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Penals

22 Sep 2015, 14:27 PM
#21
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2015, 13:20 PMBurts
So, we now agree that pretty much ALL stock army units are worth their cost and are worth buying in atleast some circumstances...


Except, Penals :sibHyena:



Seriously thought, with the current vet 3 buff for cons theres just zero reason to use penals.


I propose some received accuracy when they vet up OR just buff their stock rifles.


Or perhaps buff their flamres? I wouldn't mind penal flamethrowers doing more damage than all other flamers to make them more uesful.


I tried using them a few times, and theres basically zero reason to use them since combat engineers get flamers and conscripts get good scaling now anyways..


Perhaps give them a bit more KAPOW on close and close-mid range, would make them way more useful
22 Sep 2015, 14:31 PM
#22
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Id like penals to act more like penals.
22 Sep 2015, 14:32 PM
#23
avatar of Airborne

Posts: 281

Make their wapon profile look like the M1Garand. And replace flametrower with an other mid range anti infantry upgrade.
22 Sep 2015, 14:36 PM
#24
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17831 | Subs: 8



Perhaps give them a bit more KAPOW on close and close-mid range, would make them way more useful

More KAPOW on close and close-mid range is exactly the reason why they are useless.

You know who else have more KAPOW on close and close-mid range?

Conscripts.
PPSH conscripts.
Partisans.
Shocks.
Assault guards.

There is no reason nor the place for penals being effective at close and mid range, because so many other units that are either more effective, have more utility or simply more firepower for the cost at that range.

Penals have no role, their utility is copied by CEs with flamers, satchels are unuseable as grenades and its better to make a demo trap then satchel garrison anyway.

Penals only logical route of improvment is increase in long range DPS so soviets would have a squad that would actually be effective from fighting in cover over longer distances.
22 Sep 2015, 14:51 PM
#25
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1888 | Subs: 1

Would be neat if they replaced their Vet 2 Oorah with something a bit more beefy similar to Brit Airlanding Officer's "Officer Charge". Call it Suicide Charge or Reckless Abandon and give them better Attack/Speed/Whatever while taking more damage. Would make them more useful and give the unit more historical flavor. Either that or give them a "Human Minesweeper" buff where you can choose to sacrifice part of the squad to instantly detonate an entire S-Mine field :P

Either way they feel overpriced compared to Cons and need their cost/performance brought in line.
22 Sep 2015, 14:52 PM
#26
avatar of Bad_Vader

Posts: 88 | Subs: 1

The reason why Penals suck isn't because their vet is shit. They have some of the best veterancy bonus's in the game (they get 30% more accuracy twice which is huge as accuracy is the biggest determiner in DPS next to just damage). The issue is their rifles are horrible. Not necessarily in reload, but they are highly inaccurate and have a long cool down and aim time (especially at far to mid).

Making their rifles more similar to G43's (like Gren and Fuss ones) would work, since yknow the whole semi-automatic thing. I would also remove the flamethrower package (since their gimmick used to be they never exploded and flamer explosions are so rare now it basically doesn't matter) and replace it with commissar upgrade (unlocked after T3 or T4 is built) that makes them fight harder as they die and cheaper to reinforce.

I can't believe how great this suggestion is :D
Not only is it flavorful but it also makes a whole lot of sense.
I'd still keep the flamethrower upgrade though, as much as I love opening with 2 engies retaining the flamethrower upgrade gives them some utility early game and makes it so that you have some incentive to close into the enemy late game when combined with the commissar.
22 Sep 2015, 14:56 PM
#27
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Alex making sense!?!?! One thing, it wasn't that they didn't ever explode, it was that they had a 50% less chance of it happening than other flame units, cause special sauce.

Indeed, the rifles need more accuracy.

Fighting harder for loss of men would definitely fit with the unit name. Not sure the commissar upgrade is necessary, might be interesting.
22 Sep 2015, 15:13 PM
#28
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

+1 to Alex's idea. And since we are not gonna see commisars, maybe give them DP-28 upgrade with T3.

They are too damn expensive, they should at least function as Rifles. I agree that flamer is also shit and overlaps CEs. Better SVTs (G43 profile), maybe LMG upgrade and maybe increase their Reinforce price since they have fantastic Vet.
22 Sep 2015, 15:38 PM
#29
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

At the very least, make Oorah! vet 1 instead of vet 2.
Id like penals to act more like penals.

It'd be amusing, but making suicide squads are a difficult line to walk on, and new Script vet makes them good enough meatshields already.

For example, FUCKING RIPPERS from DoW2.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2015, 15:13 PMRMMLz
+1 to Alex's idea. And since we are not gonna see commisars, maybe give them DP-28 upgrade with T3.

