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russian armor

Conscripts VS Volks?

28 Dec 2015, 15:30 PM
#81
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17634 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2015, 15:23 PMBlalord


Hoorah + Molotov still cost 5 less ammo than incendiary grenade, and what MG is to fear against OKW, MG 34 ? ;D

Personally I'd rather have instant throw, long range nade where I can just YOLO rush MG frontally and unless I crawl over red cover, I'll always land it then need for side cost and hope that oorah gets me close enough before getting suppressed and pinned to crawl and live long enough to actually thrown the damn think, which Juri seems to try and drink first before throwing.
28 Dec 2015, 15:36 PM
#82
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1



It does not matter since HMG42 and 34 will just set up and run away while Maxim's crew gonna stand in flames trying to get this damn HMG one by one :snfPeter:


True, i think the "i have to pack upthe HMG again in the floor cause the shooter is dead" should disappear or be on all Mg's
28 Dec 2015, 15:49 PM
#83
avatar of SWAIDAN3

Posts: 47

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2015, 15:23 PMBlalord


Hoorah + Molotov still cost 5 less ammo than incendiary grenade, and what MG is to fear against OKW, MG 34 ? ;D

Play with cons then speak plz , if cons cought by mg they cannot uraa a t all , they will be surpress directly, the olny way to counter mg34/42 is flank smartly, while okw noob players can engage maxim from front.
Also forget to mention the initial damage to volks grande which wayyy better than molotove 0 initial dmg
28 Dec 2015, 20:27 PM
#84
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1058

Conscripts by the late game are just a six man AT nade delivery system. Would love a DP28 upgrade for them. At the moment they don't have the dps to contend in the late game stages.
28 Dec 2015, 21:10 PM
#85
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

While I love the idea of giving scripts a little more use towards the end of the game (ex. Dp28 grade) I rather just settle for a simpler fix, make then a bit cheaper 215 with a minor adjustment in pop. The theme, after all, of the conscript is cheap numerous infantry. There is a design and reason for the Soviet faction,it relies heavily on either A. Specialize infantry or support B. Elite call in infantry. I mean what's the fun of being the Soviets if you can't send wave after wave ah la human wave tactics against the enemy :).
31 Dec 2015, 21:39 PM
#86
avatar of A big guy 4u

Posts: 168

It's the creeping coup of the OKW.

OKW is now THE MOST powerful faction. Ever watch the intro video for OKW? Makes me laugh every time.

''The oberkomando is designed to reflect the german army in late 1944''

Hahahaha mein arsch. Larger squads than 1942-43 Wehr, SAME resources, yeah, totally 1944 german army.

OKW needs the nerf of the gods to slap it into its proper place.
31 Dec 2015, 21:53 PM
#87
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2015, 21:10 PMGenObi
While I love the idea of giving scripts a little more use towards the end of the game (ex. Dp28 grade) I rather just settle for a simpler fix, make then a bit cheaper 215 with a minor adjustment in pop. The theme, after all, of the conscript is cheap numerous infantry. There is a design and reason for the Soviet faction,it relies heavily on either A. Specialize infantry or support B. Elite call in infantry. I mean what's the fun of being the Soviets if you can't send wave after wave ah la human wave tactics against the enemy :).


I've always liked the idea of giving soviets a gobal upgrade that reduces the reinforce cost of conscripts and increases squad size to 8 so they can stay efficient into the late game. No messing around with extra weapon upgrades, 1/3 more health, 1/3 more dps, and a super efficient reinforce cost. They still wouldn't get the DPS increase a LMG or any other weapon upgrade provides but they would have great staying power to help compensate.
31 Dec 2015, 21:57 PM
#88
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2015, 21:53 PMCabreza


I've always liked the idea of giving soviets a gobal upgrade that reduces the reinforce cost of conscripts and increases squad size to 8 so they can stay efficient into the late game. No messing around with extra weapon upgrades, 1/3 more health, 1/3 more dps, and a super efficient reinforce cost. They still wouldn't get the DPS increase a LMG or any other weapon upgrade provides but they would have great staying power to help compensate.


Absolutely brilliant, something simple as, for example, get to tech 4 unlock the "mobilize reserves" upgrade increase script squads by two reduce cost if reinforce by %20 etc..
31 Dec 2015, 21:59 PM
#89
avatar of bingo12345

Posts: 304

How come conscripts are nowhere as useful as volks and the cost difference is only 10 manpower?

Did anybody ever wonder? volks have 5 Vet levels, access to nades, access to Shreks.

What do conscripts do thats as good as volks? the commander PTRS is a weaker version of the call in units, molotov is so slow team can literally wipe before the damm thing finishes throwing.

Only decent thing is the PPSH upgrade but its commander locked.

Whats the current justification in the units large efficiency gap?

After volks got buffed big time, do they still match their cost to stat ratio when compared to conscripts?

Could anybody shed a light for me regarding the facts?

Much appreciated


conscript exists for merge.
31 Dec 2015, 23:49 PM
#90
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Dec 2015, 21:53 PMCabreza


I've always liked the idea of giving soviets a gobal upgrade that reduces the reinforce cost of conscripts and increases squad size to 8 so they can stay efficient into the late game. No messing around with extra weapon upgrades, 1/3 more health, 1/3 more dps, and a super efficient reinforce cost. They still wouldn't get the DPS increase a LMG or any other weapon upgrade provides but they would have great staying power to help compensate.


