Maybe Relic will continue to produce new similar commanders like now. (shit...)
and REALLY NEW commanders(new unit, new ability) will come in new expansion.
Then, In order to use new coms, it will be purchased...
I think.
CoH2 Day 1 DLC why I think it's "pay to win"
25 Jun 2013, 23:17 PM
#41
Posts: 144
25 Jun 2013, 23:33 PM
#42
Posts: 379
While you have access to extra commanders if you pre-order/have collectors/whatever. You can only select 3 of those commanders to take into battle with you. You don't actually have more variety of tactics than your opponent in game. He has 3 and you have 3. You may have 3 different ones to your opponent but unless your playing mirror that will always happen?
25 Jun 2013, 23:44 PM
#43
Posts: 25
The question is whether the competitive community will be alive long enough for any of this DLC to matter. Game designs like Coh2 or Coh
nline are not really ESports material.
nline are not really ESports material.
26 Jun 2013, 00:34 AM
#44
Posts: 838
"PORN" folder/bookmarks !!!! Hell yah!!! lets open it 
what good you got there ?
what good you got there ?
26 Jun 2013, 01:59 AM
#45
Posts: 25
"PORN" folder/bookmarks !!!! Hell yah!!! lets open it
what good you got there ?
Nothing but Russian Krokodil whores without skills, honor or limbs.
26 Jun 2013, 02:19 AM
#46
Posts: 5
I don't think the new DLC is P2W. I think it's just another open and broad sign of the constantly devolving gaming market, releasing games that are unfinished, buggy, unbalanced, and/or boring, expecting the game to last on fan love till they patch in all of the features. DoW 2 had an observer mode. DoW 2 (post Vanilla) had 1v1's, 2v2's, and 3v3's.
DoW 2 had a semi-decent ladder. Relic knows these things are necessary to not only make a good RTS, but a good competitive game. And I think we can all honestly say that they failed on some of those things. Now in terms of day 1 commanders. They suck. They're just the commanders you already had in vanilla. Which begs the thought of why you even made them? Why not just make a customizable commander system at that point, if you're just going to lazily copy and paste all of your commanders' abilities together, rebrand them with a new name, and ship them out asking people for 2.00 just to get the same old abilities, just in different combinations. CoH 2 is a disappointing game, whoring itself out to the casual crowd who will only play the single player, or co-op missions, and never play the multiplayer. I think the game has plenty of potential. Anyone who's talked to me on streams or anything knows that I think CoH 2 is filled with potential. But relic needs to get off their asses, and actually do what Blizzard did. Go to your top players, and ASK what made the first game good. ASK them what units were just generally OP. ASK THEM what made the first game one of their favourite games of all time. Cause as devs, blizzard didn't know with SC, so they asked their top players. And what happened. Starcraft 2 is a great E-sport, with a huge scene. With huge thousand dollar tournaments. What's CoH 2 gonna have? The TFN tourny this weekend? That's it? I mean I can't see anyone really making tournaments that go as high as TFN's tourny in terms of prize money. CoH 2 needs some things that just need to be changed or just straight removed. Relic needs a real meeting with the major CoH 2 players, and ask them what about the game is OP, what us UP, what do they like, what do they not like, and do everything in their power to make things happy for them. Cause they're the guys who make the meta game. They're the guys who show some of the best strats. We can't sit here and have them try to do it on their own. They're all competent players and devs I'm sure. But competitive players/devs they are not. Who knows. Maybe within a few months, CoH 2 will be the best RTS in the world, outranking SC2 in competitive format. Until then though, I am a very disappointed customer in terms of the business model of CoH 2, and where Relic has gone with it.
DoW 2 had a semi-decent ladder. Relic knows these things are necessary to not only make a good RTS, but a good competitive game. And I think we can all honestly say that they failed on some of those things. Now in terms of day 1 commanders. They suck. They're just the commanders you already had in vanilla. Which begs the thought of why you even made them? Why not just make a customizable commander system at that point, if you're just going to lazily copy and paste all of your commanders' abilities together, rebrand them with a new name, and ship them out asking people for 2.00 just to get the same old abilities, just in different combinations. CoH 2 is a disappointing game, whoring itself out to the casual crowd who will only play the single player, or co-op missions, and never play the multiplayer. I think the game has plenty of potential. Anyone who's talked to me on streams or anything knows that I think CoH 2 is filled with potential. But relic needs to get off their asses, and actually do what Blizzard did. Go to your top players, and ASK what made the first game good. ASK them what units were just generally OP. ASK THEM what made the first game one of their favourite games of all time. Cause as devs, blizzard didn't know with SC, so they asked their top players. And what happened. Starcraft 2 is a great E-sport, with a huge scene. With huge thousand dollar tournaments. What's CoH 2 gonna have? The TFN tourny this weekend? That's it? I mean I can't see anyone really making tournaments that go as high as TFN's tourny in terms of prize money. CoH 2 needs some things that just need to be changed or just straight removed. Relic needs a real meeting with the major CoH 2 players, and ask them what about the game is OP, what us UP, what do they like, what do they not like, and do everything in their power to make things happy for them. Cause they're the guys who make the meta game. They're the guys who show some of the best strats. We can't sit here and have them try to do it on their own. They're all competent players and devs I'm sure. But competitive players/devs they are not. Who knows. Maybe within a few months, CoH 2 will be the best RTS in the world, outranking SC2 in competitive format. Until then though, I am a very disappointed customer in terms of the business model of CoH 2, and where Relic has gone with it.