They are too damn expensive, they should at least function as Rifles. I agree that flamer is also shit and overlaps CEs. Better SVTs (G43 profile), maybe LMG upgrade and maybe increase their Reinforce price since they have fantastic Vet.

Going back to penals' use in the beta would be some hilarious recursion (their rifles were far better at that point at long-range, so many people never upgraded their flamethrower). Might even work, too.
22 Sep 2015, 16:11 PM
#30
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Make them have an assault ability where thy can fire flamer on the love.
22 Sep 2015, 16:15 PM
#31
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Make them have an assault ability where thy can fire flamer on the love.

MAKE WAR, NOT LOVE!
22 Sep 2015, 16:18 PM
#32
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

Reasons to use Penals:

1) So apparently I am the only person in the universe who uses satchel charges...

Three of them will take out a set-up truck last time I checked, you won't always get the opportunity but no one likes having they and their teammates chase the enemy away from a Truck and then be able to do jackshit to it because all anyone has is small arms

Strategic bridge?

Bye Bye

Building you don't like?

BOOM


2) What else are you going to put in your M3 at the start of the game? All the other options are terrible.


3) They are a hell of lot better unit to put flamers on than engineers.
22 Sep 2015, 16:23 PM
#33
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2114 | Subs: 1

Reasons to use Penals:

1) So apparently I am the only person in the universe who uses satchel charges...

Three of them will take out a set-up truck last time I checked, you won't always get the opportunity but no one likes having they and their teammates chase the enemy away from a Truck and then be able to do jackshit to it because all anyone has is small arms

Strategic bridge?

Bye Bye

Building you don't like?

BOOM


2) What else are you going to put in your M3 at the start of the game? All the other options are terrible.


3) They are a hell of lot better unit to put flamers on than engineers.


well, i used penals a couple of times recently, and satchels never did anything to buildings. they didnt do any damage, even to little and medium wooden houses..

is this intended or a bug?

RELIC!
aaa
22 Sep 2015, 16:25 PM
#34
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2015, 13:20 PMBurts
So, we now agree that pretty much ALL stock army units are worth their cost and are worth buying in atleast some circumstances...
Except, Penals

imo
exept penals, SU76, ussualy M5 and T4/T34 (it was good in t3). M3 use is also questionable with 222 buff.
I would like to see unit that can operate behind enemy lines with camo fast kills etc. Soviets have enough infantry of all types off all ranges.
22 Sep 2015, 16:32 PM
#35
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2174 | Subs: 2

I never buy penal flamethrower:
- Flamethrower has engineers
- As already mentioned above, in the late game, flamethrower only worsens the penal

penal never had flame throwers, they are equipped as a regular shooters.

Penal need buff to long-range combat, the Soviets had too many close combat units.
22 Sep 2015, 16:46 PM
#36
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

please buff the penals! I feel like that entire tier is just awkward. Penals feel like they have no role in the game!
22 Sep 2015, 16:52 PM
#37
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

I'd prefer to see a massive buff and a price increase to make them more like a stock elite troop for the soviets. Enough so that they would function sort of like if shocks and guards had a baby. This would really open up some of the other soviet commanders that don't have call-in infantry. It would also give t1 more of a role as the infantry/assault tier compared to the t2 support tier.
22 Sep 2015, 17:13 PM
#38
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



well, i used penals a couple of times recently, and satchels never did anything to buildings. they didnt do any damage, even to little and medium wooden houses..

is this intended or a bug?

RELIC!


Satchel Charges are "technically" grenades and thus do less damage to buildings now because :foreveralone:

(They changed grenades to their own thing to stop it were grenades were doing massive damage buildings, as a side effect satchel's oomph has been reduced).

Strategic bridge?


All bridges got .2 received damage in a recent patch giving them 8000 health, so attempting to kill them via any means is an aggressive waste of time unless the thing your hitting it has a LOT of anti-building modifiers or has death crits against bridges or buildings.

Interestingly enough, the only two weapons in the game that have death crits against buildings/bridges are the demo charge and Sturmtiger! (Like if you even clip a bridge with a Sturmtiger shot it will instantly die, which I guess hashes out a new roll for it).
22 Sep 2015, 17:19 PM
#39
avatar of WFA_DoomTornado

Posts: 100

They beat grens, JLI, Sturmpios, Falls, Pgrens, Storms, ostruppen.... what else do you want.
22 Sep 2015, 17:47 PM
#40
avatar of Airborne

Posts: 281

They beat grens, JLI, Sturmpios, Falls, Pgrens, Storms, ostruppen.... what else do you want.

You are joking right?
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