Login

russian armor

OKW Op.... really?

PAGES (14)down
30 May 2015, 00:31 AM
#221
avatar of Jaedrik

Posts: 446 | Subs: 2

The old Hebrew word to forgive literally means to forget.
And that is the best thing to possibly do.
The sins of the past do not justify the sins of the future.
Thus, imbalance now is never justified by the imbalance of the past.
Even though it's a far more trivial and inconsequential thing than moral philosophy. Game imbalance is a pretty neutral thing, I'd say. :D
Still, to hate a faction, or to want some sort of 'justice' against them is an unhealthy characteristic.
30 May 2015, 00:33 AM
#222
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 May 2015, 00:31 AMJaedrik
The old Hebrew word to forgive literally means to forget.

But then what will they have learned!?

:D
30 May 2015, 03:32 AM
#223
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1256

jump backJump back to quoted post20 May 2015, 17:32 PMNosliw
Good gracious I sure hope Relic doesn't ever read the endless idiotic posts made on this forum by the abundance of noobs that play this poorly designed and easy to play game.

What ever happened to the days when competitive 1v1 and 2v2 players were able to dissect the minute problems in a game and were able to provide well thought-out feedback and balance ideas to the game developers? I guess when you create a game that caters to being casual for the 80% of the players instead of the top 20%, this is what you get.


Well, Paul provided a well thought-out post where he argued to bring back truck-pushing.....

Maybe, just maybe, Relic shouldn't have designed a faction where all of the units were a little too efficient and then tried to balance it by giving that faction a resource penalty, which results in the faction being balanced for 4v4 or balanced for 1v1, but never both at the same time.
30 May 2015, 11:07 AM
#224
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 665

Keeping the " future " patches in mind its best to put the obers in the med bunker and reduce the mp to 320. common 50 mp for a beefier gren is nuts.
6 Jun 2015, 11:07 AM
#225
avatar of pussyking
Donator 11

Posts: 551

OPKW is still OP becouse of Shrek volks
6 Jun 2015, 11:24 AM
#226
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593

OPKW is still OP becouse of Shrek volks


Let me remind of you:

- Nerfed long range acc on shrecks.
- Shocks; IS-2; Katy; 120; KV-8; M8A1; double M1919s + Def Stance; Demos; etc...
6 Jun 2015, 11:55 AM
#227
avatar of Smaug

Posts: 326



Let me remind of you:

- Nerfed long range acc on shrecks.
- Shocks; IS-2; Katy; 120; KV-8; M8A1; double M1919s + Def Stance; Demos; etc...

you forgot HE shermans. They are way too much to be in etc category.
6 Jun 2015, 12:10 PM
#228
avatar of Squeaky Door 96

Posts: 192

Permanently Banned
Mines demos anyone? It is the death sentence for OKW..

It always makes me cringe to see a squad get blown up by a lost mine or demo charge
6 Jun 2015, 15:05 PM
#229
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jun 2015, 11:55 AMSmaug

you forgot HE shermans. They are way too much to be in etc category.


I think OP doesn't have 'nough micro to kite shreck blobs. :D
8 Jun 2015, 14:56 PM
#230
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1364

OKW is not bad as it was last path. I am happy playing with OKW and fighting OKW. P.S. yesterday my two vet 5 Obers got wiped by a miss shot from B4 to my Panther, FML.
9 Jun 2015, 11:23 AM
#231
avatar of daathus

Posts: 14

Permanently Banned
OKW is an ill thought out faction that decries tactics and cohesion in favour of gratuitous unit design. The feeling that no direction was formed with the faction design is totally apparent, and reinforced when one looks back on it's development which was wrought with sweeping changes.

But this is our lot, and we should all agree that such a faction is better to be left somewhat UP rather than OP, lest we see the swathes of thoughtless players that rely on the two hit Obersoldaten and Volksgrenadiere combo, that were so common until recently, back in business.

A cheesy strategy is frustrating to play against, and it can be defined as a strategy that:

-is very simple to pull off
-relies on innate unit mechanics and metagaming rather than deft play
-forces the opponent to work hard to defeat it

Which, I will argue, was the OKW playstyle in essence, and all that patches have done is diminish this, and I am extremely glad of it.
9 Jun 2015, 12:52 PM
#232
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

OKW is an ill thought out faction that decries tactics and cohesion in favour of gratuitous unit design. The feeling that no direction was formed with the faction design is totally apparent, and reinforced when one looks back on it's development which was wrought with sweeping changes.

But this is our lot, and we should all agree that such a faction is better to be left somewhat UP rather than OP, lest we see the swathes of thoughtless players that rely on the two hit Obersoldaten and Volksgrenadiere combo, that were so common until recently, back in business.

A cheesy strategy is frustrating to play against, and it can be defined as a strategy that:

-is very simple to pull off
-relies on innate unit mechanics and metagaming rather than deft play
-forces the opponent to work hard to defeat it

Which, I will argue, was the OKW playstyle in essence, and all that patches have done is diminish this, and I am extremely glad of it.


