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russian armor

replace the volks schreck with mp44+faust.

29 Oct 2015, 08:33 AM
#61
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Volks should choose between MP44 + incendiary nade upgrade that requires Mech HQ tech, or Shrek + faust upgrade that requires BHQ.

Cons also could use some sort love lategame, as well as T34. (Off topic.)


And then you'd have twice as many volks, half with shrecks, half with ai upgrades.
This is exactly why volks won't be getting any other upgrade as long as they can have shrecks.

Also, 5 other dedicated AI squads are good counter argument why they should never get it.
As cancerous as shrecks are on them, they aren't going to change that.
29 Oct 2015, 11:29 AM
#62
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 08:33 AMKatitof


And then you'd have twice as many volks, half with shrecks, half with ai upgrades.
This is exactly why volks won't be getting any other upgrade as long as they can have shrecks.

Also, 5 other dedicated AI squads are good counter argument why they should never get it.
As cancerous as shrecks are on them, they aren't going to change that.


I know what your saying. I think upgraded Volks would at least require additional upkeep upgraded or something.

But the only dedicated AI squads the OKW has are JLI and Obers. Sturms, Fals, Pfusiliers, are all utility infantry.

29 Oct 2015, 11:31 AM
#63
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 08:33 AMKatitof


And then you'd have twice as many volks, half with shrecks, half with ai upgrades.
This is exactly why volks won't be getting any other upgrade as long as they can have shrecks.

Also, 5 other dedicated AI squads are good counter argument why they should never get it.
As cancerous as shrecks are on them, they aren't going to change that.


" Look as the current zook/bar rifleblob " right katitof because only allies can have good stuff right.
29 Oct 2015, 12:37 PM
#64
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

*looks at zook stats and shreck stats, compares armor values of axis and allied tanks*

Apparently, Zyllen, its still axis that have it.
29 Oct 2015, 13:58 PM
#66
avatar of varunax

Posts: 210

That's why I kind of preferred vCoH's upgrade system. It actually made more sense. Volks got light AT (faust) for early vehicles and MP40 for light AI counter. Worked perfectly then CoH2 came along and for some reason they wanted to change it.

ATM. I don't think the shrecks are an issue because they're very much needed, but you really don't need a shreck to deal with an armored car THAT early in the game.

How to fix this issue by not fking the entire faction over? I dunno, probably the only way to do it is by a commander which seems to be the case nowadays.

Let's leave everything broken and just patch the game up with commanders you can buy.
29 Oct 2015, 14:00 PM
#67
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 08:33 AMKatitof

Also, 5 other dedicated AI squads are good counter argument why they should never get it.
As cancerous as shrecks are on them, they aren't going to change that.


obers are really a shadow of their former self at this point, but yet I don't really want to see them returning to their former strength.

Sturm might be cheaper, but they are still no match for a geared and vetted rifleman or tommies.

jaeger, panzerfusilier, and falls are doctrine units. Panzerfusilier is more of a glorified volks. That At nade on the panzerfusilier also managed to be even worst than the one on rifleman.
29 Oct 2015, 14:18 PM
#68
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770



obers are really a shadow of their former self at this point, but yet I don't really want to see them returning to their former strength.

Sturm might be cheaper, but they are still no match for a geared and vetted rifleman or tommies.

jaeger, panzerfusilier, and falls are doctrine units. Panzerfusilier is more of a glorified volks than anything else. That At nade on the panzerfusilier also managed to be even worst than the one on rifleman.


All these units are fine actually the problem lies solely in the vet. Yes the OKW has the best vet IF they reach vet 5. And it seems to me that the okw has ridiculous vet requirement. Combine this problem with another problem: the allies gain vet faster. Im Not 100 % sure but the brits and usf seem to have much lower vet requirements on top of that the vet of the allies between 1 and 3 is more potent.

These factors all combined makes it impossible for the okw infantry to keep with the allies.

To be honest they really need to cut the okw veterancy requirement by a third perhaps even 40%
29 Oct 2015, 17:07 PM
#69
avatar of colgate

Posts: 44

Remove panzershreck from volks and give them nothing (like conscripts)
29 Oct 2015, 17:20 PM
#70
avatar of SpaceHamster
Patrion 14

Posts: 474

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 17:07 PMcolgate
Remove panzershreck from volks and give them nothing (like conscripts)


Do that, and give them panzerfausts and mp40 upgrade(with buffs to medium and long range accuracy like the thompsons/ppshs had) with mechanized halftrack vehicles being 10-20% cheaper and I might actually have fun playing OKW aggressively early game like relic wanted me too :snfPeter:
29 Oct 2015, 17:22 PM
#71
avatar of Sikko
Patrion 14

Posts: 113

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 17:07 PMcolgate
Remove panzershreck from volks and give them nothing (like conscripts)


I agree. Give 'em nothing-merge, nothing-snare, nothing-sixthmember and nothing-doctrinal-upgrades.
29 Oct 2015, 19:57 PM
#72
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160



obers are really a shadow of their former self at this point, but yet I don't really want to see them returning to their former strength.