26 Jun 2013, 03:31 AM
#47
Posts: 642
Except... that's not the secret to SC2's success at all.
Most of SC2's success was hype, not careful game balance. Anyone Beta testing SC2 can atest to this, I remember at some point people were whining that SC2 was designed around ramps and zerglings.
Blizzard DID ask their top players, but you have to realize Blizzard has the money and power to bring that and keep doing it for many years until they feel satisfied. 99% of devs out there can't.
Let me give you an example of what Blizzard did, by a non Blizzard company: EA with Command and Conquers and BFME2. They contacted some of their top players to get feedback and stuff. It still took MANY patches to get those games rolling, and even then, their competitive communities are hardly e-sports at all (Generals being an exception).
The truth about Esports is that it is such a new phenomenon worldwide, that nobody honestly knows how the hell to do them. They have some succesful experiences, but its still a learning process. Stuff like LoL are split between lucky accidents/coincidences and well thought out schemes.
Most of SC2's success was hype, not careful game balance. Anyone Beta testing SC2 can atest to this, I remember at some point people were whining that SC2 was designed around ramps and zerglings.
Blizzard DID ask their top players, but you have to realize Blizzard has the money and power to bring that and keep doing it for many years until they feel satisfied. 99% of devs out there can't.
Let me give you an example of what Blizzard did, by a non Blizzard company: EA with Command and Conquers and BFME2. They contacted some of their top players to get feedback and stuff. It still took MANY patches to get those games rolling, and even then, their competitive communities are hardly e-sports at all (Generals being an exception).
The truth about Esports is that it is such a new phenomenon worldwide, that nobody honestly knows how the hell to do them. They have some succesful experiences, but its still a learning process. Stuff like LoL are split between lucky accidents/coincidences and well thought out schemes.
26 Jun 2013, 04:27 AM
#48
Posts: 144
Big tournaments of SC2??
This is not related with their top players.
This is not related with their top players.
26 Jun 2013, 06:05 AM
#49
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedIf this game had no ambitions to be competitive or possibly even an e-sport, nobody would give a shit about the Commander DLCs.
However, because at least the community WANTS it to be, atleast to the level vCoH was, this creates an ethical dilemna between service provider and client.
The ethics of competitive play dictate all participants start from the same nominal position, barring such thingsmas handicap, such as in golf, which stratify players particularly for tournaments.
I recommend they create a Commander DLC package and name it "Competion Package", so it atleast has the nominal ethical excuse that if you want to play competitive CoH2, you should buy this package to gain full access to the full spread and equal ground of said competitive play.
However, because at least the community WANTS it to be, atleast to the level vCoH was, this creates an ethical dilemna between service provider and client.
The ethics of competitive play dictate all participants start from the same nominal position, barring such thingsmas handicap, such as in golf, which stratify players particularly for tournaments.
I recommend they create a Commander DLC package and name it "Competion Package", so it atleast has the nominal ethical excuse that if you want to play competitive CoH2, you should buy this package to gain full access to the full spread and equal ground of said competitive play.
26 Jun 2013, 08:08 AM
#50
4 
Posts: 951
^ Nullist wins. Thread over. Srsly.
I think this is a perfectly valid, not to mention elegant, solution.
I think this is a perfectly valid, not to mention elegant, solution.
27 Jun 2013, 12:21 PM
#51
Posts: 371
So you expect to pay forty-odd quid for six years (plus) of stable, consistent online support with *no* monthly subscriptions or DLC?
See what I say about entitlement issues?
Relic isn't a charity. If, as you say on your video, CoH is your hobby then support it. That means investing some money in it occasionally.
1st you are not paying for 6 years you are paying for 2 , every respectable game has an expansion in 2 years time to keep it going and make money to keep the support rolling and generate further profits .
2nd 40 pounds is a pretty hefty investment when video games are the hobby , mmorpg excluded pc gaming used to be cheap
3rd mixing and matching abilities that are already in other commanders in order to make new commanders and thus create strategic imbalance between players is called extracting fat from mosquitoes
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
27 Jun 2013, 12:48 PM
#52
Posts: 336
I don't think the new DLC is P2W. I think it's just another open and broad sign of the constantly devolving gaming market, releasing games that are unfinished, buggy, unbalanced, and/or boring, expecting the game to last on fan love till they patch in all of the features. DoW 2 had an observer mode. DoW 2 (post Vanilla) had 1v1's, 2v2's, and 3v3's.
