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12 Mar 2015, 00:18 AM
#141
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 1

Flak HQ: Why should OKW's most important building in the game be defenseless?

Shreks: We have had 3 threads about this, until OKW gets more mobile AT or not shit infantry AT options shreks are going to be a crutch OKW needs

For the same reason everyone else can only use bunkers to cover territory.

I don't think anyone has a problem with Raketens not be trash if Schreck spam gets its deserved nerfs since that would solve two problems at once.
12 Mar 2015, 00:19 AM
#142
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300



Why should a 320 MP assault engineer squad have 170 MP repairs?



answered your own question......
12 Mar 2015, 00:21 AM
#143
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 00:18 AMVuther

For the same reason everyone else can only use bunkers to cover territory.

I don't think anyone has a problem with Raketens not be trash if Schreck spam gets its deserved nerfs since that would solve two problems at once.


The Schwer was designed to be how it us because T3 is incredibly important for OKW, if you removed the good units inside of it I don't think people would give a shit about nerfing it.

EDIT: and Yeah the Rackten being good would go a long way towards make Shrek's not nearly as needed as they are now.

answered your own question......


So I'm right? Okay.
12 Mar 2015, 00:25 AM
#144
avatar of AssaultPlazma

Posts: 300

Im okay when Sturmpioneers having an above average repair rate, but its just absurd in its current state given vet and minesweeper upgrade.
12 Mar 2015, 00:26 AM
#145
avatar of Vuther
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Posts: 3094 | Subs: 1

The Schwer was designed to be how it us because T3 is incredibly important for OKW

Then they can build it in their base instead of basically being guaranteed to shut down a large part of the map in their favour because their base can easily hold off an entire medium tank, completely ignoring the rest of their forces' ability to aid it.
12 Mar 2015, 00:30 AM
#146
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 00:26 AMVuther

Then they can build it in their base instead of basically being guaranteed to shut down a large part of the map in their favour because their base can easily hold off an entire medium tank, completely ignoring the rest of their forces' ability to aid it.


Sight for your taaaaaaaaanks. It can shut down a VP and fuel if your lucky on some maps, others you won't have the map presence to be so aggressive with it.

I would be more than happy with it losing the ability to damage medium armor if it could still kill lights and I could control the goddamn gun so it doesn't shoot the ground.

Im okay when Sturmpioneers having an above average repair rate, but its just absurd in its current state given vet and minesweeper upgrade.


The reason they have a good repair rate is because you can't spam sturmpio's like you can with USF or Soviets for repairs.

If Sturms were cheaper then yeah they shouldn't have a good repair rate, but they are quite expensive to make and reinforce so I don't see why it's an issue at the current time.
12 Mar 2015, 00:36 AM
#147
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


The Schwer was designed to be how it us because T3 is incredibly important for OKW, if you removed the good units inside of it I don't think people would give a shit about nerfing it.



Bullshit

Volks can keep thier shreks

But two things MUST change

those being FLak HQ and OBers

Flak HQ under-minds the entire purpose of coh2. Which is to harass ur opponent by grabbing cutoffs and territories. You cant possibly defend this. Flak HQ negates the entire purpose of harrasing. It also threatens medium tanks. it makes NO fucking sense that it can force a way units that cost way more than it.

Lastley OBERS, they completely negate allies infantry combat. This is whyy OKW fanboys complain about snipers. Because nothing allies have ( besides shock, very situation) stand a chance to these monsters.

If obers get nerf, allied infantry can deal with volkesd shreks (theoretically)

12 Mar 2015, 00:36 AM
#148
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3042 | Subs: 14

Toned down as in

Sturm Repair isnt an issue. T4 flak isnt an issue.

Shrek accuracy at max range, Volks received accuracy bonuses with vet,blobs being blobs,and obers sniping MGs frontally are the main issues with OKW. everything else thats an issue is just an issue because these things are an issue. Panthers arent Op,Luchs isnt OP,Forward bases arent OP,Stuka IS NOT OP but can be tweaked to not be as ANNOYINGLY accurate as it is,Flak HT moving and setting up is a prob,Puma vet 0 smoke is somewhat a prob,Falls need something....they suck at high levels and are too OP at low level. Maybe vet 0 camo and a somewhat cheap FG42 upgrade with hold fire. Pak43 and Flak HQ combo needs to be LOOKED at(not nerfed off the map)
12 Mar 2015, 00:37 AM
#149
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

Im okay when Sturmpioneers having an above average repair rate, but its just absurd in its current state given vet and minesweeper upgrade.