Sturm might be cheaper, but they are still no match for a geared and vetted rifleman or tommies.

jaeger, panzerfusilier, and falls are doctrine units. Panzerfusilier is more of a glorified volks. That At nade on the panzerfusilier also managed to be even worst than the one on rifleman.


But that's kind of the point. If your fully upgraded tommy and rifleman couldn't beat a sturm, that would be stupid. However, vanilla sturms can kill rifleman if you close the distance. That's why you get obers later on who can match up with the upgrades later on.
29 Oct 2015, 20:48 PM
#73
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 11:31 AMZyllen


" Look as the current zook/bar rifleblob " right katitof because only allies can have good stuff right.

Zook blob? Are you kidding me.

I almost never see a zook blob, and when I do they are almost always completely ineffective.

Even a blob of 4 rifles with double zooks has trouble taking a P4 down halfway, and it's never worth the amount of AI they give up.
29 Oct 2015, 21:48 PM
#74
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403


Zook blob? Are you kidding me.

I almost never see a zook blob, and when I do they are almost always completely ineffective.

Even a blob of 4 rifles with double zooks has trouble taking a P4 down halfway, and it's never worth the amount of AI they give up.


No but you see, the point is that you CAN make zook blobs, shrecks can be better and available on cheap infantry,but dual zook riflemen so broken they just amove into your base and kill elefants in 1 hit :sibToxic:
Conclusion:

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 13:06 PMZyllen

Fuckof with your strawmen failfish. Like the fanboy you are you blatantly ignore that the usf and brits can dump AI and AT weapons on their mainline infantry but you have the gall to complain about volks? not to mention now that rifle squad with their ridiculous vet 3 bonuses basically are even worse when volks had the -29% at vet 5?
29 Oct 2015, 22:01 PM
#75
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561



No but you see, the point is that you CAN make zook blobs, shrecks can be better and available on cheap infantry,but dual zook riflemen so broken they just amove into your base and kill elefants in 1 hit :sibToxic:


Yes, you "CAN" make zook blobs. You also "CAN" build an army of nothing but snipers. That doesn't mean you can actually discuss it like it is at all a viable tactic.
29 Oct 2015, 22:13 PM
#76
avatar of Morgathos

Posts: 12

Personally, I would like Volks to be a bit more like the Volks in COH1. They were weak, yes, but also pretty damn good at defending. Since an OKW player has to rely on Volks and the such early game, why not allow them to build not just sandbags, but also barb wire? And perhaps could even help build certain defenses, such tank traps? Oh, and they sound pretty damn cool. Volks sound OP, and are therefore OP.
29 Oct 2015, 22:42 PM
#77
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

Yes, you "CAN" make zook blobs. You also "CAN" build an army of nothing but snipers. That doesn't mean you can actually discuss it like it is at all a viable tactic.


If zooka blob is not a valid tactic the neither is the shrek blob people are blabbering about. Sure shrek has more punching power but the zooka has a higher rof and is significantly cheaper.

The point im making however is before , katitof used a shitty strawmen argument , is that giving the volks an AI option doesnt make them suddenly OP.
29 Oct 2015, 23:02 PM
#78
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 19:57 PMZeaviS
But that's kind of the point. If your fully upgraded tommy and rifleman couldn't beat a sturm, that would be stupid. However, vanilla sturms can kill rifleman if you close the distance. That's why you get obers later on who can match up with the upgrades later on.


Vet 3 Double LMG Tommies can take on LMG Oberdoldaten until Vet 4, so Obersoldaten aren't really the answer here, especially due to cost. You cannot field an Ober squad for every Tommy.
29 Oct 2015, 23:13 PM
#79
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 19:57 PMZeaviS


But that's kind of the point. If your fully upgraded tommy and rifleman couldn't beat a sturm, that would be stupid. However, vanilla sturms can kill rifleman if you close the distance. That's why you get obers later on who can match up with the upgrades later on.


the current ober should really be cheaper. 360 mp and 9 pop.

the veterancy bonus on the rifleman and tommies get ridiculous. Conscript get better veterancy due to their lack of common upgrade, but the rifleman and tommies have easy access to lmg/bar.
30 Oct 2015, 01:16 AM
#80
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Oct 2015, 22:42 PMZyllen


If zooka blob is not a valid tactic the neither is the shrek blob people are blabbering about. Sure shrek has more punching power but the zooka has a higher rof and is significantly cheaper.

The point im making however is before , katitof used a shitty strawmen argument , is that giving the volks an AI option doesnt make them suddenly OP.


How about giving conscript panzerstreck upgrade? Giving cons AT option doesnt make them suddenly OP right?

Sometime, give a thought what would happen if the opposite faction get the same treatment, do you accept it or not? That would save a lot of terrible arguments.

Relic gives volk AT role. Try to follow that path instead.
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