DoW 2 had a semi-decent ladder. Relic knows these things are necessary to not only make a good RTS, but a good competitive game. And I think we can all honestly say that they failed on some of those things. Now in terms of day 1 commanders. They suck. They're just the commanders you already had in vanilla. Which begs the thought of why you even made them? Why not just make a customizable commander system at that point, if you're just going to lazily copy and paste all of your commanders' abilities together, rebrand them with a new name, and ship them out asking people for 2.00 just to get the same old abilities, just in different combinations. CoH 2 is a disappointing game, whoring itself out to the casual crowd who will only play the single player, or co-op missions, and never play the multiplayer. I think the game has plenty of potential. Anyone who's talked to me on streams or anything knows that I think CoH 2 is filled with potential. But relic needs to get off their asses, and actually do what Blizzard did. Go to your top players, and ASK what made the first game good. ASK them what units were just generally OP. ASK THEM what made the first game one of their favourite games of all time. Cause as devs, blizzard didn't know with SC, so they asked their top players. And what happened. Starcraft 2 is a great E-sport, with a huge scene. With huge thousand dollar tournaments. What's CoH 2 gonna have? The TFN tourny this weekend? That's it? I mean I can't see anyone really making tournaments that go as high as TFN's tourny in terms of prize money. CoH 2 needs some things that just need to be changed or just straight removed. Relic needs a real meeting with the major CoH 2 players, and ask them what about the game is OP, what us UP, what do they like, what do they not like, and do everything in their power to make things happy for them. Cause they're the guys who make the meta game. They're the guys who show some of the best strats. We can't sit here and have them try to do it on their own. They're all competent players and devs I'm sure. But competitive players/devs they are not. Who knows. Maybe within a few months, CoH 2 will be the best RTS in the world, outranking SC2 in competitive format. Until then though, I am a very disappointed customer in terms of the business model of CoH 2, and where Relic has gone with it.
Well said, Jahwon. Although...Relic did meet with some of the major CoH2 players. Next to that, your comparison with SC2; chapeau chapeau, very relevant and original. It is alright that you are dissapointed, I mean, at least you gave the game a fair chance right?
1st you are not paying for 6 years you are paying for 2 , every respectable game has an expansion in 2 years time to keep it going and make money to keep the support rolling and generate further profits .
You are not paying for any time period as these expenditures are considered "sunk costs", which are not related to the period of playing the game.
On another note, place yourself in Relic's position. Why wouldn't they continue to sell more DLC content to people who have payed the current price of the game. They are likely to spend a few more dollars/euros/wons.
There Used To Be Great Nullist Quotes Here.
27 Jun 2013, 13:58 PM
#53
Posts: 7
Vehicle skins at 1.99€ each...
http://store.steampowered.com/sale/Company_of_Heroes_2_Vehicle_Camouflages
http://store.steampowered.com/sale/Company_of_Heroes_2_Vehicle_Camouflages
29 Jun 2013, 16:23 PM
#54
Posts: 68
Permanently BannedThis game its shit period!
29 Jun 2013, 19:25 PM
#56
Posts: 419
In a way the dlc commanders do give an advantage to a degree because some players may have a strategy that uses a,b,d more fluently than a,b,c etc. But to say it's an massive advantage just because the same abilities are mixed and matched I am not sure about that.
29 Jun 2013, 21:01 PM
#57
5 Posts: 25
So you expect to pay forty-odd quid for six years (plus) of stable, consistent online support with *no* monthly subscriptions or DLC?
See what I say about entitlement issues?
Relic isn't a charity. If, as you say on your video, CoH is your hobby then support it. That means investing some money in it occasionally.
+1. well said.
30 Jun 2013, 08:32 AM
#58
Posts: 115
By the logic in this thread vCOH was pay to win too, because you had to pay to get access to PE and Brits. Hey, it doesn't matter if they're well balanced, because more strategic choices is an advantage, right?
COH 2 isn't P2W and neither was vCOH. No one is being forced to buy anything, and nothing on offer has any particular advantage on the battlefield. Get over it.
COH 2 isn't P2W and neither was vCOH. No one is being forced to buy anything, and nothing on offer has any particular advantage on the battlefield. Get over it.
30 Jun 2013, 09:48 AM
#59
1 Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
There's a massive difference between day 1, and two years down the line. The worst thing about all of this is it sends the worse possible message to competitive RTS fans. Of which there are literally millions.
Master League - CoH's tournament player ranking system.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
30 Jun 2013, 14:45 PM
#60
Posts: 419
there are literally hundreds of millions of non competitive fans.....
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