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russian armor

USF Heavy weapons idea.

13 Sep 2015, 17:38 PM
#1
avatar of Loki

Posts: 96

Usf heavy weapons are in a bad place right now. I have an idea for this. It is my beleif that they should be in tier 0 and available after the first officer is purchaced.

There should be a upgrade for 20 fuel or so that gives all weapons team plus one member. AND they should get light weapons training that allows them to carry bar/Zook etc.

These methods would require the addition of a vehicle or two or an infantry unit.

M18 hell cat
Pathfinders
Half-track 3"
M5 halftrack
Grayhound
Wc51
Wc51 with 70mm
Calvary rifleman

All good candidates.

Please respond with an accompanying idea of how to fix said problem.
13 Sep 2015, 17:44 PM
#2
avatar of USFMain86

Posts: 27

Wc51 with m3 at gun would be nice
13 Sep 2015, 17:57 PM
#3
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Giving support weapons racks?

This would be awesome. Imagine an AT gun with dual bazookas, or a .50 Cal with two M1919s... amazing really.
13 Sep 2015, 18:00 PM
#4
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Giving support weapons racks?

This would be awesome. Imagine an AT gun with dual bazookas, or a .50 Cal with two M1919s... amazing really.
Hilarious sounding for sure, but contrary to the intent of weapon teams - excellent effectiveness against specific targets within firing arc when properly set-up at the cost of vulnerable when either of those is not the case. So, I can't agree with doing that.
13 Sep 2015, 18:04 PM
#5
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2015, 18:00 PMVuther
Hilarious sounding for sure, but contrary to the intent of weapon teams - excellent effectiveness against specific targets within firing arc when properly set-up at the cost of vulnerable when either of those is not the case. So, I can't agree with doing that.


It would be possible to give weapon team rack weapons a different profile. Close range damage from BARs could be limited, bazookas accuracy could be decreased, and so on.

I personally think this is an amazing idea.
13 Sep 2015, 18:05 PM
#6
avatar of Loki

Posts: 96

I was thinking the t13 3" would marry nicely with the flack track. Makeing a good tier for open maps.
13 Sep 2015, 18:06 PM
#7
avatar of Mackie

Posts: 254

can't we have a pak43 on a kubelwagon instead? :P
13 Sep 2015, 18:13 PM
#8
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
A commander with calv rifles and m18 hellcats triggers me.
13 Sep 2015, 18:16 PM
#9
avatar of Loki

Posts: 96

Only one weapon slot. Limited to zooks and bars only.
13 Sep 2015, 18:17 PM
#10
avatar of Remo

Posts: 111

Don't know why you guys would ever think Relic would make major changes to USF's build order or even add units into their buildings.

If they cared enough to fix USF for the better they would have done it already.

I'm still amazed they gave OKW a freaking tank as a permanent addition, but USF is still in the shape it is. I suppose it does make sense, they have always done more for Axis.

No freaking Kappa
13 Sep 2015, 19:40 PM
#11
avatar of Loki

Posts: 96

A commander with calv rifles and m18 hellcats triggers me.




Is this good?....or bad?
13 Sep 2015, 20:56 PM
#12
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2015, 19:40 PMLoki




Is this good?....or bad?


good.. very.... goood.
13 Sep 2015, 22:18 PM
#13
avatar of Contrivance

Posts: 165 | Subs: 2

You probably won't see weapon teams getting bazookas or BARs, since giving a slot_item weapon to a weapon team is bugged.

If you mod a weapon team to have a slot_item, it goes to the first man in the squad, and that person is also the gunner (If you give two, the second goes to the loader, if the weapon team has one). This causes one of two things:
1. You never see the slot_item and it doesn't get used. The gunner/loader is busy manning the weapon and his animations won't allow it to even show up.
2. The slot_item gets used, but the team weapon unpacks or disappears. The gunner/loader decides to switch to the slot_item on their own, and there's no way to force them to switch back. Plus their animations get all buggy.
13 Sep 2015, 22:35 PM
#14
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

You probably won't see weapon teams getting bazookas or BARs, since giving a slot_item weapon to a weapon team is bugged.

If you mod a weapon team to have a slot_item, it goes to the first man in the squad, and that person is also the gunner (If you give two, the second goes to the loader, if the weapon team has one). This causes one of two things:
1. You never see the slot_item and it doesn't get used. The gunner/loader is busy manning the weapon and his animations won't allow it to even show up.
2. The slot_item gets used, but the team weapon unpacks or disappears. The gunner/loader decides to switch to the slot_item on their own, and there's no way to force them to switch back. Plus their animations get all buggy.


You could give secondary members separate epbs with their own upgrades, and have clicking on the rack while in range upgrade that particular entity-icon under unit decorator could be done manually.
13 Sep 2015, 22:35 PM
#15
avatar of Coldtanks

Posts: 25

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2015, 18:17 PMRemo
Don't know why you guys would ever think Relic would make major changes to USF's build order or even add units into their buildings.

If they cared enough to fix USF for the better they would have done it already.

I'm still amazed they gave OKW a freaking tank as a permanent addition, but USF is still in the shape it is. I suppose it does make sense, they have always done more for Axis.

