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Five man grenadier squads are exactly what Ostheer need.

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11 Mar 2015, 03:47 AM
#1
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742 | Subs: 1

It was the first change that I made in the Mod Tools, and I was amazed at how nicely the change impacted the game.

Ostheer finally had a decently survivable infantry unit and it wasn't that much more powerful. And besides, the Ostheer still had to pay for it. The squad's cost was 280 manpower, it took longer to build, and the extra entity to reinforce added up. Interestingly enough, they were amazingly more resilient (but certainly not immune) to being wiped in a single shell blast.

All it was was a single value change, and man did it seriously improve the sense of balance.

As such, I decided I would make a very simple mod so that people can see for themselves.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=405996712

It changes two whole values. It increases the squad loadout of Grenadier squads from 4 to 5, and the Grenadiers that come with an lmg42 in a halftrack from 4 to 5.

I know I could argue up and down as to what changes should or shouldn't be made to balance CoH2, like I have many a time since beta, but I'd rather just make an easy, straightforward and accessible mod so people can just try for themselves how the change might actually impact the game.

While I honestly think this is a change that Relic should consider for the Ostheer, what do you all think? Especially from those people that exclusively play a single faction or side.
11 Mar 2015, 04:22 AM
#2
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Donator 11

Posts: 3040 | Subs: 14

Did you nerf K98 damage to compensate for the xtra man as well?
11 Mar 2015, 04:31 AM
#3
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

Did you nerf K98 damage to compensate for the xtra man as well?


that and conscripts need to be compensated in some way for this
11 Mar 2015, 05:32 AM
#4
avatar of SuperSonicFan

Posts: 14



that and conscripts need to be compensated in some way for this


Apparently a few patches ago they increased Conscript received accuracy to ABOVE 1, so bullets HOME IN on them. I think remove this and Conscripts would be accounted for. IMO make Kar98 slightly less potent, give Grens 5 men, make Conscripts not die so easily, Ost and Soviet problems solved for most part.

Then we have OKW...
11 Mar 2015, 05:46 AM
#5
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

Did you nerf K98 damage to compensate for the xtra man as well?


If you read OP, it says 280mp is the new cost for the squad. So it doesn't sound like it.
11 Mar 2015, 06:06 AM
#6
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

I think maybe increasing their hp might be good from my knowledge all units have 80 hp and I dont think relic would do this but giving them a hp increase of 15-20 would allow them to survive more easily, most rifles do about 16-18 damage so they can survive an extra shot or 2
11 Mar 2015, 06:50 AM
#7
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

I think the change is interesting and 280 price may justify the 5th man. It's one way to balance things maybe, but my personal opinion is that from all factions ostheer relies on combined arms so all fixes should probably go in this direction. What I want to say is buff hmg42, that would be more appropriate in my conception.
11 Mar 2015, 07:35 AM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13773 | Subs: 7

I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.

Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
11 Mar 2015, 07:49 AM
#9
avatar of kamk
Donator 11

Posts: 764

What about scaling and especially veterancy?
And PGrens?
And what's gonna happen with a plain old Osttruppen / CAS Gren spam?

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2015, 07:35 AMKatitof
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.

Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.

Agreed... sadly.
11 Mar 2015, 08:43 AM
#10
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369

My problem with that is that I feel it would ruin the whole gren - conscript matchup which actually is pretty balanced (and still in favor of grens due to LMGs). Then again, you did make them more expensive.

I'd rather see changes to other units though, I don't like it when simply spamming base infantry is the best option for any faction.
11 Mar 2015, 08:46 AM
#11
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1665 | Subs: 2

if its a 5 man squad then it SHOULD cost 300mp because each grenadier entity is currently worth 60mp in stats.

you cant just add an extra entity and also slash the price on the squad without reducing some stats on the grendier entity.

also 5 man gren squad won't fix their issues. Their teching costs need to be adjusted and some or the underwhelming units need a bit of a buff (222, sniper etc.)
11 Mar 2015, 08:46 AM
#12
avatar of tuvok
Benefactor 115

Posts: 786

Ost have 99 problems but Grens ain't one
11 Mar 2015, 09:24 AM
#13
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1051 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2015, 08:43 AMCptEend

I'd rather see changes to other units though, I don't like it when simply spamming base infantry is the best option for any faction.


This. Giving Grenadiers a fith man would be the wrong approach because the problems with this faction lie elsewhere. The inability of the MG42 to supress, the sniper beeing knocked out by just looking at it, the lack of proper maps for Ostheer, the overpriced teching along with the usual bad early game for them, ...

I like the 4 man Grenadier squad. It actually feels a bit historically acurate and unique and makes infantry engagements very tactical as you have to care about each member, rather than just moving my blob of 5 model Volks forward. Ostheer is designed as a faction which relies heavily of combined arms and I'd like to keep it that way (in fact more factions should be like that).
11 Mar 2015, 10:43 AM
#14
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

What else option is there?mg42 is balls-any change suggestiions and instapin cries,and relic won't change pzgrens coz apparently they overperform,nor will they give ost elite infantry...so yeah..grens 5 man...If u can't beat them,join them.Blob.
11 Mar 2015, 11:23 AM
#15
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2009 | Subs: 1

5man gren squads would break Conscripts.

5man LMG Grens running everywhere lategame.

Buff MG42, Sniper may need some reduced received accuracy, 222 maybe a slight DPS buff, definetly reduce tech costs, tie call ins to tech.

Yay Ostheer fixed
11 Mar 2015, 11:29 AM
#16
avatar of Ztormi

Posts: 249

What else option is there?mg42 is balls-any change suggestiions and instapin cries,and relic won't change pzgrens coz apparently they overperform,nor will they give ost elite infantry...so yeah..grens 5 man...If u can't beat them,join them.Blob.


You sound like a little boy whose candy bar has been stolen, every single post. Get a fucking grip mate.

I really would like to see small buff for MG42. In my dreams bike makes a comeback as a tier0 recon unit.
11 Mar 2015, 11:30 AM
#17
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

5man gren squads would break Conscripts.

5man LMG Grens running everywhere lategame.

Buff MG42, Sniper may need some reduced received accuracy, 222 maybe a slight DPS buff, definetly reduce tech costs, tie call ins to tech.

Yay Ostheer fixed
Flame 251? :foreveralone:
11 Mar 2015, 11:44 AM
#18
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2009 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2015, 11:30 AMsteel
Flame 251? :foreveralone:


I mean, i love hipster units.

But 251 flamer is so meaningless by now, even i forgot it :foreveralone:

Its more than extinct, its erased from our memory.
11 Mar 2015, 11:51 AM
#19
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13773 | Subs: 7



I mean, i love hipster units.

But 251 flamer is so meaningless by now, even i forgot it :foreveralone:

Its more than extinct, its erased from our memory.

Somewhere in the corner M-42 cries in sorrow.
11 Mar 2015, 11:54 AM
#20
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2015, 11:51 AMKatitof

Somewhere in the corner M-42 cries in sorrow.
"Cheer up, man" - IR Halftrack
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