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No tech demo just poor design.

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Should demos require fuel upgrade.
Option Distribution Votes
43%
46%
10%
Total votes: 157
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
10 May 2015, 06:56 AM
#1
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 579

I think relics decision to not make demos an upgrade is really beginning to emerge as a significant design flaw. I can understand why it wasn't required when the game was released due to the fact that grens were significantly stronger than cons and as such sovs were required to use multiple tactics and abilities to win.

But given the numerous changes to both grens and cons, and given the fact that cons now have the advantage over grens early game, it seems unjustified that sovs have access to something so powerful literally for free. I am not suggesting it be removed or nerfed since it does act as a blob deterrent. Usf should probably come under the same kind of requirement although their demos are doctrinal so it could be different to so degree.

I also do not need any advice regarding getting a sweeper. Early sov T2 means my first pio upgrade will be a flamer and pios cannot be everywhere.

If the advantage is to be gained setting an early demo then there should be a downside, its the philosophy coh was built on.

If you lose a squad within the first five mins as ost its virtually game over. The fact that you have only a random chance of preventing it just rubs more salt into the wound.


10 May 2015, 07:14 AM
#2
avatar of zimmozman

Posts: 32

quick question do you blob into these demo charges?
10 May 2015, 07:23 AM
#3
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Donator 11

Posts: 3040 | Subs: 14

Demo's should only be placable on Cover,buildings,or bridges,and a cost increase to 120ish
10 May 2015, 07:28 AM
#4
avatar of zimmozman

Posts: 32

^ that first part is a great idea but i feel the price increase is too much maybe just at a flat 100 muni instead of 90
10 May 2015, 07:38 AM
#5
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 579

quick question do you blob into these demo charges?


Once on on kharkov i got caught in one of the narrow gaps coming out of my base, 3 or 4 squads lost. Aside from that, i have never lost more than 1 squad to a demo in almost 2150 hours of coh2. My playstyle does not involve blobbing, but that is not the issue as I have already stated that i have no issue with it being used for blob control.

It is extremely effective against Ost early game because of the expensive tech requirements and the early manpower bleed due grens being weak on some maps early on..

I don't come across a lot of early demos, but when i do it usually means gg, and that to me seems kind of weak design..
10 May 2015, 08:24 AM
#6
avatar of SturmTigerGaddafi
Benefactor 355

Posts: 709 | Subs: 3

Demos have been fixed once relic included detonation by small arms fire. Getting minesweepers vs Soviet is a must anyways. Just get them a bit earlier.
10 May 2015, 08:56 AM
#7
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
Get sweepers

10 May 2015, 09:44 AM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13775 | Subs: 7

Mine sweepers too hard to use?
10 May 2015, 10:39 AM
#9
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 579

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2015, 09:44 AMKatitof
Mine sweepers too hard to use?


English too hard to read.

I am fairly certain that I made the point that i did not need advice regarding minesweepers. I know sweepers are the counter.

My point was the game has changed significantly since release to the point where it is hard to justify Engineers having the ability from minute 0 to build demos.If you have an intelligent point to make as to why Soviets should maintain this ability from the opening feel free to reply.
10 May 2015, 11:00 AM
#10
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13775 | Subs: 7

Changed significantly in what way? Cons and grens relations were pretty much always balanced, as they are now.
And demos are hardly early game stuff with current cost, which did not changed since day 1.

You didn't made any rational argument here, sorry, there is nothing to reply to that would hold a real value of why demos should be changed in any way.

They were already nerfed directly and indirectly multiple times.

Hell, I could just as well ask you why gren LMGs are not separate upgrade, after all "the game have changed much" since release, it would be as valid(pointless) reasoning as yours.
10 May 2015, 11:09 AM
#11
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 906

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2015, 09:44 AMKatitof
Mine sweepers too hard to use?
The thing is that as OKW you are going to have one minesweeper. Maybe two if you never lost a Sturmpio. Versus constant mine and demo spam this means you can only attack one point with your troops at once.

That is incredibly annoying and restricting.
10 May 2015, 11:52 AM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13775 | Subs: 7

That is incredibly annoying and restricting.

Just as fighting against units with stock weapon upgrades that require no side costs.

Different armies, different arsenals, blame relic for designing soviets to need to rely on stuff like that because conscripts are trash after 8th minute.