No freaking Kappa


I've already made a post about this, but where does this idea come from? You know USF is currently performing better in all brackets at a high level than OKW? and has almost always been stronger in 1v1.


13 Sep 2015, 22:53 PM
#16
avatar of Contrivance

Posts: 165 | Subs: 2



You could give secondary members separate epbs with their own upgrades, and have clicking on the rack while in range upgrade that particular entity-icon under unit decorator could be done manually.


Also not possible currently, since the modifier for adding additional members to a squad only supports adding more of the same EBP that's already there.

But if it were possible, this still has the unwanted behaviour of not being able to share the weapon; if that soldier dies, that bazooka/bar/m1919/etc. will disappear until he's reinforced back in. That makes the upgrade very random in effectiveness, as that soldier might be the first to die in a fight.


Not trying to say your idea is bad, since I tried something similar in CoH1 and CoH2 and ran into a brick wall with implementation. US weapon teams historically did have access to Bazookas, such that an M1917 HMG team or M1 81mm mortar team often carried one into battle for defense. M1 57mm gun teams were allocated one bazooka per team for close range defense against any tank that tried to assault and over-run their position. British 6-pounder teams carried a Bren for self-defense, and German anti-tank gun teams often were allocated an MG34 or MG42 LMG for defense as well.

Obviously Relic could probably rework the system to allow for it, but I don't know how deep they'd have to go to make it work.
nee
13 Sep 2015, 23:38 PM
#17
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

I don't know what you mean by them being in a "bad place".

Also, how does this "require" the addition of numerous light vehicles that can easily replace these heavy weapons into the non-doc build?
13 Sep 2015, 23:51 PM
#18
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891



Also not possible currently, since the modifier for adding additional members to a squad only supports adding more of the same EBP that's already there.

But if it were possible, this still has the unwanted behaviour of not being able to share the weapon; if that soldier dies, that bazooka/bar/m1919/etc. will disappear until he's reinforced back in. That makes the upgrade very random in effectiveness, as that soldier might be the first to die in a fight.


Not trying to say your idea is bad, since I tried something similar in CoH1 and CoH2 and ran into a brick wall with implementation. US weapon teams historically did have access to Bazookas, such that an M1917 HMG team or M1 81mm mortar team often carried one into battle for defense. M1 57mm gun teams were allocated one bazooka per team for close range defense against any tank that tried to assault and over-run their position. British 6-pounder teams carried a Bren for self-defense, and German anti-tank gun teams often were allocated an MG34 or MG42 LMG for defense as well.

Obviously Relic could probably rework the system to allow for it, but I don't know how deep they'd have to go to make it work.


I see. That would lead to issues similar to the bugged forward observers ability.

It's certainly a novel concept though and it's good that we both think relic should implement it.
14 Sep 2015, 00:35 AM
#19
avatar of Remo

Posts: 111



I've already made a post about this, but where does this idea come from? You know USF is currently performing better in all brackets at a high level than OKW? and has almost always been stronger in 1v1.




On the contrary, they may be doing OK in 1v1's but their success in 2v2's/3v3's/4v4's is not their own. They were one of the worst factions with the lowest win rates until a specific date arrived. Ever since that date they have the highest win-rates along with the Soviets, but this is all an obvious farce.

That date is September 3rd, British release day. They are riding the British coat-tales to victory currently. They are no way no how one of the best factions in the game. They are still one of the worst. Yet since the British are smashing Germans currently they are sneaking in a lot of victories. I just hope Relic can see this in their own data and realize all is still not well with the USF.

If you don't believe me just look at coh2chart.com. Look at team games and watch as their win-rates skyrocket on the 3rd of September. I mean it's pretty obvious.

As for their 1v1's, they aren't really the best, they are up and down all over the place just like the other factions. They are doing fine recently but it's no reason to say they are the best.
14 Sep 2015, 01:04 AM
#20
avatar of Coldtanks

Posts: 25

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2015, 00:35 AMRemo


On the contrary, they may be doing OK in 1v1's but their success in 2v2's/3v3's/4v4's is not their own. They were one of the worst factions with the lowest win rates until a specific date arrived. Ever since that date they have the highest win-rates along with the Soviets, but this is all an obvious farce.

That date is September 3rd, British release day. They are riding the British coat-tales to victory currently. They are no way no how one of the best factions in the game. They are still one of the worst. Yet since the British are smashing Germans currently they are sneaking in a lot of victories. I just hope Relic can see this in their own data and realize all is still not well with the USF.

If you don't believe me just look at coh2chart.com. Look at team games and watch as their win-rates skyrocket on the 3rd of September. I mean it's pretty obvious.

As for their 1v1's, they aren't really the best, they are up and down all over the place just like the other factions. They are doing fine recently but it's no reason to say they are the best.


I will completely agree with that although I disagree with the part about 2v2 success, before Brits they were not doing to bad in this bracket, with some solid double USF strategies available. As for 3v3 or 4v4, personally for me these are joke brackets that I can't take serious.

1v1 though they have been up and down, they have consistently been better than OKW. I'm not saying they are the best but to just say USF are weak and Relic favors Axis, when OKW has constantly under preformed in arguably the most competitive bracket and also arguably the main tournament bracket.

Despite that though if Relic did only care about Axis then OKW would not currently be under performing in all brackets.
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