Honestly those three traits sound like an ideal strategy. Anyone with an interest in victory makes strategies that are simple, force your opponent to work, and can be pulled off without great difficulty. As someone who ignores meta whenever possible (to this day I avoid call-in armor whenever possible), all of my most common strategies fit your description.

Personally, I would define a cheese a strategy as something that only works because your opponent isn't expecting it, and would be easily defeated if it wasn't so far out of left field. Like for example starting with an army of all helicopters in Wargame and rushing your opponent's spawn; it's a terrible strategy that would never work in a real fight, but because a balanced army is designed to counter many different things it stands no chance against such concentrated air power.

Defining cheese is hard, because if you look at the traits that make a cheese strategy and one that makes a good strategy they're basically the same. Cheese strategies have to be effective by definition, after all. It's a fine line, but I guess the defining trait of cheese is that it just isn't fun to play against.
9 Jun 2015, 12:56 PM
#233
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

OPKW is still OP becouse of Shrek volks


9 Jun 2015, 13:08 PM
#234
avatar of daathus

Posts: 14

Permanently Banned
Honestly those three traits sound like an ideal strategy.


But this is a game, and skill and effort should be rewarded.
9 Jun 2015, 13:21 PM
#235
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176



But this is a game, and skill and effort should be rewarded.


One could argue that a strategy game should reward superior strategic decisions over "effort." Work smarter, not harder, right?

Your average meta abuser will tell you that you're dumb for not abusing the meta, and from his "win at any cost" viewpoint he'd be right. From the perspective of a battle of wits, whoever wins is smarter, because he picked the winning strategy. The most you could say to undermine him is that he lost the moral victory because he was "abusing" a strategy, but the fact remains that you could've beaten him if you'd played a little better, or allowed yourself to also abuse meta.

It's a trade-off, really. You refuse to abuse meta, and in return you get to feel superior whenever someone else embraces it.
9 Jun 2015, 13:37 PM
#236
avatar of daathus

Posts: 14

Permanently Banned


One could argue that a strategy game should reward superior strategic decisions over "effort." Work smarter, not harder, right?

Your average meta abuser will tell you that you're dumb for not abusing the meta, and from his "win at any cost" viewpoint he'd be right. From the perspective of a battle of wits, whoever wins is smarter, because he picked the winning strategy. The most you could say to undermine him is that he lost the moral victory because he was "abusing" a strategy, but the fact remains that you could've beaten him if you'd played a little better, or allowed yourself to also abuse meta.

It's a trade-off, really. You refuse to abuse meta, and in return you get to feel superior whenever someone else embraces it.


So you are willing to argue that there should always be ways of playing that offer high reward with little risk and minimal effort, and this is just a de facto element of Company of Heroes?
9 Jun 2015, 14:04 PM
#237
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128



I think OP doesn't have 'nough micro to kite shreck blobs. :D

I'm the OP and I was vouching for OKW mind you. Shreck blobs are not that hard to counter.
9 Jun 2015, 14:28 PM
#238
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176



So you are willing to argue that there should always be ways of playing that offer high reward with little risk and minimal effort, and this is just a de facto element of Company of Heroes?


Not that there should be perse, but also not that there shouldn't be.

Some strategies are just plain better than others, and it's like that in almost every competitive game. If you pick a strategy which is weak to the meta and get beaten by that meta, you can't really blame anyone but yourself for the loss.
14 Jun 2015, 14:34 PM
#239
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

I'd like to add to this thread on vehicles too. Why does it feel like its so hard to get a panther out and enough of them to fight back allied armor numbers? I'm noticing a pigeon hole trend that seems to fall into panthers and volks for AT. The rakten works ok for defense but offensively its a waste of mp.I would say OKW doesnt have any issue handling infantry with its tools but there must be a better middle ground for AT than full on volks with panthers.
14 Jun 2015, 16:52 PM
#240
avatar of Tea Maker Machine

Posts: 270

You are wrong storm. OKW is having trouble in terms of AI. They are solely focused on AT. Rak43, Pak43, shrecks, JpIV, Puma.


Volks don't seem to hit anything at all, obers are expensive and available too late, sturms drop like flies etc.

You don't have to worry about thonks however, just build 2 Rak43s and push back all kind of medium vehicles. Build a pak43 when you feel like it and lol at any vehicles almost getting one shotted.
PAGES (14)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
Thank you everyone for making WCS possible!
Event in Progress

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • The British Forces flag [c.B] Guard2707
  • Soviets flag [c.B] Brosras
  • Oberkommando West flag 女性主意
  • Ostheer flag 101 Airborne Divison
uploaded by koreanmaphack

Board Info

242 users are online: 7 members and 235 guests
MMX, Cresc, RagnarTheGamer, aboud_ama, NorthFireZ, HelpingHans, LeChimp
148 posts in the last 24h
1417 posts in the last week
7073 posts in the last month
Registered members: 65797
Welcome our newest member, Ingegnerise9
Most online: 918 users on 27 Oct 2019, 01:03 AM