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Give Volks MP44 through Veterancy

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BeefSurge
29 Sep 2015, 21:13 PM
#21
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Posts: 1891

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 21:07 PMkamk

I've got an idea:
We give OKW some sort of Heavy Pios. Let's call them Sturmpioniere, and give them a similar weapons profile like PGrens, for short- & mid ranged engagements, with lot's of DPS!

How does that sound?



Really not a huge fan of your idea, mainly because of the forced change in combat distance - a doctrinal upgrade might be a fun option to have though.


Early to mid game Sturms suffice, however lategame Sturms are on sweeping/repair duty pretty much full time. I agree on upgrade.

Off topic, pzgrens are okay because they're good at defending Osts support weapons and for flanks, two things the OKW lack.

@Katitof
Only dedicated anti-infantry squad of OKW are Obers. Pfusilier, falls, are utility units: JLI are *supposed* to be light force multiplier/recon but are currently OP, however their role is kept because Volks suck.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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Katitof
29 Sep 2015, 21:15 PM
#22
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 21:09 PMSirRaven of Coventry


I am not trying to turn volks into anything, I don't know why you accuse me of that Katikof. I am actually genuinely interested in what would make you happy within this game.

A balanced environment for all 5 armies with most if not all commanders being valid, not necessarily equally strong, but valid and diminished reliance on specific doctrines or single unit to be even able to stay in game-brits are the best example here of what I don't want, there is alooong way before UKF will not be stomped either by sniper or osttruppen.

You never seem to agree with anything.

Because I usually respond in threads which I don't agree with something :foreveralone:
And you're wrong! Centaur thread is one example.

I just don't like messing with stuff that isn't broken.
I don't want to see volks getting more AI, because that makes completely no sense on the contrast of any other infantry unit they have, volks role is clear-AT and meatshields for other, dedicated AI squads which OKW have plenty to choose from.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Mr. Someguy
29 Sep 2015, 21:22 PM
#23
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Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 21:02 PMThe_rEd_bEar
Funny people said the same thing about cons, but everyone says they are fine and should no get non doc weapons, now here we are with volks who have more utility than cons and people want to give them non doc upgrades

Selective hearing, you hear what you want to hear to fuel your own bias. Calls for a Cons upgrade have been going on for a long time and have been more common and more popular than any upgrade for Volks.


jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 20:18 PMBeefSurge
Dude, connect the dots.

MP44 stats would be roughly analogous to Cons PPSH with maybe less ranged DPS, and it would be acquired through Veterancy.

You'd want an MP 40 then, because what you describe does not fit the MP 44's damage profile.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Coventrierer
29 Sep 2015, 21:37 PM
#24
avatar of Coventrierer

Posts: 80

i agree with Mp40 upgrade wether with vet or just commander cuz i dont want to get the long way for Obers or doctrinal Infa like Füsil. or Falls. Non-Doc is the Key word and a core units which "only" works as meat-shield (ok the AT-Role lasts but tanks are doin that job a little bit better i guess..)for Obers which are non-doc or the doc units like falls/JLI/Füsil. is crap.

For now i can live with the current state cuz im playing with okw for obers and/or Füsil to get REAL AI capabilities. Otherwise:

1 Non-Dock unit - Obers 3 Doc-Units:Falls/Füsil/JLI

Thats not what this faction needs
Ze bad germanz are there. Alle Macht den Panzerwerfer 42's.
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5trategos
29 Sep 2015, 21:38 PM
#25
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Posts: 449

They already have the incendiary nade for CQC an it's arguably (OP) the most cost-effective anti-personnel nade in the game.

Besides, making a generalist unit even better than it already is would only serve to alienate the specialist units.

It's like you've accepted that you shouldn't ever build Obers or Falls and decided the only way to bring OKW up to par with the other factions is to buff the already overused unit.
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Coventrierer
29 Sep 2015, 21:42 PM
#26
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Posts: 80

They already have the incendiary nade for CQC an it's arguably (OP) the most cost-effective anti-personnel nade in the game.

Besides, making a generalist unit even better than it already is would only serve to alienate the specialist units.