I find regular pioneers / engineers better because of flame-throwers. Their are some pretty good pro's to the sp's no doubt about it but also some very great cons.
12 Mar 2015, 00:37 AM
#150
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 00:37 AMJaigen


I find regular pioneers / engineers better


Said no one ever
12 Mar 2015, 00:39 AM
#151
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Toned down as in

Sturm Repair isnt an issue. T4 flak isnt an issue.

Shrek accuracy at max range, Volks received accuracy bonuses with vet,blobs being blobs,and obers sniping MGs frontally are the main issues with OKW. everything else thats an issue is just an issue because these things are an issue. Panthers arent Op,Luchs isnt OP,Forward bases arent OP,Stuka IS NOT OP but can be tweaked to not be as ANNOYINGLY accurate as it is,Flak HT moving and setting up is a prob,Puma vet 0 smoke is somewhat a prob,Falls need something....they suck at high levels and are too OP at low level. Maybe vet 0 camo and a somewhat cheap FG42 upgrade with hold fire. Pak43 and Flak HQ combo needs to be LOOKED at(not nerfed off the map)


Stuka getting spread like every other artillery piece would be nice, so it does a lot of damage in a circle, but isn't a perfectly accurate creeping barrage which add's a fair amount to your range.

How is Flak HT moving a setting up an issue? if you use attack move with it then it will often bug out and set up 2-3 times. I always stop it and set up, and also use attack ground.

Puma vet 0 smoke is silly, I agree, still not that big on an issue, Fallsch are kinda wonky and fall off late game due to lack of good vet buffs.

Pak43 + medic combo is far, far, more potent than Pak43 + Flak HQ.
12 Mar 2015, 00:40 AM
#152
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



Bullshit

Volks can keep thier shreks

But two things MUST change

those being FLak HQ and OBers

Flak HQ under-minds the entire purpose of coh2. Which is to harass ur opponent by grabbing cutoffs and territories. You cant possibly defend this. Flak HQ negates the entire purpose of harrasing. It also threatens medium tanks. it makes NO fucking sense that it can force a way units that cost way more than it.

Lastley OBERS, they completely negate allies infantry combat. This is whyy OKW fanboys complain about snipers. Because nothing allies have ( besides shock, very situation) stand a chance to these monsters.

If obers get nerf, allied infantry can deal with volkesd shreks (theoretically)



Try to play a game for me with just volks. see how you will get.
12 Mar 2015, 00:43 AM
#153
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



Said no one ever


Lol try to fight in la gleize without flamethrowers its a lot of fun for the ami's and okw
12 Mar 2015, 00:44 AM
#154
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 00:40 AMJaigen


Try to play a game for me with just volks. see how you will get.


What?

this is the best you can do?

Obers need a nurf.. Period end of dicussion

as for volks, LEarn how to build sandbag and support ur inf...

AH fuck iT!

not wasting my time with you
12 Mar 2015, 00:46 AM
#155
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 1



Sight for your taaaaaaaaanks. It can shut down a VP and fuel if your lucky on some maps, others you won't have the map presence to be so aggressive with it.

Sight for them to do what? It has enough range to hit frontline tanks back whenever they shoot at it and it quickly pins and wrecks any infantry that dare spot it. Pretty much the only reliable way to take it down is to feint the enemy force's onto another side of the map and then rush all your tanks into it - probably with an expensive arty call-in on it for insurance. There's no hope without horribly disproportionate forces upon it if it has pretty much any AT defenders with it - and if the OKW player has their T1 nearby it, they'll certainly have AT defenders soon enough when the Schreck blob presses R.

