light tank to Ostheer, what will be the solution?
28 Jan 2016, 10:26 AM
#80
Posts: 230
Permanently Banned'
Oh so now you want to swap them?
Osth have plenty of early at options. Best AT mine in the game and best snare ability. Fielding a Pak 40 at the 4:30 minute mark isnt the problem if you ask me.
You would essentially be creating a situation where you stop skilled players from utilising Anti-infantry (Sniper) and swapping it for early vehicle hard counters in the pak 40. So now you have a situation where the Sniper comes to late to be truly effective and Ostheer now also hard counters Allied early vehicles.
Cant you just imagine the cancerous Tier 1 only play into a Tiger?
10 LMG/Grens and 5 Hmgs and 4 Paks is impossible to counter
I see, you are one of the types that think ostheer is perfectly balanced. And the whole light vehicle problem for ostheer is a little bit of L2P, amr?
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