It's like you've accepted that you shouldn't ever build Obers or Falls and decided the only way to bring OKW up to par with the other factions is to buff the already overused unit.


Then balance out the granades again. I have to admit that the current nades are OP.

To get back to volks as theay are: If you give them an upgrade there is a word thats called "balance" and yes you can do that with volks. give them something and remove something but i really wish to have Mp40 that would make the OKw caore units even more "special" as the whole faction is
Ze bad germanz are there. Alle Macht den Panzerwerfer 42's.
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ZeaviS
29 Sep 2015, 22:03 PM
#27
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 19:57 PMBeefSurge
In lategame Volks serve no purpose except capping, crewing, and AT. Lategame OKW has no assault units, making them A-move focused, poor in close quarters, and exaberating their MP float problem. Having Volks transition from early game line that is supported by Sturms to lategame assault that supports Obers makes perfect sense. (Lategame Sturms are repairing/engineering, thus not ready for combat duty.)

I figure at vet 3 2 MP44 with stats similar to Con PPSH, maybe a tad better. At vet 5 they would get two more, meaning with Shrek upgrade entire squad would have assault rifles.


How would this make volks less A-move? You basically want volks to turn into cheaper pgrens when they vet. If you want pgrens, you should play Wehr.



Idea could use tweaking but is good in principle, OKW has NO dedicated CQC assault units and currently Volks are overshadowed by call-in troops.


OKW has CQC units, they are called sturmpios, obers with stg44, falls are good at all ranges, including up close.
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kamk
29 Sep 2015, 22:04 PM
#28
avatar of kamk
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Posts: 764

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 21:13 PMBeefSurge


Early to mid game Sturms suffice, however lategame Sturms are on sweeping/repair duty pretty much full time. I agree on upgrade.

Off topic, pzgrens are okay because they're good at defending Osts support weapons and for flanks, two things the OKW lack.
...

So, get a 2nd squad, or T2. The options are there.

OKW also has support weapons. Don't underestimate Raketen, or the newly superbuffed ISG. Only thing they basically lack is a decent MG, but that's the same for USF (basically), not?

Anyways, last thing i want to see again is bloody Volks spam, or an upgrade that starts out great, but then gets nerfed to crap shortly after. IMO Volks are fine as they are right now.
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Alexzandvar
29 Sep 2015, 22:07 PM
#29
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Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Volks just need better vet period. Vet 5 just gives them no appreciable advantage at the moment.
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Zyllen
29 Sep 2015, 22:08 PM
#30
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 21:38 PM5trategos
They already have the incendiary nade for CQC an it's arguably (OP) the most cost-effective anti-personnel nade in the game.

Besides, making a generalist unit even better than it already is would only serve to alienate the specialist units.

It's like you've accepted that you shouldn't ever build Obers or Falls and decided the only way to bring OKW up to par with the other factions is to buff the already overused unit.


OMG the amount of fail in this post is staggering. How many obers and falls can you afford? at best 2. good luck fighting a whole army with 2 AI units while the rest of the factions can actually upgrade their base infantry.

You stupidly expect that 1-2 units can take the burden of the ai duties of the okw army.

Assault package 3 mp44 with pg's stats and the ability to fire the faust for 90 ammo but you no longer equip the shrek.
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ZeaviS
29 Sep 2015, 22:11 PM
#31
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:07 PMAlexzandvar
Volks just need better vet period. Vet 5 just gives them no appreciable advantage at the moment.


how is .7 cooldown and reload at vet5 not good?
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Vuther
29 Sep 2015, 22:13 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:08 PMZyllen


OMG the amount of fail in this post is staggering. How many obers and falls can you afford? at best 2. good luck fighting a whole army with 2 AI units while the rest of the factions can actually upgrade their base infantry.

It works for the Soviets...but of course, the Soviets are not lacking in AI in overall faction potential despite this.
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Zyllen
29 Sep 2015, 22:24 PM
#33
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Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:13 PMVuther

It works for the Soviets...but of course, the Soviets are not lacking in AI in overall faction potential despite this.