And I mean in team games. In 1v1 you're basically screwed unless your enemy just can't pay attention to it, in which if they can't then you can just kill it with SU-85s and Jacksons firing on its location at max range, but since your enemy apparently just can't pay attention for you to do that, that method pretty much doesn't count.
12 Mar 2015, 00:49 AM
#156
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 00:46 AMVuther

Sight for them to do what? It has enough range to hit frontline tanks back whenever they shoot at it and it quickly pins and wrecks any infantry that dare spot it. Pretty much the only reliable way to take it down is to feint the enemy force's onto another side of the map and then rush all your tanks into it - probably with an expensive arty call-in on it for insurance. There's no hope without horribly disproportionate forces upon it if it has pretty much any AT defenders with it - and if the OKW player has their T1 nearby it, they'll certainly have AT defenders soon enough when the Schreck blob presses R.

And I mean in team games. In 1v1 you're basically screwed unless your enemy just can't pay attention to it, in which if they can't then you can just kill it with SU-85s and Jacksons firing on its location at max range, but since your enemy apparently just can't pay attention for you to do that, that method pretty much doesn't count.


In 2's and anything higher it's easier to take down, but if you use a scouting unit like Pathfinders or an M20 you can get a look at it outside it's max range, and then shoot at it outside it's max range using something like a Sherman.

Or use an AT gun, or use a mortars....

American's have a harder time dealing with it than Soviets, but it's still not impossible.
12 Mar 2015, 01:07 AM
#157
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 1



In 2's and anything higher it's easier to take down, but if you use a scouting unit like Pathfinders or an M20 you can get a look at it outside it's max range, and then shoot at it outside it's max range using something like a Sherman.

Or use an AT gun, or use a mortars....

American's have a harder time dealing with it than Soviets, but it's still not impossible.

All frontline tanks (save for the Panther, I guess), heavy or medium, have a range of 40. The Flak HQ has a range of 45. Only tank destroyers can hope to achieve what you suggest since any infantry unit can run by for the Flak HQ for it to see its target before it gets destroyed because it's a super tough building unless, again, you are using a disproportionate force of tanks against it...and I think I recall that units can shoot back at stuff firing out of the fog of war so long as they're in range from units revealing themselves out of the fog of war when they fire, so it might not even need that one infantry unit. And doing that with a tank destroyer still largely requires a ton of them unless the enemy completely doesn't notice that's happening, much like the AT gun and mortar suggestion.
12 Mar 2015, 01:15 AM
#158
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128



What?

this is the best you can do?

Obers need a nurf.. Period end of dicussion

as for volks, LEarn how to build sandbag and support ur inf...

AH fuck iT!

not wasting my time with you




Excuse me if I misread you but are you only talking of using volks on defense? Cause going offense and trying to make sandbag =sad volks. I think he was going for if you only had volks to use and no obers.
12 Mar 2015, 01:24 AM
#159
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2015, 01:07 AMVuther

All frontline tanks (save for the Panther, I guess), heavy or medium, have a range of 40. The Flak HQ has a range of 45. Only tank destroyers can hope to achieve what you suggest since any infantry unit can run by for the Flak HQ for it to see its target before it gets destroyed because it's a super tough building unless, again, you are using a disproportionate force of tanks against it...and I think I recall that units can shoot back at stuff firing out of the fog of war so long as they're in range from units revealing themselves out of the fog of war when they fire, so it might not even need that one infantry unit. And doing that with a tank destroyer still largely requires a ton of them unless the enemy completely doesn't notice that's happening, much like the AT gun and mortar suggestion.


Shooting at the Schwer with a indirect fire unit plus an AT gun mean's dead Schwer because you will gib the unit he is trying to repair with it, and if tries to push you just dig your heels in and stop him using suppression platforms combined with some mainline infantry.

Not to mention when you figure out were the schwer is you don't need to sight for AT guns to hit it, or tank destroyers with 60 range (The Jackson and SU-85).

Regardless I don't think it should damage mediums either, but it should be able to be controlled by the player.
12 Mar 2015, 01:36 AM
#160
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 1



Shooting at the Schwer with a indirect fire unit plus an AT gun mean's dead Schwer because you will gib the unit he is trying to repair with it, and if tries to push you just dig your heels in and stop him using suppression platforms combined with some mainline infantry.

That reminds me, the poor unknowing bastard playing Soviet T1->T3 against OKW is entirely doomed when the Schwerer sets down. It's like if the Ostheer had to go against the Jackson without realistically expecting to be able to get AT guns.

If only the SU-76( :foreveralone: )'s barrage was actually good.
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