8 men with the received accuracy they get at vet 3 would have a bit of an absurd survivabiliy, however. I feel on that front, conscripts are fine and need no change. What they really lack is some damage.
1 Jan 2016, 06:11 AM
#91
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

cons need proper vet changes. vet 1 is completely useless, vet 2 and 3 gives much needed boosts but should be spread around all vet levels. remove trip flare and rework vet as below.

vet 1 : -10 rec accuracy +10 accuracy -15 weapon cooldown
vet 2 : -15 rec accuracy +15 accuracy +molotov throw range
vet 3 : -15 rec accuracy +20 accuracy -15 weapon cooldown

this gives a uniform and powerful growth for conscripts and scale through the game with vet, rather than bought weapons. only then, with numbers and vet, conscripts will actually be able to do some damage.
1 Jan 2016, 06:16 AM
#92
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jan 2016, 06:11 AMwongtp
cons need proper vet changes. vet 1 is completely useless, vet 2 and 3 gives much needed boosts but should be spread around all vet levels. remove trip flare and rework vet as below.

vet 1 : -10 rec accuracy +10 accuracy -15 weapon cooldown
vet 2 : -15 rec accuracy +15 accuracy +molotov throw range
vet 3 : -15 rec accuracy +20 accuracy -15 weapon cooldown

this gives a uniform and powerful growth for conscripts and scale through the game with vet, rather than bought weapons. only then, with numbers and vet, conscripts will actually be able to do some damage.


If you did something like that you might as well apply to all units for more even veterancy and stat growth. I mean look at Grenadiers where that rather meh until they hit vet two and get that huge spike at vet 2 with the +40% accuracy that scales incredibly well with the LMG.

1 Jan 2016, 06:58 AM
#93
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

thats the thing, they have the lmg, conscripts dont. giving them lmg will just buff them far too much.
1 Jan 2016, 07:43 AM
#94
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jan 2016, 06:58 AMwongtp
thats the thing, they have the lmg, conscripts dont. giving them lmg will just buff them far too much.


I never said give them an LMG. Just noting how units spike in power once you hit vet 2 and vet 3 where the main bonuses are for most units.

If anything, for Conscript veterancy which replaces trip wire mines, at veterancy 3, lower Conscript reinforce cost to 15 which enforces their role of Conscripts being utility meatshields.
1 Jan 2016, 09:41 AM
#95
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

15 reinforce per model too low. 17 or 18.
1 Jan 2016, 10:13 AM
#96
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 761

dont fuckup something that isnt broken. and the su as a whole isnt broken.

i dont see any reason to buff scripts.
1 Jan 2016, 10:27 AM
#97
avatar of TAKTCOM

Posts: 275 | Subs: 1


8 men...

Not with this pathfinding plz.
jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jan 2016, 10:13 AMZyllen
i dont see any reason to buff scripts.

I agree. This is volks OP no cons UP. Cons always be unit for spam, cap, merge and AT-nade. Not mainline infantry for fair fight with anyone.
2 Jan 2016, 01:03 AM
#98
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647



I never said give them an LMG. Just noting how units spike in power once you hit vet 2 and vet 3 where the main bonuses are for most units.

If anything, for Conscript veterancy which replaces trip wire mines, at veterancy 3, lower Conscript reinforce cost to 15 which enforces their role of Conscripts being utility meatshields.


without the rec accuracy, conscripts arent even good meatshields, thats where i am getting, they need a certain sort of tankability even if they have to be cheap. cheap and weak means its going to be useless

also lmg comes early mid game, when conscripts are still probably vet 0 or 1, giving them some offence and defensive boost will help to balance out the shift of power a little bit.

nee
2 Jan 2016, 01:54 AM
#99
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

Cosncripts an Volksgrenadiers fill different roles. ke, five roles.
Or to be more specific, Conscripts fill three very different roles than the three roles Volks fill.

Conscripts: Merge, Urrah, AT criticals, meant to be (heavily) replaced with Penals/ Shocks/ Guards, three support crew weapons; more or less minor role once vehicles come in.

Volks: Basic AT, replacing with call-ins/ Obers isn't really necessarily, meant to support only two crew weapons; they remain rather viable or necessary in later game phases due to Panzerschreck.

What they have in common: meatshield blobbing, recrewing weapons or vehicles, area denial (molotov/ incendiary grenade), provide numbers and supporting better units.

I do personally think Conscripts' roles can be expanded. Not to mimic Volksgrenadiers' roles (if anything it's Volks mimicking Conscripts), but I'm talking like toggle a lockdown mode that makes them imobile but can heal nearby units (basically a squad-based ambulance/ medic HQ) or even provide forward retreat point. Soviets have neither of these and a commander-based feature that does this can really help with Soviet manpower bleed, especially on larger matches or maps where travel distance affects their efficiency.

If we really need to even the scales between these two units (given faction differences I do not think a 1-1 comparison is justifiable), then reduce cost for Molotov, and/or make the animation faster.
2 Jan 2016, 18:55 PM
#100
avatar of Ultimate26

Posts: 38

So if you dont run guards or shocks soviets dont have a decent frontline fighter? Notice how people dont even talk about penals, if cons are the support infantry then make penals the warrior of the soviets
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