What about penals? upgraded with flamethrowers they are pretty good. but yeah they have plenty of potent support weapons working form them like the maxim. and scripts are still stronger and have more utility then volks.
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Zyllen
29 Sep 2015, 22:25 PM
#34
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:11 PMZeaviS


how is .7 cooldown and reload at vet5 not good?


Because its not. it sounds impressive but its not much of an dps upgrade.
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Alexzandvar
29 Sep 2015, 22:33 PM
#35
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Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:11 PMZeaviS


how is .7 cooldown and reload at vet5 not good?


Cooldown and reload are much smaller contributors to DPS than accuracy and damage. The fact of the matter is the extremely large buff to Riflemen and Conscript vet made the one feature Volks had (superior scaling) obsolete. This isn't even touching the the fact that British Vet is equally potent for only 3 levels.

A smaller pie sliced 5 times doesn't actually give you more Pie than a large pie sliced 3 times.

At vet 5, they still cannot beat Vet 3 Riflemen or Cons 1 on 1. And by that I mean it swings so much in the Conscript and Riflemens favor they can start at max range and run all the way up to the Volk's in CQC and win. It's even more of a joke on Urban maps were you fight almost entirely at mid or CQC.

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RedT3rror
29 Sep 2015, 22:34 PM
#36
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Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:08 PMZyllen


You stupidly expect that 1-2 units can take the burden of the ai duties of the okw army.



It's called micro. You place the Volksgrenadiers infront of your elite infantry and use them as meatshields. There´s no other faction which can rely so much on such an effective long range infantry.












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Firesparks
29 Sep 2015, 22:35 PM
#37
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Posts: 1930

replace schreck with mp44 + faust. I'm suck of schreck blob.


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Alexzandvar
29 Sep 2015, 22:38 PM
#38
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Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Also the fact that OKW has to spam call in infantry instead of making use of their stock infantry sucks and wasn't that the entire point of buffing Riflemen and Cons? So Soviets and USF didn't NEED elite infantry 100% of the time?

It blows that you can't ever going anything but Scavenge or Breakthrough and maybe on occasion Luftwaffe in 1v1 or maybe Fort. Spec Op's works in 2's but thats more because infiltration nades than anything (as well as IR StG's).

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Zyllen
29 Sep 2015, 22:41 PM
#39
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Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:34 PMRedT3rror


It's called micro. You place the Volksgrenadiers infront of your elite infantry and use them as meatshields. There´s no other faction which can rely so much on such an effective long range infantry.



You call me out on micro but you dont have the micro to click on the obers when they appear? are you stupid or trolling?

Meatshields mean nothing if you can direct where your stuff is firing on.
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RedT3rror
29 Sep 2015, 22:43 PM
#40
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Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:38 PMAlexzandvar

It blows that you can't ever going anything but Scavenge or Breakthrough and maybe on occasion Luftwaffe in 1v1 or maybe Fort. Spec Op's works in 2's but thats more because infiltration nades than anything (as well as IR StG's).


BREAKING NEWS! Existence of weak commanders among WFA factions confirmed!!!

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Sep 2015, 22:41 PMZyllen



You call me out on micro but you dont have the micro to click on the obers when they appear? are you stupid or trolling?

Meatshields mean nothing if you can direct where your stuff is firing on.


If the enemy focuses Obers with his infantry (which is not going to do much damage unless you have some vet3 Paras combined with Pathfinders) you can use the Volksgrenadiers to move in and do some actual damage with them (by the time you have elite infantry, your volks should have a good amount of vet, atleast vet2). Don't forget, Volks still have access on one of the secret nazi weapons: incendiary grenades
Playercard of RedT3rror

3v3: Pstreak: + 4with SoE-Blackstorm-, & SoE-Sturmpanther
3v3: Pstreak: + 9with SoE-Blackstorm-, & SoE-Sturmpanther
4v4: Pstreak: + 1with SoE-Blackstorm-, -Overlord-, & SoE-Sturmpanther
4v4: Pstreak: + 1with SoE-Blackstorm-, -Overlord-, & SoE-Sturmpanther




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