I'd much rather pumped that muni into con scaling, but relic won't give that to soviets, just like they won't nerf demos any further.
10 May 2015, 12:33 PM
#13
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 579

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2015, 11:00 AMKatitof
Changed significantly in what way? Cons and grens relations were pretty much always balanced, as they are now.
And demos are hardly early game stuff with current cost, which did not changed since day 1.

You didn't made any rational argument here, sorry, there is nothing to reply to that would hold a real value of why demos should be changed in any way.

They were already nerfed directly and indirectly multiple times.

Hell, I could just as well ask you why gren LMGs are not separate upgrade, after all "the game have changed much" since release, it would be as valid(pointless) reasoning as yours.


Really, this is your intelligent reply.

Grens, or ost t1 is nowhere near as strong as it was upon release. What about last year when grens could just be amoved everywhere and the only real counter was Flamer m3 or sov snipers. Demos have always been justified since countering OST could be difficult, however as soviets are clearly now the strongest faction there is obviously room for adjustment.

Demos were hardly nerfed. They were near on impossible to disarm almost to the point of being broken, the changes were more of an improvement rather than a nerf.

Comparing demos to LMGs to support your argument that i provide no valid reasoning does little but reinforce the perception that you are incapable of having a reasonable discussion due to your blind support of soviets, as well as your need to condescend to every other person on this forum.

Reply as you will, but try to stop flogging the same dead horse, its as boring as sov meta.
10 May 2015, 13:01 PM
#14
avatar of Chiro
Donator 11

Posts: 90

Fuel cost would probably be justified but with the callin meta
Demos with T3/T4??
Or Demos can only be placed at bridges and buildings?? (not cover)
10 May 2015, 13:05 PM
#15
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1017 | Subs: 1

i think that they should change demos so that they cant be activated when a sweeper is nearby.

other than that, such blobcounters are really needed in a blobheavy meta
10 May 2015, 13:53 PM
#16
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

I wish they'd put demo on a timer so it can't be used as a trap.

And Cardboard tank made a very good point. It's very restricting to have to wait for your sweepers to turn up so you can move and harrass. Single Allied units can move all over the map however they like without the same fear of being insta-wiped.

It really puts a damper on free-flowing back-n-forth tactics. And some of the fun that could be had with Real-sight is lost because you can't charge in somewhere to ambush a unit because you're too worried there could be a demo or RnG soviet mine. There almost always is :/
10 May 2015, 14:03 PM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13775 | Subs: 7

Single Allied units can move all over the map however they like without the same fear of being insta-wiped.

Never used OKW booby traps or abused the fact that units hitting mines do not stop and scatter anymore, making for easy kills on mine fields, because not even the best players constantly watch where their squads go at all times, huh?
10 May 2015, 14:09 PM
#18
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2609

Demo was intended to destroy stuff, but squadwiping.

If Relic decided to intend Demo for squadwiping, please give Axis back their Goliath.
10 May 2015, 14:15 PM
#19
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2015, 14:03 PMKatitof

Never used OKW booby traps or abused the fact that units hitting mines do not stop and scatter anymore, making for easy kills on mine fields, because not even the best players constantly watch where their squads go at all times, huh?


I've given up trying to answer your questions. You don't want to hear anything that challenges your opinion. You don't play all the armies so you can't understand what is being discussed.

Every time someone shows you're wrong, you change the subject or provoke people. You are in a restricted world where you refuse to take in new information and thus the things you know become twisted which subsequently warps your understanding.

I've never been out to get you or ruin CoH2 for you but you've always acted that way. So I'm done. You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong. This conversation here will almost certainly change nothing BUT the reason I talk is to learn new things and challenge my ideas.


So I'll be reading and replying to players who know what they're talking about who plays all sides. Feel free to ignore me too, I have no interest in anything you say anymore.
10 May 2015, 14:15 PM
#20
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2330 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2015, 14:03 PMKatitof

Never used OKW booby traps or abused the fact that units hitting mines do not stop and scatter anymore, making for easy kills on mine fields, because not even the best players constantly watch where their squads go at all times, huh?


I can tell you that OKW booby traps very rarely wipe full health allied squads. And comparing demo charges to S-mine fields is, even by your standards, a very pathetic attempt to rationalize a severely overpowered element of the Soviets.
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